View Poll Results: Daemons of Khorne to enter

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  • Yay!!!!!!

    16 61.54%
  • Nay!!!!!!

    10 38.46%
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  1. #1
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    Daemons of Khorne entering the Rps DoD Yay or Nay

    Daemons of Khorne may they enter or shall they remain truly barred.

    With proviso admins can do as they see fit in barring for health of the leagues.
    Last edited by Hellsraiser; 05-10-2013 at 01:18 PM.

  2. #2
    Secondary Hivemind Nexus Heliocentric's Avatar
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    Can someone post the full team rules, I don't have chaos edition.
    are these right.


    If this is right I vote no, with a little restraint the blood thirster can either be a dedicated blitzer with jugga claw and horns or not even taken. A player that trys to get all positionals will play terribly, but the line-men having frenzy hardly matters and need once they get block is a huge benefit. They are higher AV than norsemen and are more 'humans with frenzy' for 10 points.

    But their P access is an advantage too, skills like leader, HMP and dump-of can be taken at any time.

    Blood letters are a trap, taking too many of them dooms you, heralds are essential and push the thirster even further to the fringe.
    Last edited by Heliocentric; 05-10-2013 at 05:31 PM.
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  3. #3
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    when i get home i will confirm or adjust if needed :-) thanks for reply and sharing your view

  4. #4
    Secondary Hivemind Nexus laneford's Avatar
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    I'd be tempted to try them, if only for a team of entirely passing linemen.

    Give them all dump off, it'd be hilarious.

  5. #5
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    You have it all correct after a quick look in game helio was 99% sure you had it right anyway.

    But for my counter debate Frenzy is a two edged sword so normal blocks are at a much higher risk due to the must follow up on a 10man only str 3 team with the big guy being the one exception.

    For Blitz purposes there is alot of great skills available to many players yet one has to ask about the over redundancy due to only 1 blitz being available per turn, meaning whilst the Blood Thirster Khorne Heralds and even Blood letters all have a great starting set thats still 7 Players all optimised at their finest for a blitz action.

    So unlike humans in that regard you have a large proportion of your team as a high risk frenzy into trouble and increased turnover chance, but on the flip side more chance for them to try and pressure the sides.

    For me that makes them an intresting team that is akin to a bashing game not so far from the humans just with frenzy added with a higher costing lineman trying to prop up lower overall utility skills on the positionals due to one effective blitzer per round whereas the humans postional Blitzer has starting block which in all situations stands useful when juggernaut and horns do not on defensive.

    All in all i can see the arguement for them being strong yet what are they attempting to do they attempt a bash game with 10 str 3 based people and the best blitzing big guy in the game. The cultists access to pass just opens up that one or two go down and handled the passing and retrieving game so your positional blitzers are all nearer the front with as you said 4 near redundant positonals due to the low av.

    Since a Pit Cultist attempting to take for example leader or so on is more comparable to a human Thrower except requires spp to reach that and runs with a redundant skill in frenzy so will actually require more TV to be at the level of the Thrower.

    So its in a way you can see them as linemen that have to try and shore up the holes of redundant positionals within the Khorne Daemon lineup at least as far as I can see.

    And kept firmly in check by the str 3 so that at no point can you really say they will ever safely battle it out with the Nurgles, Chaos, Orcs and Lizards. In fact by nature like the humans they are a flexible team that just really can threaten to break into cages and run riskier passing plays.

    Just my 2 cents feel free to shred me to piecemeal now.

  6. #6
    Lesser Hivemind Node 20phoenix's Avatar
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    Khorne really suffer at 1500+ TV because while everyone else is picking luxury skills you are still picking up the basics. Its not Chaos or Nurgle where you have mutations or Vampires with hypno to compensate for your lack of skills either. Instead your compensation is a skill that leads you down blind alleys and increases your turnover rate. Once a Khorne team starts to crumble it topples like a house of cards as without your team supporting you frenzy becomes even more of a liability.

  7. #7
    Network Hub Ethelred's Avatar
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    I'm for them. I've played about 5 games in various MM leagues and they really do suffer from frenzy without block.

    My oppo in one game also blitzed with his thirster early doors in the the middle of my team, leaving him wide open to a gang foul and and a badly hurt which was hilarious.

  8. #8
    Personally, I think they are a fun team which when played right can be good/viable, but most often then not end up in pretty hilarious failure. One particular moment which rings out was one where a unskilled bloodthirster blitzed my blodgestep ghoul in nagg and got two pushes followed by double skulls which promptly gave me a touchdown. However, turn one surfs are even easier to pull off with nearly all your mans having frenzy.

    Overall, I think variety is a good thing, and if some poor sod wants to play them i don't see why we should get in his way.

  9. #9
    Secondary Hivemind Nexus Heliocentric's Avatar
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    Mmm.. I voted no, but I'm probably on the fence.
    I'm failing to writing a blog, specifically about playing games the wrong way
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  10. #10
    Secondary Hivemind Nexus laneford's Avatar
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    If the consensus is they're not OP, i'm happy for them to be in.

  11. #11
    Secondary Hivemind Nexus Screwie's Avatar
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    Still a no from me.

    The team's not in the CRP, it doesn't fit the lore and it doesn't even fit its own lore. In short it's poorly designed and shouldn't have been made in the first place, and for me that's enough.

  12. #12
    Secondary Hivemind Nexus Heliocentric's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by laneford View Post
    If the consensus is they're not OP, i'm happy for them to be in.
    They are certainly not op, but they are ugly, ill conceived and it's a kick in the teeth they took precedence over a dozen other types of team that could have legitimately improved the versatility of the game.

    Blood thirster should be a 700TV star player justified as a summon that's Blodge, claw, mighty blow, frenzy, no hands (he's not here for the ball) and st7.
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  13. #13
    Secondary Hivemind Nexus President Weasel's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Screwie View Post
    Still a no from me.

    The team's not in the CRP, it doesn't fit the lore and it doesn't even fit its own lore. In short it's poorly designed and shouldn't have been made in the first place, and for me that's enough.
    This.
    Having this team in moves us further from tabletop and FUMBBL. Not that I play either, but I enjoy being part of a continuity.

  14. #14
    Secondary Hivemind Nexus mrpier's Avatar
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    Voted yay because I don't think they are particularely good and I don't care that much about the blood bowl lore.

  15. #15
    Quote Originally Posted by Screwie View Post
    Still a no from me.

    The team's not in the CRP, it doesn't fit the lore and it doesn't even fit its own lore. In short it's poorly designed and shouldn't have been made in the first place, and for me that's enough.

    Yeah, the lore is a bit muddy, and yeah, the team was designed by cyanide to sell chaos edition (ooooh shiny bloodthirster) but honestly does it really matter if someone wants to play them? Nobody is saying that they are mandatory or anything like that, but if someone wants to why should we stop them? Stunties in the DoD have a similar, if not worse, disadvantage, and yet people still play them because they find them fun. I see no reason why this team is any different.

  16. #16
    Secondary Hivemind Nexus Screwie's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by SillyWhiteGuy View Post
    Yeah, the lore is a bit muddy, and yeah, the team was designed by cyanide to sell chaos edition (ooooh shiny bloodthirster) but honestly does it really matter if someone wants to play them? Nobody is saying that they are mandatory or anything like that, but if someone wants to why should we stop them? Stunties in the DoD have a similar, if not worse, disadvantage, and yet people still play them because they find them fun. I see no reason why this team is any different.
    I will apologise for the curtness of my previous post, but the reason for that is only because we've discussed this multiple times in the past and my opinions haven't changed.

    Stunties are among the best-designed teams in the game. Stunties have a longstanding tradition in BB lore even when it diverges form the main Warhammer lore, have probably have had more design time and revisions designed into them over the editions than most teams, and their stats and skill choices and roles make sense and are evocative of the personality of the races they represent.

    That's where the Khorne team fails - Cyanide couldn't manage that with Khorne (who, lest we forget, is dumb as bricks and the easiest of the Chaos gods to get right). The worst offenses are:

    • Passing skills.
    • Most bloodletters have Regeneration, but not the champion bloodletters!
    • The world's worst bloodthirster, because they wanted to shoehorn that stupid thing in somewhere between an accurate representation of a greater daemon and a player that wouldn't cost as much as Morg. It's a terrible compromise and paints what should be the most terrifying foe on any battlefield into something just a little better than a minotaur.
    • AV 8 for pit fighters also seems a bit weird compared to Norse/Amazon values, but it's not as bizarre as the choices above.

    The team needs a couple more passes before it will be internally consistent, and a few more to be evocative of Khorne.

    Shortly after its release there was a model-swapping mod that turned the Heralds into Khorngors and the Bloodthirster into a Herald, and frankly the stats and skill choices (except for that Passing thing) suddenly made so much sense. It paints even a champion lesser daemon of Khorne to be a scary big guy in its own right which makes Khorne seem scarier, not weaker. But Cyanide wanted their shiny big beasty.

    But this is on top of the fact it's not a legal team for tabletop (because Cyanide couldn't be bothered to write a full CRP star players list, for one). Cyanide's choices have only served to isolate their video game and fraction the playerbase. It may seem melodramatic, but endorsing this team in principle is endorsing them to continue to do more of the same in BB2.

    I am voting no. I can assure you, you won't be able to change my mind.

  17. #17
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    Khorne is now a playable team in TT tournaments at Warhammer World in Nottingham. Not attempting to change your mind Screwie, as I know you don't like them, but pretty much everywhere except this online league and FUMBBL is now happy with them.

  18. #18
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    I am not massively in favour of Khorne but it must be said that they are not a Cyanide designed team. They are a Starscrapper designed team - he's the guy who wrote the rules for LRB 6.

  19. #19
    Secondary Hivemind Nexus Heliocentric's Avatar
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    He put the bloodthirster in?

    I don't care who phoned them in, they are still phoned in.
    I'm failing to writing a blog, specifically about playing games the wrong way
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  20. #20
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    Dode was on the development team as well (he runs the Forum Open League and is a director of the OCC).

    Reading between the lines, they were given a relatively restricted brief by Cyanide and GW and tried to design a team that would be different enough from the other teams, but would not be overpowered and would not be just another high AV ultrabash team. I think they did a pretty decent job (lore excepted, but that's not their fault).

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