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  1. #21
    Secondary Hivemind Nexus BasicPauly's Avatar
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    Ksempac, not entirely sure if it should be that simple.

    I dont really see it necessary to cull anyone, really, but if people did think that this was necessary, it shouldnt be THAT simple.

    For example, I consider myself still part of the outfit and the group, but I know for certain that I havent played in the last 60 days.. How would you handle special cases like that?

    I think a 'culling' is a bit harsh, and not really necessary in all honesty. Its an open community, with no strict recruitment process (quite rightly), so im not sure forcing some participation rule is really in the spirit of things.

    Definitely worth talking about, but I think your criteria for removal is a little simple.


    Another note: If somebody was kicked out, but then wanted to come back, what would the procedure on gained ranks, titles, purple giraffes, other stuff be?

  2. #22
    Activated Node HexPen's Avatar
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    Presented for consideration. Data retrieved 30th Sep 13 from planetside-universe. 60 days ago arbitrarily picked from above discussion is 9 Aug 13.













    Last edited by HexPen; 08-10-2013 at 08:37 AM. Reason: Erudition

  3. #23
    Secondary Hivemind Nexus Dewi's Avatar
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    I know what you mean, Ksempac, but remember we are not your typical Outfit. We are here for RPS readers. Should they disappear then return some months later then so be it, they shall have a home. Kind of been the ethos since day 1.

    It's annoying when you look at our stats on say Outfit Points and PSU, it irritates me, but it doesn't affect us all that much on a day to day basis. I think this should be left alone.

    On another two points I'd like to mention for the meeting:

    • Nanite of the Living Dead: Oh yes, I'm pushing this. Hopefully I'll know more come Wednesday, and will be able to say more since it won't be on an open forum, but I'll be fishing for volunteers anyhow
    • More interaction with RTRS: Yes we're different outfits, but we are still part of the same community. There is somewhat of a division between the two. I have been speaking with Dom and we both agree we should encourage participation in each others events, like them joining us on a Thursday, and us joining them on a Friday. Plus, see Dom's other post about a PTS event between us. Maybe I could have a word about a particular battle island...

  4. #24
    Moderator QuantaCat's Avatar
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    also, can someone please start talking to the mumble only RPSers that there is a meetup soon?
    - Tom De Roeck.

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  5. #25
    Secondary Hivemind Nexus BasicPauly's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Dewi View Post
    • More interaction with RTRS: Yes we're different outfits, but we are still part of the same community. There is somewhat of a division between the two. I have been speaking with Dom and we both agree we should encourage participation in each others events, like them joining us on a Thursday, and us joining them on a Friday. Plus, see Dom's other post about a PTS event between us. Maybe I could have a word about a particular battle island...
    Really like this idea. Many members already do have a place in both sub groups, so it makes perfect sense.

    Would also massively help with the numbers issue. Support from both core groups on main days is a great idea.

  6. #26
    Secondary Hivemind Nexus MrEclectic's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by BasicPauly View Post
    For example, I consider myself still part of the outfit and the group, but I know for certain that I havent played in the last 60 days.. How would you handle special cases like that?
    A bit controversial, but nothing special about it: you are not a part of this group. ATM you are merely affiliated. I really like you and appreciate your past input in game and in the many debates around it, but you don't participate, you don't get a say. Who gets a say? The 10-20plus remaining people who have to stand up to the TR zerg each evening.

    Quote Originally Posted by Dewi View Post
    I know what you mean, Ksempac, but remember we are not your typical Outfit. We are here for RPS readers. Should they disappear then return some months later then so be it, they shall have a home. Kind of been the ethos since day 1.
    Controversial statement number 2: I used to think the same way, but it started dawning on me that we are not part of the community: we've started branching out to other games, which we do not play with the rest of the community, even when the greater RPS family is very active at said games. SWAT 4, BF3 and especially ArmAIII (with a very strong RPS community, FolkARPS): we play those only with eachother, not with the rest of RPS.

    And, to further support this argument, take the Natural Selection 2 folks as a counterpoint: when wanting to play PS2, they didn't form their own group, but they came here and joined us. Either individually on regular evenings, or as a whole group during CTA.

    In fact, I'm beginning to question the whole "openness": if this were an open and welcoming community, how come we have such poor member retention? Sure, the playerbase is shrinking, but I believe that we have turned away a great number of players. Especially during the last 2 CTAs, a significant portion of those who joined us were experienced players, that got tired of lonewolfing or being members of smaller outfits, and looked for a bigger home for that specific PS2 flavour: huge, combined arms battles. What do we, as an outfit, do to provide that? This is the unique aspect of the game. Do we cater to it? Do we provide an avenue through which the greater RPS community gets to experience this unique aspect?

    PS: Too strong a language. I apologise for that. Nevertheless, despite the phrasing, I believe both points are valid, or at least worth considering.
    Last edited by MrEclectic; 08-10-2013 at 10:32 AM.

  7. #27
    Secondary Hivemind Nexus Cephas's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by BasicPauly View Post
    Really like this idea. Many members already do have a place in both sub groups, so it makes perfect sense.

    Would also massively help with the numbers issue. Support from both core groups on main days is a great idea.
    I agree - very nice idea and might help break up some of the monotony of PS2 by playing a new faction sometimes.

  8. #28
    Secondary Hivemind Nexus Dominicus's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Dewi View Post
    somewhat of a division between the two. I have been speaking with Dom and we both agree we should encourage participation in each others events, like them joining us on a Thursday, and us joining them on a Friday. Plus, see Dom's other post about a PTS event between us. Maybe I could have a word about a particular battle island...
    I was more pointing to the special events, like the ninites of the living dead and such, but more mundane and normal events could be an idea as well. I'll speak up for this on the next freedom friday, and see what it brings.

    On another note, as this slowly start to creep into every thread that speak of planetside 2 on this sub forum, try to be a little bit more positive. The RPs outfit is not dead, dying or ill at all. 1-2 squads up at non ops nights is very respectable. We of RTRS are happy if we reach 6 people. 20 people on an ops night is what we had for most of our excistance, and we manage it nicely. So lighten up already and please do not spread so much doom around. It's almost as if we of RTRS are missing something fundamental and that we should be in full red alert panic defcon 5 mode all the time about the future of our outfit. Just my two cents as an outsider :P

  9. #29
    Secondary Hivemind Nexus Boris's Avatar
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    Yep. There's a lot of clique forming going on, something we specifically state we don't do. I'm not a fan of "Purple Giraffes go play some other game" at all.

  10. #30
    Secondary Hivemind Nexus BasicPauly's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Boris View Post
    Yep. There's a lot of clique forming going on, something we specifically state we don't do. I'm not a fan of "Purple Giraffes go play some other game" at all.
    But at the same time its hardly right for us to say "you guys cant split off and play another game with each other because you get along well" can we.

    Its a gaming community first and foremost, and this RPS part is second to that really, isnt it?

    Sure, we could stop talking about other games within the confines of this outfit forum, but its nice to play with people you know you get on with in other games.

  11. #31
    Secondary Hivemind Nexus BasicPauly's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by MrEclectic View Post
    A bit controversial, but nothing special about it: you are not a part of this group. ATM you are merely affiliated. I really like you and appreciate your past input in game and in the many debates around it, but you don't participate, you don't get a say. Who gets a say? The 10-20plus remaining people who have to stand up to the TR zerg each evening.
    Firstly, thanks for the kind words in there .

    I understand how you might view it that way, but I do consider myself part of the group purely because I was there from the start and because I helped, in whatever small way, to develop it.

    I feel I am still a part of it because I have every intention of continuing to play again once ive had a break (and can be bothered to install massive patches).

    I also feel that I do get a say, simply because I am a part of the community and have been around since the start of the sub community.

    Im not stating by any means that I have some kind of final say in decisions about if or how we cull members, but I believe I have a say and certainly have the right to point out that I dont believe its the right way to go.

  12. #32
    Moderator QuantaCat's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by MrEclectic View Post
    ... BF3 and especially ArmAIII: we play those only with each other, not with the rest of RPS...
    speak for yourself, my BF3 nights have people from everywhere. It's just that the shooter crowd on RPS is concentrated in ARMA and PS2. (and other shooters) Because there's teamgames to be had, not because were "cliquing up".
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    "I wrinkled my nose at QC being a mod."

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  13. #33
    Secondary Hivemind Nexus Cooper's Avatar
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    Re: Culling.

    If the only benefit is "it makes people realise how small we are" then, no, I really do not think it's a good idea.

    We are here for the RPS readers. Even if, no, especially if said readers really don't pay any attention anymore and we are no longer getting a trickle-through of new members from the site and we've been reduced to a small core group of regularly playing members plus some who play less frequently.

    Example: Eventually the optimisation patch will come out, people will want to try again, it is our job to be here when that happens. It should be as simple as "hop on Mumble, log into game, get playing with us".

    If there's a larger consensus that culling is worthwhile, sure. But I really don't see what it does. Those of us in a position to do something about how quiet things are already know how quiet things are. Those of us who don't care / won't do anything about it are unlikely to be stirred into action by a members cull.

    This being said, the RPS front page will no longer be our primary recruiting source. It hasn't been since the last C2A and, moreover, C2As are not resulting in anything other than temporary activity spikes. They were expectionally useful in the first 6 months to produce a large cohort of members - from which - we have drawn our regular players. But the convergence rate from C2A players to regular(ish) players has dropped off entirely.

    Which means we need to start our own recruiting.
    I've been thinking about this a bit recently. It's really about time (probably a bit late actually) to start recruiting on our own terms.

    We need:
    - A simple recruitment process (e.g: Sign up & post in these forums, sign up for an email mailing-list, attend a introduction session)
    - To get recruitment posts up on the PS2 forums, Millerside reddit etc etc.
    - To give better attention to our website's 'landing page'.
    - To actually start recruiting. As in getting out there and get people who are already playing Planetside to play with us. Things like running public platoons and the like.

    The biggest worry in this is a clash of personalities. RPS readership has, so far, given us an incredibly good community. Before we bowl into wider recruitment drives we should probably think hard about what it is about [RPS] that is special & that we want to secure for the future.
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  14. #34
    Secondary Hivemind Nexus LaKroy's Avatar
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    I have to agree that culling inactive members is not necessary. I don't see any particular benefit from it and it would be against the basic purpose of the outfit, as Dewi and Cooper point out.

    Awareness of the number of active players should be possible to achieve through other means. Even if we performed a culling (which I don't think we should), it is not certain that we would become any more aware.

  15. #35
    Secondary Hivemind Nexus LaKroy's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Boris View Post
    Yep. There's a lot of clique forming going on, something we specifically state we don't do. I'm not a fan of "Purple Giraffes go play some other game" at all.
    Quote Originally Posted by MrEclectic View Post
    SWAT 4, BF3 and especially ArmAIII (with a very strong RPS community, FolkARPS): we play those only with eachother, not with the rest of RPS.
    SWAT 4 is open to all of RPS, it started in this thread.

    BF3 is also for the whole of RPS, as pointed out by QuantaCat.

    The Arma 3 games that have been had the last 8 days is a branch-off from the SWAT 4 tactical shenanigans. If this is not welcome here I am sure that we can arrange for the discussions and organisation to take place somewhere else.

  16. #36
    Secondary Hivemind Nexus MrEclectic's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by LaKroy View Post
    SWAT 4 is open to all of RPS, it started in this thread.

    BF3 is also for the whole of RPS, as pointed out by QuantaCat.

    The Arma 3 games that have been had the last 8 days is a branch-off from the SWAT 4 tactical shenanigans. If this is not welcome here I am sure that we can arrange for the discussions and organisation to take place somewhere else.
    I must have expressed myself badly. It goes without saying that people enjoy other games, and as such play other games with each other. What I pointed out though are the connection, its nature and even lack of at cases with the rest of the RPS community. Which is tangential to the question of what the focus of the outfit is, and which way best to serve it.

  17. #37
    Secondary Hivemind Nexus Dewi's Avatar
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    Our SWAT4 night has been open to all RPSers since day one, there is a thread in the main Gaming Sub Forum, yet no one was interested, and those that said they were for the most part haven't turned up.

    I don't like calling this a "clique" as to say so implies we actively discourage others joining which is simply not the case!

    However in a community of the size we are/were it is inevitable that a group of people will enjoy playing a game together so much so that they would like to try other games out as well. Those of us that play SWAT and ARMA enjoy playing these games together, and I like to think we've become good gaming buddies.

    We are ready to accept anyone with open arms that want to play these games with us. We have always said that if we have lots of people we will open new games so everyone can be accommodated.

    So please, don't think of it as a clique. Yes we are the same group of people that turn up to play other games, but we have invited others to join. Others refusal to play does not in itself make us a clique.

  18. #38
    Secondary Hivemind Nexus Boris's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by LaKroy View Post
    The Arma 3 games that have been had the last 8 days is a branch-off from the SWAT 4 tactical shenanigans. If this is not welcome here I am sure that we can arrange for the discussions and organisation to take place somewhere else.
    How about the Arma subforum? Because right now, it looks to me like that's being avoided so only giraffes play. That's a clique.

    Quote Originally Posted by Dewi View Post
    I don't like calling this a "clique" as to say so implies we actively discourage others joining which is simply not the case!
    Apologies, but to me it looked like you were. By putting the thread in the PS2 subforum and not the Arma one.

    Quote Originally Posted by Dewi View Post
    However in a community of the size we are/were it is inevitable that a group of people will enjoy playing a game together so much so that they would like to try other games out as well. Those of us that play SWAT and ARMA enjoy playing these games together, and I like to think we've become good gaming buddies.

    We are ready to accept anyone with open arms that want to play these games with us. We have always said that if we have lots of people we will open new games so everyone can be accommodated.

    So please, don't think of it as a clique. Yes we are the same group of people that turn up to play other games, but we have invited others to join. Others refusal to play does not in itself make us a clique.
    Others might have felt compelled to refuse because of the secreted-away nature of the thing. "Oh, they probably don't want me/us there".

    If you want to play Arma with a bunch of people you met in the giraffes, that's completely fine. But you should use the proper channel for that. Not using that gives the impression that outsiders aren't welcome. That's all I'm trying to say.

  19. #39
    Secondary Hivemind Nexus WallyTrooper's Avatar
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    Cliques or gaming community?
    Addressing the issue of cliques and 'purple giraffes playing other games'. This is not exclusive. Both the SWAT 4 and the Arma 3 threads have explicitly stated that all are welcome. That remains the case. The selection that is going on is that people are selecting themselves by whether they want to play. So I don't think this is a clique. If the usage of the PS2 bit of the forum is unwelcome then we can move the threads elsewhere.

    However, when I think about what Jim is trying to achieve with the RPS forums I can only imagine that he wants to create an online community in which people come together to share a love of PC games and then play those games together. I think that branching out to play new games with old friends is doing that. Maybe I've misunderstood Jim's intent but if I have then I've done it in good faith.

    Just to reiterate: you're all very welcome to play Arma 3 or SWAT 4 with other [RPS] members. We'll probably be playing SWAT 4 (stetchkov syndicate) from 1930 (UK time) this evening.

    Culling

    I'm opposed to this. Go look at the INI homepage to see what culling gets you. It gets you people who are obsessed with their % active statistics but have no personal interest in the wider gaming community. Why should we care? Give me a compelling answer to that and I'll listen to arguments about culling.

    Recruiting
    We've always recruited by one means or another. Merely being present in game is advertising (particularly with the camo) and we've always had a route for new joiners. Making that more formalised doesn't seem a bad idea because the game is fun with big groups. But we need to be really, really careful about attracting trolls and idiots. So far we've done incredibly well on that front but I'd hate to see a few trolls sour the atmosphere for all. If we start recruiting then I think we need the following (in addition to Cooper's points):

    - Clear code of conduct
    - Better defined rules ("be excellent" is too open to interpretation if we're opening up to lots of new people)
    - Fair process for kicking people without it becoming traumatic

    I fear that without those we could easily lose control of how the outfit feels.
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  20. #40
    Moderator QuantaCat's Avatar
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    you mean, like I did? :D
    - Tom De Roeck.

    verse publications

    "Quantacat's name is still recognised even if he watches on with detached eyes like Peter Molyneux over a cube in 3D space, staring at it with tears in his eyes, softly whispering... Someday they'll get it."

    "It's frankly embarrassing. The mods on here are woeful."

    "I wrinkled my nose at QC being a mod."

    "At least he has some personality."

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