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  1. #61
    I wouldn't compare local multiplayer and LAN if the developers didn't use LAN as an excuse not to add split-screen on PC. I mean, is there any other reason not to give the choice? Technical difficulties would be a good reason, but... Well, many PC games have been moded to support it, Minecraft included (by running two Minecraft games at the same time). So, the only reason I see being the potential sale of another copy, well... I understand it. Of course I do. But it's f*cking greedy. They don't NEED to sell another copy to a person who is just going to play it with another person who already owns a copy. That is screwing the customers, and I can understand it from a monetary point of view, but I don't like it nor respect it. I think it's a low thing to do.

    Also, split-screen on PC was much more common some years ago, if I remember correctly. And, even if it wasn't... The reason not to usually support cloud-saving or mods on consoles is much-simpler: platform limitations. Some years ago, few console users even connected their consoles to the Internet, and since they do so the support for cloud-saving has been increased. About mods... Well, I might be wrong, but I think it's way more complicated to develop and install a mod on a console than on a computer. Meanwhile, adding split-screen on a PC is relatively simple.

  2. #62
    Secondary Hivemind Nexus gundato's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by AlexClockwork View Post
    I wouldn't compare local multiplayer and LAN if the developers didn't use LAN as an excuse not to add split-screen on PC. I mean, is there any other reason not to give the choice? Technical difficulties would be a good reason, but... Well, many PC games have been moded to support it, Minecraft included (by running two Minecraft games at the same time). So, the only reason I see being the potential sale of another copy, well... I understand it. Of course I do. But it's f*cking greedy. They don't NEED to sell another copy to a person who is just going to play it with another person who already owns a copy. That is screwing the customers, and I can understand it from a monetary point of view, but I don't like it nor respect it. I think it's a low thing to do.
    I don't necessarily think it is screwing the customers. Honestly, there are a LOT of benefits to discouraging private multiplayer. Think of it how teachers are encouraged to encourage children to venture out of their cliques and play with other kids at recess.

    Obviously, there is a DEFINITE monetary incentive to do it here :p, but few things in life are all bad.

    Also, it isn't necessarily as easy as running two instances. Depending on how hardcoded things are, it might actually require a drastic rewrite to get MP in. And Minecraft PC was basically hacked together and iterated on.

    Also, split-screen on PC was much more common some years ago, if I remember correctly. And, even if it wasn't... The reason not to usually support cloud-saving or mods on consoles is much-simpler: platform limitations. Some years ago, few console users even connected their consoles to the Internet, and since they do so the support for cloud-saving has been increased. About mods... Well, I might be wrong, but I think it's way more complicated to develop and install a mod on a console than on a computer. Meanwhile, adding split-screen on a PC is relatively simple.
    I remember very few split-screen PC games, but the same platform limitations apply. Mods are just a matter of coding your game to accept them (I mean real mods, not the hacks), the main issue is that consoles don't have a good interface to make them (and games that have required extra peripherals are historically hated unless they are Guitar Hero) and the "mentality" of the console user is not to have to manually install things and maintain a folder structure. Just like the "mentality" of the PC gamer is to not have everyone crowd in front of a screen and grab a controller (consider how even very mellow and reasonable people like Total Biscuit will at least bitch a small bit if a game requires a gamepad).

    Hell, that is one reason why I really like Steam Workshop. Yeah, it has issues, but it is the first step toward standardizing an interface for modding and it is only a matter of time until cross-platform games let console users play with mods made for the PC and the like. Maybe we can't have everything (Nexus is good for the rest), but stuff like new quests and the like that use existing assets are more than doable.

    But, at the end of the day, split-screen boils down to the same issues that face any feature: Is it worth the time and effort? At the very least, that is another game mode that needs to be tested and debugged. And if it doesn't increase sales to cover development costs, why not focus on something that WILL make more people buy a game?
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  3. #63
    Secondary Hivemind Nexus somini's Avatar
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    Well this is the perfect excuse to mention Co-optimus. It's a database of couch coop and LAN games.
    http://www.co-optimus.com/system/4/pc.html
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  4. #64
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    Quote Originally Posted by AlexClockwork View Post
    But it's fucking greedy. They don't NEED to sell another copy to a person who is just going to play it with another person who already owns a copy. That is screwing the customers, and I can understand it from a monetary point of view, but I don't like it nor respect it. I think it's a low thing to do.
    Emphasis on monetization is the crux of the reason why this "Family Sharing" thing is insufficient: it does not address the issue of digital distribution's attempt to redefine media ownership in the context of a family household.

    Perhaps analogies to other media are flawed, but I am sorry: I will never agree to buy a separate book copy for my spouse or child, simply because "it works like that now". I have gotten used to sharing such things and I do not intend to budge.

  5. #65
    I think we are slowly approaching an agreement. XD I admit there might be positive things about the lack of local multiplayer, but while I might play BF with strangers if I can't do so with friends, I might not do the same with Minecraft or Borderlands, for example. It's a different experience.

    And about the general mentality of the PC gamers not being using a gamepad... TotalBiscuit says that designing a game with bad M&KB controls is not a good idea, because that's the main control method in PC gaming. Still, he does recommend having a controller, because it's useful, and actually more and more PC gamers own one as time goes on. I've actually had great local multiplayer experiences with M&KB and controller, thanks to Portal 2, Dungeon Defenders and a bunch of other games, as a lot of other people has probably done too. I'd just like to have that option given to me more frequently.

    Anyway, yes, I realise that most of the developers wont worry about adding split-screen because it's not worth their time, as little as it may be (sometimes, I'm aware that it's not always easy). I just think that, if they only did things looking at their time and effort investment related to their benefits, we'd end up with a bunch of CoD/F2P clones. I'm glad the devs don't always think just about money.

    EDIT: Thanks for the Co-optimus link!

  6. #66
    Secondary Hivemind Nexus LTK's Avatar
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    Has anyone else gotten into the beta? I have. Now that I'm back at my parents' house I had a chance to try it out on my dad's computer. The Steam account that we've been using to buy games from the Orange Box onwards always had his name on it, but I've slowly but surely wrested control of the account, and it's had my e-mail address on it for a while now.

    So to use family sharing, I authorised his computer through our/my account, and then I simply created a brand spanking new account for my dad and logged in. The library immediately displayed the 200+ games that I've accumulated over the years. My dad had been playing Crysis 2, and it remained in the installed games list, just as it was before. It started up and continued his save game without a problem. I had a remote desktop connection to my own computer (which is in another city) running in another window, and while I had FTL running remotely, starting Crysis 2 on the guest account caused my own account to display a polite request to stop playing, and vice-versa, just as you would expect. However, putting the guest account in offline mode did not change the accessibility of the main account's games at all. I was still able to play Crysis 2, and the main account didn't give a peep.

    Functionally, there's almost no difference between us both logging into the account intermittently, but with this, we can actually be logged in at the same time, and offline mode seems to get rid of the limitation that you can't play at the same time. This is extremely useful.

    I was half expecting that you needed to meet some requirement before you can play someone else's games, but you can literally have a guest account connected in minutes.

  7. #67
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    £30 from a few, or 3p from millions... most go for the £30 from a few because it's easier to manage.
    But looks like Steam/Valve is going for the 3p from everyone. :)

  8. #68
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    So the Guest Account was playing in offline mode? You manually set to offline mode and kept playing?

    Keep checking 24 hours and onward without letting it go online. Be curious if there is a phone home time limit.

  9. #69
    Secondary Hivemind Nexus LTK's Avatar
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    Technically, I quit the game, restarted Steam in offline mode, and restarted the game. The guest account is still in offline mode now. If there is a time limit, the Steam forums surely know about it.

  10. #70
    Network Hub Gerbick's Avatar
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    I'm in the beta. It's allowed one of my daughters to play Skyrim, without the need for me keep logged in on steam or my pc, and she won't mess my save up either. I hope. At some point I'll add my wife's laptop to the authorised list, so then my youngest son can play terraria on that.

  11. #71
    Secondary Hivemind Nexus LTK's Avatar
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    I'd been wondering how saved games were managed with family sharing, but now that I think about it, it's actually incredibly simple. It doesn't even need any special adjustments. Your save files are stored on your own computer and in the steam cloud space of your own account. That goes for the account owner and for the guest player, and the only difference is that the guest player doesn't technically own the game. Therefore, it's impossible for a guest player to mess up your save, because they're playing the game as if it was bought on their own account, so they're completely disconnected from any place your savegames could be in. Clever, no?

    You can't play any games that require additional user accounts (uplay etc.) for the same reason, because the guest player is not actually playing the same game as you are. They're playing their own temporary copy, which is in all other ways independent from yours.

  12. #72
    Secondary Hivemind Nexus soldant's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by LTK View Post
    Has anyone else gotten into the beta? [...] I was half expecting that you needed to meet some requirement before you can play someone else's games, but you can literally have a guest account connected in minutes.
    I have too, and I was wondering about this. I wanted to share a few things with my friend but it's practically useless except for this loophole. I wonder if they'll patch it?
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  13. #73
    Secondary Hivemind Nexus bonkers's Avatar
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    I only tried it with several accounts on the same PC. Works too so it's a nice "workaround" if you have more then one Steam account.
    If you share a computer with several users be aware that you best disable cloud saves. The problem is that many (older) games weren't made with this in mind and another user playing a game will change (desynch) the save game data. Once the other user logs in he might be tempted to override with the cloud file data when prompted. So several users on the same PC might be likely to mess up each others save files. So best disable that, no matter how neat a feature it is.
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  14. #74
    Network Hub Warduke's Avatar
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    I got into the beta. I gave a friend access to my library since I don't seem to be on a lot lately although he only sees something like 2/3 of my games. I had to give him my login and password so he could "authorize" his computer under my account but anyway, hopefully my games will see more playtime now.

  15. #75
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    Quote Originally Posted by Warduke View Post
    although he only sees something like 2/3 of my games.
    There are some games that are not available on family sharing, all the rockstar games are not available for example.

  16. #76
    Lesser Hivemind Node L_No's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Kiril View Post
    There are some games that are not available on family sharing, all the rockstar games are not available for example.
    Who decides which games are available on family sharing? The developer of the game in question?

  17. #77
    Secondary Hivemind Nexus gwathdring's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by L_No View Post
    Who decides which games are available on family sharing? The developer of the game in question?
    I think it's mostly decided by technical limitations. But it may also be decided by developer fiat on top of that.
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  18. #78
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    Quote Originally Posted by L_No View Post
    Who decides which games are available on family sharing? The developer of the game in question?
    As gwathdring, some are decided by technical limitations, all rockstar games have the extra DRM of the rockstar account on top, so they won't work.

    due to technical limitations, some Steam games may be unavailable for sharing. For example, titles that require an additional third-party key, account, or a subscription in order to play cannot be shared between accounts
    I am sure that a dev has an opt out aswell

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