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  1. #41
    Secondary Hivemind Nexus gundato's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Sparkasaurusmex View Post
    I want a way to LAN games with my family by purchasing them only once. Any idea if that is an intended use of this? It's probably only going to allow you to play a game on one account at a time, huh? So for me this is already possible since we can just log into the same account on different machines. Not at the same time, but why would we need to do that if we can't play together anyway?
    Well, that isn't what this is for at all. This is to give people what they claimed to always used to do: Let you loan a game to a friend. So if I give my friend my copy of Crash Bandicoot, I can't play it while he has it and I can't do the non-existent multiplayer with him.

    What you are thinking of was how people used to illegally install copies of games on everyone's computers (and then just use cracks) or the spawning that some games (did anyone other than Blizzard do it?) that was used for multiplayer.
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  2. #42
    Secondary Hivemind Nexus Sparkasaurusmex's Avatar
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    Yeah, Blizzard did that with Diablo (? maybe it was Warcraft 2) and some other games. Minecraft worked like that (unpaid users could still LAN with a paid user, all using the software downloaded for that account) but it doesn't since the latest update. It would be awesome if LAN games were like that...buy once, everyone plays in the same house. Local multiplayer solves this for most games.

  3. #43
    Secondary Hivemind Nexus gundato's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Sparkasaurusmex View Post
    Yeah, Blizzard did that with Diablo (? maybe it was Warcraft 2) and some other games. Minecraft worked like that (unpaid users could still LAN with a paid user, all using the software downloaded for that account) but it doesn't since the latest update. It would be awesome if LAN games were like that...buy once, everyone plays in the same house. Local multiplayer solves this for most games.
    The problem is that so many people know how to use things like Hamachi and what not these days. Plus, most publishers (and devs) want to push that "community" aspect by encouraging pubbing and leaderboards and unlocks and the like.

    And honestly, I am kind of okay with that push. As much as I abhor pubbing in most games, I have to admit it is a lot better than it used to be. It used to be that you NEEDED to have a friendly clanserver and a group of friends to hang out with, otherwise you would have nothing but the little shits that populated Counterstrike. Now? While we all bitch and moan over the "Ha ha ha, you are homosexual" kids, they are really the minority in most games (and the better gaming communities tend to tell them to "fuck off" or just votekick them), mainly because those bastions of safety and sanity are greatly de-emphasized. So it makes playing a game in MP much less of a commitment as I can, more or less, connect to any server and expect a decent time. Obviously having a favorite server is still great for the small community aspect, but it is no longer a requirement.
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  4. #44
    Secondary Hivemind Nexus Sparkasaurusmex's Avatar
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    I'm all for the idea of trading with friends, just like I used to do with console carts. I just think it'd be awesome if we could have these spawned LAN games. They don't have single player, they don't work in online multiplayer, they only work over LAN with a complete version of the game hosting.

  5. #45
    Network Hub alset85's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Sparkasaurusmex View Post
    I'm all for the idea of trading with friends, just like I used to do with console carts. I just think it'd be awesome if we could have these spawned LAN games. They don't have single player, they don't work in online multiplayer, they only work over LAN with a complete version of the game hosting.
    Agree with this 100% and I can't believe gundato is defending the removal of LAN and dedicated servers in PC games. Pubbing is still garbage and hasn't gotten any better. Maybe you just grew accustomed to it.
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  6. #46
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    Quote Originally Posted by alset85 View Post
    Agree with this 100% and I can't believe gundato is defending the removal of LAN and dedicated servers in PC games. Pubbing is still garbage and hasn't gotten any better. Maybe you just grew accustomed to it.
    Depends on the game in question. I play NS2 and I encounter trashtalk bi-annually.

  7. #47
    Well, I wouldn't care about not being able to use LAN with a single copy if PC versions of games received as much local multiplayer games as consoles, but it's not the case. For some reason, most developers "forget" about local multiplayer saying we can use LAN. That would be great, if we didn't have to buy two (or more) copies to do so.

    Look at Minecraft, for example. 360's version has local multiplayer, split-screen, for which you only need one copy. PC version doesn't have so, because, well, LAN is much more confortable, OK. But why am I supposed to pay 20 more to play with a friend, when Xbox players only have to buy a copy? It doesn't make any sense. Give me either local multiplayer or LAN with a single copy.

    Anyway, back on topic, I don't think Family Sharing is as good as it might be, but it's a step forward, for sure. As some of you have said, it could be a bit dangerous for indie devs, so I hope they make the right restrictions, but... Well, we'll see. This could be great if taken in the right direction.

  8. #48
    Secondary Hivemind Nexus Sparkasaurusmex's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by mouton View Post
    Depends on the game in question. I play NS2 and I encounter trashtalk bi-annually.
    That's probably a unique sample. NS2 has an uncommonly good community.

  9. #49
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    Ole days of LANs. Getting games Empire Earth and various other RTS going. See who could no kill in Hitman. Homeworld multiplayer. Definitely sold me on trying future games in various series.

    The problem with the lock out is Steam is used by many for instant messaging platform and not just gaming. I don't want to be locked out of Steam friend list while a friend wants to play a game of mine.

    Hopefully that is not the case and they make some good changes during the Beta.

  10. #50
    Secondary Hivemind Nexus gundato's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by AlexClockwork View Post
    Well, I wouldn't care about LAN with a single copy if PC versions of games received as much local multiplayer games as consoles, but it's not the case. For some reason, most developers "forget" about local multiplayer saying we can use LAN. That would be great, if we didn't have to buy two (or more) copies to do so.

    Look at Minecraft, for example. 360's version has local multiplayer, split-screen, for which you only need one copy. PC version doesn't have so, because, well, LAN is much more confortable, OK. But why am I supposed to pay 20€ more to play with a friend, when Xbox players only have to buy a copy? It doesn't make any sense. Give me either local multiplayer or LAN with a single copy.

    Anyway, back on topic, I don't think Family Sharing is as good as it might be, but it's a step forward, for sure. As some of you have said, it could be a bit dangerous for indie devs, so I hope they make the right restrictions, but... Well, we'll see. This could be great if taken in the right direction.
    Actually, 360 Minecraft seems better in almost every respect than PC Minecraft. Better controls (you don't need the precision of a mouse with Minecraft...), better crafting interface, more structure, etc. The only thing PC has going for it are texture packs, third party tools, and larger worlds.

    And if XBOX players want to play on multiple screens, they still have to buy multiple copies. And while I wish more PC games had the option for splitscreen, I also suspect there would be endless bitching as people complain that "how dare they expect me to use two input devices for two people".
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  11. #51
    Secondary Hivemind Nexus Sparkasaurusmex's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by gundato View Post
    Actually, 360 Minecraft seems better in almost every respect than PC Minecraft. Better controls (you don't need the precision of a mouse with Minecraft...), better crafting interface, more structure, etc. The only thing PC has going for it are texture packs, third party tools, and larger worlds.
    Sure if you leave out the thing that makes the PC version superior: modding.

    What's multiplayer Minecraft like on consoles? Just default Minecraft, I gather.

  12. #52
    Quote Originally Posted by gundato View Post
    And if XBOX players want to play on multiple screens, they still have to buy multiple copies. And while I wish more PC games had the option for splitscreen, I also suspect there would be endless bitching as people complain that "how dare they expect me to use two input devices for two people".
    OK, but that would be senseless bitching. There has always been and will always be people who bitch about... Well, everything.

    Still, adding split-screen for PC would just be giving an option more, and it's an option that's already given in other versions of the game. If the reason not to give us acces to split-screen is that we can use LAN, then give us the option to use LAN with a single copy. If you don't want us to do LAN with a single-copy, the give us split-screen. It's common sense.

    BTW, I like Minecraft as it is, but the fact that we're not given an option we should have is pretty irritating.

  13. #53
    Secondary Hivemind Nexus Sparkasaurusmex's Avatar
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    It's sad because Minecraft did work like that until the new launcher.

    edit- and now to buy the "spawn" copy it will cost twice as much as I paid for the original.

  14. #54
    Lesser Hivemind Node L_No's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Sparkasaurusmex View Post
    I'm all for the idea of trading with friends, just like I used to do with console carts. I just think it'd be awesome if we could have these spawned LAN games. They don't have single player, they don't work in online multiplayer, they only work over LAN with a complete version of the game hosting.
    Spawned LAN-games definitely need to make a return. It's just so much easier than trying to find a game everyone owns or wants to buy when you want to play a game together.

  15. #55
    Secondary Hivemind Nexus gundato's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by AlexClockwork View Post
    OK, but that would be senseless bitching. There has always been and will always be people who bitch about... Well, everything.

    Still, adding split-screen for PC would just be giving an option more, and it's an option that's already given in other versions of the game. If the reason not to give us acces to split-screen is that we can use LAN, then give us the option to use LAN with a single copy. If you don't want us to do LAN with a single-copy, the give us split-screen. It's common sense.

    BTW, I like Minecraft as it is, but the fact that we're not given an option we should have is pretty irritating.
    For me, it is more about minecraft as a game, rather than minecraft as an environment to make voxel art and what not. The 360 version embraces the game, the PC version basically embraces elaborate sculpting.

    And I don't really think it is "common sense". The best way to fight piracy is, and always will be, an online component. Steam isn't effective because nobody can crack the DRM. Steam is effective because people don't want to risk their Steam accounts and can't be arsed to set up separate stuff (plus, it is even more convenient than piracy for getting the game). If you give people a way to play multiplayer with their friends without buying you not only hurt the online community ("screwing over" paying customers), you also get rid of almost every incentive to buy.

    While not the best example, take me and Battlefield 4. I am buying the PC version because I loved BF3 and BC2 on the PC. But I will likely also buy the PS4 version to play with my friends who are stupid poopy heads. I am annoyed, but don't mind because I have a job and know how to manage my income (... by buying the same game twice. Shut your trap :p). But ALL I want BF4 on the PS4 for is playing with my friends. And while BF is pretty shit for LAN (even when it had bots it was shit for LAN due to needing so many people to have a fun game), you can be damned sure that I would just mooch off of one of their copies if I could.

    And for a lot of people, all they want is the new CoD to play with friends and the like. The pubbing is just an added benefit.

    But here is the thing: If Drew Carey's friends all get BF4 to play together and Charlie Day's* friends all get BF4 to play together and Jerry Seinfeld's friends all get BF4 to play together, we suddenly have a community so that loners and freaks can ALSO have fun online. If they are all by themselves, no community. Remember: not ALL manipulation and molding is pure evil and horrible. Just most of it.


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  16. #56
    Secondary Hivemind Nexus Jesus_Phish's Avatar
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    Fun fact* - Minecraft wouldn't be the game it is today if it wasn't for modding. A very large chunk of that game was created by modders and then officially put in the game.

    *not actually a fact, but accurate none the less.

    I'd love to see them do something like lan play with a single copy. I bought games like the Lego series to play with my girlfriend, but we don't live together so we only get to play Lego games when we're together. Would be great to play my copy of it together while we're in our own homes.
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  17. #57
    So... Okay, I think I understand your point of view, but... Then, shouldn't local multiplayer dissapear, as it is not profitable? And if not, why is it dissapearing on PC, but not on consoles? Why can't I enjoy a multiplayer game with a single PC? If it is because LAN is more confortable than local multiplayer (same machine), why can't I use any of those unless I own more than one copy, while console users can?

    I mean, it's not like I'm asking for something that has never been done before. I'm asking for the same services the same game has on other platform. And, to say the reason is piracy... Well, they might force you to login to play LAN, and still let you play multiplayer with a single copy. It's not that difficult. And I don't think it'd hurt the community neither. I own a Minecraft copy and I don't play multiplayer, even though I'd like to play with some friends (not online, but on our own). But I can't unless each of us buy a copy (20€, no sales). It's senseless. The devs might get more money, but they are screwing the customers by negating them a pretty common service (as local multiplayer was not that long ago).

    BTW, I don't think it's the same with BF. Of course BF is more enjoyable with friends, but you can easily have fun with unknown people too. I think Minecraft is an experience made to play with people you know better, even if you can also have some fun with strangers.

  18. #58
    Secondary Hivemind Nexus gundato's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by AlexClockwork View Post
    So... Okay, I think I understand your point of view, but... Then, shouldn't local multiplayer dissapear, as it is not profitable? And if not, why is it dissapearing on PC, but not on consoles? Why can't I enjoy a multiplayer game with a single PC? If it is because LAN is more confortable than local multiplayer (same machine), why can't I use any of those unless I own more than one copy, while console users can?

    I mean, it's not like I'm asking for something that has never been done before. I'm asking for the same services the same game has on other platform. And, to say the reason is piracy... Well, they might force you to login to play LAN, and still let you play multiplayer with a single copy. It's not that difficult. And I don't think it'd hurt the community neither. I own a Minecraft copy and I don't play multiplayer, even though I'd like to play with some friends (not online, but on our own). But I can't unless each of us buy a copy (20€, no sales). It's senseless. The devs might get more money, but they are screwing the customers by negating them a pretty common service (as local multiplayer was not that long ago).

    BTW, I don't think it's the same with BF. Of course BF is more enjoyable with friends, but you can easily have fun with unknown people too. I think Minecraft is an experience made to play with people you know better, even if you can also have some fun with strangers.
    Don't get me wrong, I am always a fan of more options and more choice and all that. But I also tend to feel that I am good at seeing why more choice might not be beneficial from a monetary standpoint.

    And honestly, it never really existed on consoles. People keep equating "LAN gaming" with "Split-screen local co-op". The two are VERY different. The former is basically private multiplayer (before we were bound by cables, not so much now) and the latter are people playing on the same actual system. Some console games sort of supported the private multiplayer (I think Duke 3D on the PS1 did), but it was never a big thing. And as "the interweb" grew, there was no real reason to. Especially when you could make them feel like they are part of the community with the metagame (achievements).

    While the differences between platforms have shrunk, there are still differences. Things that are expected one platform aren't on the other, and vice versa. And while I think the people pretending Minecraft's mods are the greatest thing ever are kind of full of shit, that is still something the XBOX gamers would like :p. I am not convinced a significant portion of PC gamers would want the splitscreen though, and considering all the other features that are added to the 360 and not to the PC, I don't think that it is as easy a port as you are saying.

    Again, you call local split-screen a "common service". It isn't. At least, not in PC land. Just like mods and cloud saving are not "common service"s in console land. Should they be? Arguable for all of those, but I would like it.

    Also, I don't really think anyone has said the issue is piracy. The issue is "If you can get everything you want for free (legally), why would you pay?". If all the vast majority of gamers are buying something for is to play with friends (and I think that is a fair assumption with a lot of the manshoots and sports games), why give them a cost-free solution? It sucks for gamers, but it is kind of hard to blame them for not wanting to do it. The split-screen thing is a bit more complex and I think is mostly "how many people will actually benefit from this?".
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  19. #59
    Network Hub alset85's Avatar
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    There are a lot of console games that support system link = offline LAN. At the same time those same games don't provide the same functionality on PC. That is what pisses me off most. I think Diablo 3 for PS3 has it if I'm not mistaken.
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  20. #60
    Secondary Hivemind Nexus gundato's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by alset85 View Post
    There are a lot of console games that support system link = offline LAN. At the same time those same games don't provide the same functionality on PC. That is what pisses me off most. I think Diablo 3 for PS3 has it if I'm not mistaken.
    Skimming wiki, it looks like a fair number do, but it suffers from the exact same problems PC has. You have to have multiple consoles, multiple copies of the game, etc. The only advantage is being able to be entirely offline which really isn't a huge detriment these days for "most" gamers.

    And Diablo 3 is definitely a special case. An optimistic person would say that they wanted to push the community aspect on PC and learned it was a bad idea in time for consoles. A cynic would say that they are evil dog-fuckers who can't get away with that shit on consoles. In practice, it is a complicated subject, but I suspect it mostly boils down to Blizzard not realizing people dislike the Auction House.
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