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  1. #101
    Secondary Hivemind Nexus Grizzly's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by QuantaCat View Post
    Theres plenty of moderation here, but they refuse to just move the comments here. Saying that moderation is too much work is an excuse.

    And I dont mean that in a omg they dont want us to talk, more like theyre a bit lazy and uncaring.
    If you are going to call them lazy, I certainly get why they would be uncaring.

  2. #102
    Quote Originally Posted by Heliocentric View Post
    He's not, hes being scarcastic, he's highlighting that suggesting this is a "weekend thing" is disingenuous. Truly, the readership are not trusted to handle the content responsibly. Which... perhaps sits misaligned with the headline.
    I agree it's probably not the "primary" reason, but I would say as reasons go - that the writers don't want to be spending all their spare time moderating - it's not altogether unjustified. Moderation is both a physically and psychologically draining job. It almost goes without saying but - to do it absolutely properly - it requires a heck of a lot of time and effort. And when that's not the part of the job of running a website that tends to make money, it's incredibly hard to justify spending that much time on it and still having enough time to do the arguably more important parts of the website - writing actual articles. Speaking from experience - it's also incredibly, incredibly draining - if you've spent three hours trying to assess, punish, clean and stop bickering while staring at a computer screen for three hours, the prospect of spending another two writing an article doesn't seem wholly appealing.

    I mean, the primary reason most websites get "trusted" members of the community to do it voluntarily is almost evidence alone of this. Sadly, not many websites can afford a large chunk of their budget to employ to have somebody exclusively in this position simply because - at least in the short term - it's not a position that makes much money. Of course, the theory is by cultivating a community that people want to be a part of by making it both welcoming while still up for spirited debate should make it more appealing to others thus getting more traffic thus getting more people coming to the site and make some money in the long term, but again - it takes time and effort that in all honesty can be put to a more immediate impact by producing content.

    Of course, that's not to say they shouldn't, but it should go some way as to showing that when a website does give you space to speak in terms of comments, it should be seen as a privilege, rather than a right. Maybe some of that might be alleviated by merging forums with comments so a moderator on the forum could moderate a comment, I don't know. But the fact is, giving you any space to speak is almost entirely for the benefit of a website's users and because they want to give you that space, not because they "should" or "have" to.

    But this is the internet, there's plenty of places to air your voice, including this forum. In the end a lot of the arguments aren't "I want to be able to comment on an article" - they seem to be more "I want my comment to be seen next to this article."

    So I wouldn't even say it's "lazy" or "uncaring" as much as what's reasonable and can be done without it affecting other things in a negative fashion. It's tricky and whether the staff get the balance right is totally open to interpretation, but should be considered rather than necessarily dismissed as terms like those.
    Last edited by The_B; 30-08-2014 at 09:58 PM.

  3. #103
    Moderator QuantaCat's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Grizzly View Post
    If you are going to call them lazy, I certainly get why they would be uncaring.
    Im one of the few that can; why have a community with people that are doing the work for you, for free even, and then randomly suggest its too much work policing something, when all they have to do is redirect.

    Ive never asked anyone of rps why comments are locked, so theyve never replied to me about this, but if theyd come at me with the its too much work lark, i would call them lazy and uncaring yes.
    - Tom De Roeck.

    verse publications

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  4. #104
    Secondary Hivemind Nexus Grizzly's Avatar
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    when all they have to do is redirect.
    Miss Ellison did point out the forums to people who bugged her on twitter about the comments, for what it is worth.

  5. #105
    Secondary Hivemind Nexus Heliocentric's Avatar
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    @The_B this is all understood, but their explanation is "locked for weekend' not 'weaponised crapstorm'.
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  6. #106
    Moderator QuantaCat's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Grizzly View Post
    Miss Ellison did point out the forums to people who bugged her on twitter about the comments, for what it is worth.
    Well then theyre not being lazy! Again, they havent told me anything, but if they would, thatd be my reply.
    - Tom De Roeck.

    verse publications

    "Quantacat's name is still recognised even if he watches on with detached eyes like Peter Molyneux over a cube in 3D space, staring at it with tears in his eyes, softly whispering... Someday they'll get it."

    "It's frankly embarrassing. The mods on here are woeful."

    "I wrinkled my nose at QC being a mod."

    "At least he has some personality."

  7. #107
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    I don't mind comments being off. It doesn't affect the article for me. (There are some articles where the comments are a font of useful information - but the ones where they degenerate into flame wars aren't those.)

    What I do find rather annoying is the way half the information seems to get disseminated via twitter. I don't use twitter much, and I don't follow any of the RPS guys anyway. So it always feels like listening to one half of a phone conversation.
    It's frustrating to keep finding out that points have been addressed, but on Twitter, or on a personal blog, or somewhere else in the small print where the majority of people won't have seen it.

  8. #108
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    Quote Originally Posted by QuantaCat View Post
    Theres plenty of moderation here, but they refuse to just move the comments here. Saying that moderation is too much work is an excuse.
    You do a great job but the front page gets an order of magnitude more comments than the forums do. I don't know your personal situation, but if you really can afford to spend ten times more time every day moderating for RPS, maybe let Jim know.

    I'd imagine you and the other forum moderators are the very reason they don't move comments here, or direct them here in the article - they don't feel it would be appropriate to ask you deal with that level of work, it's not what you signed up for.

  9. #109
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    Quote Originally Posted by Kadayi View Post
    She could of just opted not to comment about recent events and just posted about the game instead with comments unlocked. That way people could discuss the game. I'm sure the game maker would of preferred that.
    Yeah but then you'd have moaned at her for being silent on the issue, not saying anything, and perpetuating a media blackout.

    She can't win with you, so she may as well do what she wants.

  10. #110
    Secondary Hivemind Nexus Kadayi's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by deano2099 View Post
    Yeah but then you'd have moaned at her for being silent on the issue, not saying anything, and perpetuating a media blackout.
    Nope. Pretty sure I said previously I wouldn't expect RPS to say anything about it due to them being implicated and similarly I wouldn't expect some occasional freelancer to do so either using RPS as a platform.
    Why yes you're right I'm deliciously evil

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  11. #111
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    Quote Originally Posted by Tei View Post
    Total Biscuit also post with comments disabled. I kind of understand it. Maybe you are good at writing, and have something to say in a interesting way, but are not equiped to deal with the mountain of shit in the comments and "reactions" in other places. So comments off is a good compromise. I still want to read interesting articles, even if the author have to do that. Thats why I don't mind much Total Biscuit blockquing comments.
    From what I remember, TotalBiscuit disabled YouTube comments because of changes YouTube made to its comment system. He was directing people to Reddit to discuss videos.

    But at a later date he got upset at posters on Reddit for some reason that I forget the specific details for.

    Quote Originally Posted by Kadayi View Post
    Nope. Pretty sure I said previously I wouldn't expect RPS to say anything about it due to them being implicated and similarly I wouldn't expect some occasional freelancer to do so either using RPS as a platform.
    I wouldn't expect RPS to say anything about it because things related to the issue might cast a negative light on a female game developer that they support. Even if none of the personal stuff and insults and threats weren't present, RPS wouldn't have covered the surrounding stories because those stories do not fit the beliefs and agenda that RPS wants to promote.

    That's the message that RPS has given over the years with closing comments threads, posting touchy editorials with comments closed from the start, attacking silence when it is a studio that they don't like but supporting silence when it is a cause that they do like (or themselves), promoting news only tangentially related to gaming when it matches their cause but refusing to cover stories where the sides are flipped because it suddenly isn't game news, and all the other double standards and hypocrisies and the like.

    (That's why I tended to complain about some of John's actions in particular in the past, saying that he was hurting the causes that he was trying to champion. It has hurt the images of both his causes and RPS itself.)

    EDIT: I'll leave it to the mods to decide if I've strayed too far from the ideas of the first post of this thread. I've tried to tone down the second half of my reply, but toning down starts to neuter the comment and concerns expressed.
    Last edited by Baines; 01-09-2014 at 09:48 PM.

  12. #112
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    I personally like your comment, Baines.

  13. #113
    Moderator QuantaCat's Avatar
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    Comments are fine, but in the wrong place. However Ill look into possibly integrating the forums more into the main site.
    - Tom De Roeck.

    verse publications

    "Quantacat's name is still recognised even if he watches on with detached eyes like Peter Molyneux over a cube in 3D space, staring at it with tears in his eyes, softly whispering... Someday they'll get it."

    "It's frankly embarrassing. The mods on here are woeful."

    "I wrinkled my nose at QC being a mod."

    "At least he has some personality."

  14. #114
    Moderator QuantaCat's Avatar
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    in the more hot topic threads, Ive started merging stuff. just fyi so you dont think Ive deleted random crap since we went back a page.
    - Tom De Roeck.

    verse publications

    "Quantacat's name is still recognised even if he watches on with detached eyes like Peter Molyneux over a cube in 3D space, staring at it with tears in his eyes, softly whispering... Someday they'll get it."

    "It's frankly embarrassing. The mods on here are woeful."

    "I wrinkled my nose at QC being a mod."

    "At least he has some personality."

  15. #115
    Moderator QuantaCat's Avatar
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    wrong forum.
    - Tom De Roeck.

    verse publications

    "Quantacat's name is still recognised even if he watches on with detached eyes like Peter Molyneux over a cube in 3D space, staring at it with tears in his eyes, softly whispering... Someday they'll get it."

    "It's frankly embarrassing. The mods on here are woeful."

    "I wrinkled my nose at QC being a mod."

    "At least he has some personality."

  16. #116
    Secondary Hivemind Nexus Kadayi's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Baines View Post
    I wouldn't expect RPS to say anything about it because things related to the issue might cast a negative light on a female game developer that they support. Even if none of the personal stuff and insults and threats weren't present, RPS wouldn't have covered the surrounding stories because those stories do not fit the beliefs and agenda that RPS wants to promote.

    That's the message that RPS has given over the years with closing comments threads, posting touchy editorials with comments closed from the start, attacking silence when it is a studio that they don't like but supporting silence when it is a cause that they do like (or themselves), promoting news only tangentially related to gaming when it matches their cause but refusing to cover stories where the sides are flipped because it suddenly isn't game news, and all the other double standards and hypocrisies and the like.

    (That's why I tended to complain about some of John's actions in particular in the past, saying that he was hurting the causes that he was trying to champion. It has hurt the images of both his causes and RPS itself.)
    Perfect summary in truth. I think the move from discussion to 'sit down and shut up' has done irrevocable damage both to the sites readership and reputation. Based on what Johns bullishly written on his own blog he'd rather people with differing opinions don't come to the site, which begs the question why have comments in the first place if all he wants is an echo chamber of the like minded who will rally against whatever windmill he's charging this month.
    Why yes you're right I'm deliciously evil

    Tradition is the tyranny of dead men

    Steam:Kadayi Origin: Kadayi GFWL: Kadayi

    Probable Replicant

    *blush* I'm flattered by the attention boys, but please let's not make the thread about liddle old me


    Quote Originally Posted by Finicky View Post
    Kadayi will remain the worst poster on the interwebs.
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  17. #117
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    Quote Originally Posted by Kadayi View Post
    Perfect summary in truth. I think the move from discussion to 'sit down and shut up' has done irrevocable damage both to the sites readership and reputation.
    Oh God. I've been wrong all along. My eyes are now open. One phrase.

    'Sit down and shut up'. That's the RPS attitude. Flip it around: 'Shut up and sit down'. A site all about board games run by - yes - ex-RPS writer Quintin Smith. Suspicious enough right? Who else would benefit more from the total destruction of the video games industry - the death of the gamer - than one of the web's top board games sites?

    But where it gets really suspect? The smoking gun? Who is Quintin Smith sleeping with? Gamasutra Editor-In-Chief Leigh Alexander.

    Fuck me Kad, you've blown this wide open now. Jesus Christ. It's nothing less than a conspiracy to destroy the video games entirely. Fuck.

    Has anyone got a gif and some red pen handy?

  18. #118
    Moderator QuantaCat's Avatar
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    Seriously? In this fucking thread?

    And I have to agree that thats how JW comes across, definitely. Ive met the man, I had a fun time and hes nice. That doesnt mean that some of the things he writes are quite aggressive and dismissive.

    How is this worthy of such an aggressive rebuttal?
    - Tom De Roeck.

    verse publications

    "Quantacat's name is still recognised even if he watches on with detached eyes like Peter Molyneux over a cube in 3D space, staring at it with tears in his eyes, softly whispering... Someday they'll get it."

    "It's frankly embarrassing. The mods on here are woeful."

    "I wrinkled my nose at QC being a mod."

    "At least he has some personality."

  19. #119
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    Quote Originally Posted by QuantaCat View Post
    Seriously? In this fucking thread?

    And I have to agree that thats how JW comes across, definitely. Ive met the man, I had a fun time and hes nice. That doesnt mean that some of the things he writes are quite aggressive and dismissive.

    How is this worthy of such an aggressive rebuttal?
    I'm not sure you're taking this seriously.

    Look, here is a post by someone defending Zoe Quinn. In his sig, he makes it clear that he runs a Wiki about board games. The evidence is mounting, and this warrants an official response.

    http://forum.rpg.net/showthread.php?...0#post18212190

  20. #120
    Moderator QuantaCat's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by deano2099 View Post
    I'm not sure you're taking this seriously.

    Look, here is a post by someone defending Zoe Quinn. In his sig, he makes it clear that he runs a Wiki about board games. The evidence is mounting, and this warrants an official response.

    http://forum.rpg.net/showthread.php?...0#post18212190
    Ill gladly accept being wrong about this, but see your PMs.
    - Tom De Roeck.

    verse publications

    "Quantacat's name is still recognised even if he watches on with detached eyes like Peter Molyneux over a cube in 3D space, staring at it with tears in his eyes, softly whispering... Someday they'll get it."

    "It's frankly embarrassing. The mods on here are woeful."

    "I wrinkled my nose at QC being a mod."

    "At least he has some personality."

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