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  1. #21
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    I suggested a Mac Mini - he looked at iMacs and said "too pricey" - I again suggested a MAC MINI - he said "too pricey and too small".....

    He's not really a customer - I don't do PC support as a 'job' anymore, other than for people I've done it for in the past who ask - usually nicely I should add.

    It's a classic situation with PCs tho - someone wants a 'good one' but cannot really define that. History suggests his PCs became slow because he (or his wife) cannot stop installing shit on them - the sort of shit which installs toolbars, tasktray crap, registry 'performance improvers' - that sort of shit.

    A Mac would solve that - a Core i& with RAID1 SSDs probably wouldn't :()

  2. #22
    Secondary Hivemind Nexus Boris's Avatar
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    Which is why I suggested a Mac Mini, even though I think they're overpriced. They seem perfect for him. If it's too small, tell him he can put it inside his current computer to make it look bigger if he wants ;)

    If he's not a customer, it's even easier to just say "you ask for my advice and then proceed to ignore it at every turn. Why should I keep helping you? You obviously have this all figured out."

    I stopped doing computer "repair" for people who're not a direct relative because of people like him. Either they ignore you, and then they come back with "it's slow again it's your fault" when they installed a bunch of shit again. I still give advice, mostly because I like figuring out builds, but I don't feel obligated to keep providing that if they keep ignoring me.

  3. #23
    Secondary Hivemind Nexus Kadayi's Avatar
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    In all honesty it seems to me that you just need to be straight with him and tell him that he needs to quit installing crap and bloatware on his machine. Ensure he puts some decent spyware detection on his rig, and get into the habit of running regular scans, as well as using something like chrome and popup blocker.
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  4. #24
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    Quote Originally Posted by Kadayi View Post
    In all honesty it seems to me that you just need to be straight with him and tell him that he needs to quit installing crap and bloatware on his machine. Ensure he puts some decent spyware detection on his rig, and get into the habit of running regular scans, as well as using something like chrome and popup blocker.
    You realise none of that stuff works unless you actively make it work - which most people don't know how to do?

    I've installed allsorts to stop people getting this stuff and 6 months later they'll call because it's all there again.

    I've long-since given-up on preventing toolbars etc. getting onto people's PCs - people see a flashing icon and HAVE TO CLICK IT. They then claim they didn't click anything and 12 toolbars were all installed when they weren't at their PC at the time.

    Indeed, most anti-malware stuff usually causes more harm then good - piles of 'semi-uninstalled' toolbars etc. which have then been reinstalled by whatever put them there - the crippled again and so on.

    I assume it's either piracy or porn - tho in one case I had a laptop from a friend who's quite arty and an Etsy seller - it was cripped with junkware all from those 'free craft pattern' and 'free clipart' downloads...

    So it's piracy, porn or needlework then - but be in no-doubt, I'd say 80% of PCs get this shit, which explains why it's so worthwhile to people.

    If I had 10p for every browser I've "unhijacked" in homepage/search and toolbar terms, I'd have a lot of 10ps ;)

  5. #25
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    Quote Originally Posted by trjp View Post
    ....difficult customer
    Tell him to give you the specs then he will need to add +200 for you to put it all together and make it work for him. If he doesn't like that he can simply order the bits he wants and put it together himself (and he is on his own with that). The guy basically wants something for nothing and is not worth your time.

  6. #26
    Secondary Hivemind Nexus Kadayi's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by trjp View Post
    You realise none of that stuff works unless you actively make it work - which most people don't know how to do?
    It's hardly rocket science trjp.

    Quote Originally Posted by ZakG View Post
    Tell him to give you the specs then he will need to add +200 for you to put it all together and make it work for him. If he doesn't like that he can simply order the bits he wants and put it together himself (and he is on his own with that). The guy basically wants something for nothing and is not worth your time.
    Seconded. Get all up and running and secured to the hilt.
    Why yes you're right I'm deliciously evil

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  7. #27
    Secondary Hivemind Nexus Boris's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Kadayi View Post
    It's hardly rocket science trjp.
    You can't make it foolproof. He'll probably become a bigger fool.

    The MO of this guy is that he thinks he knows exactly what he needs. So when he thinks he's gonna need spyware_riddled_shit.exe he's going to damn well click on it.

  8. #28
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    Re. Asus drivers - the drivers definitely come laden with bloatware, but in every case I've experienced (and I've used all Asus in all my builds for years) the drivers themselves can easily be installed by pointing Device Manager at the download folder.

    I also have to second all the people questioning why you're doing this; in my experience clients like this are never, ever worth the money & time, relative/friend/whatever or no. I'd be going with ZakG's idea of getting him to spec it himself and adding your fee, or telling him to sling his hook entirely. Unless you fancy months worth of follow-up bullshit because you 'didn't build it properly'.

  9. #29
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    On the bloatware/crapware thing: Remember that commonly require applications, such as Acrobat Reader, Flash Player, Java and most free anti-virus software these days will attempt to install 3rd party toolbars. It's not just hunting for porn that winds you up with crap these days (although there are different "tiers" of crap, it has to be said).

    Trjp: Why are you doing this? It seems to be causing you more stress than it can possibly be worth (and out of all proportion too) for the both of you. Also, what is it that you want from us? Everything we've had to say so far you've shot down with either "he doesn't need that" or "that's not good enough for him". What magic do you expect us to work?

  10. #30
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    Why am I doing this - good question - when someone asks you a question it's usual to answer it, I got the "I'm not building you a PC" thing across easily but that doesn't stop him asking loads of questions - which I don't mind but we've got the classic situation here - of...

    "Hi - my PC isn't working and I know nothing about them - can you help"
    "Sure - let's just have a look at this"
    "No No - you don't want to look there - I know that the problem isn't there, shouldn't you look here..."

    :(

    There's also the general issue of how SHIT the Desktop PC marketplace actually is. The companies left making 'desktop' PCs are mostly aimed either at corporations, gamers or the odd 'sucker'. eBay is AWASH with PCs which are being mis-sold and over-egged and even formerly respected PC builders (I won't name names) seem keen to sell PCs which are offbrand/out-of-date/unsuitable for what they're advertising.

    Of course that's why most of us build our own - because there are so many variables that anything we look at will be 'wrong' - so imagine looking at that with a fraction of your understanding of PC hardware - imagine trying to reconcile what's being said in the ads, all those integers and stuff someone like us says...

    Summary: the desktop PC industry died of it's own neglect and elitism - the remains are like some Mad Max wasteland without the Fallout metagame :)

  11. #31
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    Okay then...

    Given you're generally one of the most caustic, impolite people on this forum, and allowing that I'm more than a touch drunk: how does that actually answer the question? Guy sounds like a complete muppet - I've no problem with ignorance, it's humanity's default state and there's nothing wrong with that so long as people are willing to admit to it, but given your propensity for being hugely abrasive towards folk both here and in the main site's comments I find it a bit odd you seem to be agonising so much over someone that, objectively speaking, sounds like an utter tit.

  12. #32
    Secondary Hivemind Nexus Grizzly's Avatar
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    Asus XOnar DG: Use Unixonar drivers.

  13. #33
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    I'm not really 'agonising' - this is one of those situations I thought people here might relish, talking PCs to someone who doesn't have the depth of knowledge and interest we do but who's just as entitled to have a nice PC.

    "Caustic and impolite" - phew - well - erm - if I was that in reality i guess people wouldn't ask :)

  14. #34
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    OK - we've reached an impasse between my suggestion and his wishes - I need a little backup or dissuading :)

    I specced an A6-based system with 8Gb, 1TB Hybrid HDD, quality case/PSU, Windows 8 for 400 built/delivered/warranted.

    He tinkered with that build until it was an i5-4670 system - price went up to 550

    Would YOU spend 150 on that upgrade? The only non-obvious gain is 4slot over 2slot memory on the board (yes that IS crap - maybe 16Gb from new instead?) - otherwise they have the same slots/onboard features.

    Note: no overclocking is going on - no additional GPU is going in - no games (beyond Bejewelled) are being played - odds of a future CPU upgrade are super-low too

  15. #35
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    I'd probably rather spend the money on an actual SSD.
    For day-to-day use, that has the biggest impact on reducing "frustration". When your boot up time is measured in seconds, and your browser start up time doesn't exist, that is fantastic (and you just don#t get the same real kick out of the hybrid drives). Depending on what applications are used, might be able to get away with just a 128gb SSD too, so saving money.

    The other thing I might want to spend the cash on is getting a nice, small case to put the whole thing in, or some comfortable peripherals.

  16. #36
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    SSD is out here for 2 reasons

    1 - fragility - I'm not putting a hand grenade in a user's PC - esp a user who won't bother backing-up stuff
    2 - space - they will fill-up a 120Gb drive (all they can afford) with every single bit of shit they install - probably within a month

    Last time I looked, their current PC had over 400Gb on the system drive - most of which was in AppData!!

    Yes, I could setup Dir Juncs but I can't anticipate every junkware program's attempt to fill the PC with shit - this is a KISS project wheras SSDs are for people who understand their PC and are willing to put in a bit of work keeping their system tidy and safely backed-up.

    I've used one of these hybrids and for people who don't run MASSIVE programs (e.g. games, 3D modelling etc.) they offer useful speed boosts (about 33-50% of a full SSD's benefit when booting, for example) without the downsides of fragility, space, needing to use separate drives etc.

    The only way I'd have used an SSD was if we could have afforded a pair to remove the risk element at least - and even then I reckon I'd just be buying myself more work later as they repeatedly fill the SSD.

    I can also tell him it's "an SSD and HDD in one" and solve that issue in a swipe :)

  17. #37
    Secondary Hivemind Nexus Sakkura's Avatar
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    SSDs are not fragile. They're more durable than HDDs.

  18. #38
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    Quote Originally Posted by Sakkura View Post
    SSDs are not fragile. They're more durable than HDDs.
    Very funny - in other news, pink is the new black and everyone is buying holiday homes in Skegness...

    I realise they're getting better but they're nowhere near HDDs in terms of how far I'd trust one - they have a finite life and even their warranties are shorter (which is as-good-a-sign as any that you shouldn't have high expectations for them!)

    Even if they were 100% solid, the size issue is enough to kill one here tho - expecting end-users to manage things like Directory Junctions is just unrealistic and 120Gb will fill-up REALLY fast if you don't manage it.

  19. #39
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    Still no-one fielding the "is an i5 worth 150 more than an A6" question I see? ;)

  20. #40
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    If the guy is such a butthole, I would just not help him out, lol.

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