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  1. #61
    Secondary Hivemind Nexus EsotericReverie's Avatar
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    Hooray! Well done!
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  2. #62
    Lesser Hivemind Node NickWhite's Avatar
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    Official. Another follower seeking enlightenment through the way of the Giraffe.

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  3. #63
    Network Hub Henlaaz's Avatar
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    Should use the twitter account more.. Cuckoo training reminders?

  4. #64
    Lesser Hivemind Node stoopiduk's Avatar
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    Resurrecting this thread to relieve the State of the Game thread, spurred by this from Cooper:

    I'm gonna be honest, whilst the comments about solo-ing here worry me, I'm guilty of it myself. For most of March / April, when I was playing, I played late at night and as a solo Heavy.

    It is much easier to be an effective fighting force as a solo player than part of an RPS platoon.

    The issue is, quite frankly, that we have PLs but not SLs on most nights. We have someone making decisions about where we fight, but not really about how we fight.

    Other outfits on Miller show how much a group of decent players working together can change the game. This requires not only decent individual skill but, more importantly, everyone being very disciplined in how they act and how they follow orders and, even more importantly, someone giving orders that are tactical, not just strategic PL stuff.

    Aside from when StratGir works well, we have lacked decent SLs in RPS for a very long time.
    Inspiring words.

    I suggest a theme week - Take the Giraffe by the horns.

    Veteran players nominate SLs and PLs and support them in-game. Someone in the game that you recognise but have never seen PL? Give them the reins, then offer them the support as a platoon to have a decent first experience. Same with SLs, if you've got a beacon, be ready to use it. If it means slightly longer redeploys, or some downtime while the SL/PL is helped getting their orders together, I still think the results will be better than everyone fracturing off and doing their own shit.

    Prompt the reluctant SL/PLs with questions and suggestions "this is what we're facing, how do you think best to deal with it? Here are a few options." It might even be that they just end up choosing one of the options you give them every time, but at least they get a look behind the curtain at the options SLs and PLs weigh up in certain situations.

    It might take a little time and effort from the regular PLs like Laldy, but nothing like the effort of PLing every night, and I know he and other experienced players are good at giving tactical support and advice to other players.

    For the forums- Fuck the boohoo posts about what's wrong and how great the glory days were, let's get some decent anecdotes full of last minute revives and the relentless slaughter of Reds and Blues. Here's one:

    I did a couple of hours PLing the other night and we broke two serious INI max crashes. I felt like a god. There were bulky red corpses everywhere, and most of our kills were of people at a considerably higher BR. The support of the platoon and outfit was great, and we stormed a more organised force with similar numbers through simply grouping up at the right time and cutting maxes to damn ribbons. Together.

    Sure things got a bit crap later on in my PLing, but I'll fucking deal with it and PL better next time, it's not a story worth telling.

    I attended the PL S4T on Sunday and largely knew it all already, and I'm sure there are others in a similar situation who have all the knowledge they'll ever get from training and talking, and just need to start gathering experience. I'll step up to SL too, in fact I think it might suit me better than PL, but I'll try both for a while. Anyone willing to offer pointers this Thursday/Friday? Be nice to take the top slot in a squad for more than beacon monkeying. If I don't take a PL or SL role when it's offered, you all better call me on my bullshit.

    Lets make this thread about solutions, not problems. Who's with me?

  5. #65
    Secondary Hivemind Nexus EsotericReverie's Avatar
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    Yay! Good initiative and a good story! I'm really happy to see you've rekindled your passion for the game, at least a little.

    I'll be playing some Planetside 2 this weekend, since my wife and son are going away. There's also a lot of other stuff going on, but I'll make sure to hop on whenever I can. I'll be happy to offer pointers to anyone who wants it. Would be fun to SL as well, if there can be someone else taking care of the strategic decisions.

    My real problem with leading RPS is when I have to be both PL (strategic leader) and SL (tactical leader) at the same time. One or the other I can handle, both at once just tends to go south really badly. I think that's because to devise tactics for a fight, I need to be in it, to see how things are going and figure out what's going on, but to make good strategy, I need to be looking a lot at the continent map and typing in leader chat or talking on TVA comms etc. I personally don't handle mulititasking between these jobs very well.

    While I realise that some people can do this and dislike delegating one or the other to someone else, I believe they are the minority. Would it help if we made sure that, as a rule, we don't expect our PLs to also set the tactics and direct the fights? I for one would be happy to step up for either role more often if I knew someone else would take care of the other.
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  6. #66
    Lesser Hivemind Node stoopiduk's Avatar
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    Probably just in time for a patch to cock it all up, but let's see!

    Yes I think we should separate the roles wherever we can, my short experience of having both roles was quite overwhelming.

    Tackling the roles one at a time should be much more friendly for those stepping up for the first time. A good point!

  7. #67
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    Quote Originally Posted by EsotericReverie View Post

    My real problem with leading RPS is when I have to be both PL (strategic leader) and SL (tactical leader) at the same time. .
    So don't! I used to try and do this to, but last Friday really enjoyed platoon leading because I had a solid squad leader (props to JeffJeff) telling me what to do in the game while I was telling him what to do at a more strategic level (and apologies for the few points where I tried to squad lead as well Jeffington). It's probably part of what stoopid says - if you've got more people willing to be squad leads you can step away from that role and take the more strategic aspect.

    While I'm not a full time giraffe, I'd be happy to sit in a mumble channel with anyone that is interested and help out with a bit of mentoring.

  8. #68
    Secondary Hivemind Nexus Dominicus's Avatar
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    Maybe you should ask yourself, if there is a problem, where it is.

    Lack of knowledge?
    Lack of Interest?
    Hostile environment?
    Complexity?

    Once you find the problem you can work on fixing it, otherwise you just patch it and return to the same old story in about 1-2 months. Like last time, or the time before that, or......
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  9. #69
    Secondary Hivemind Nexus Dewi's Avatar
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    I believe it's a mixture of 1,2 and 4, along with a healthy dose of not wanting to get it wrong.

    Well people, I have news for you. When you start PLing, you will get it wrong. As you do it more often, you will get more experience and develop a better understanding of what you need to do, and you WILL STILL GET IT WRONG!

    But that's not a bad thing. There are regular PL's who still make wrong calls, just as much as they make right ones. What's the difference between them making an error and a new PL? Confidence in making the decision.

    I'm guilty of this. As a PL you always want everyone to have fun. You're in charge, we're playing a game, it's natural. But it doesn't matter what you do, as long as there is something to shoot, people are happy.

    You're not gonna win every fight, sometimes it's gonna feel like it's going badly, but if you stick by your decisions, no one will ever know you made a bad decision.

    And in fact there is no "bad decision" per se, the only real bad decision is indecision. Not sure, ask your squad what to do, pick your favourite and tell them to get on with it. As you do it more, you'll need to do this a lot less.
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  10. #70
    Lesser Hivemind Node stoopiduk's Avatar
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    I see your point and respect it, but there are so many threads in this forum that have debated the causes of these problems with no real progress. I for one can't be bothered reading through another one that ends with cock all happening or changing.

    Probably a whole load of posts with people saying they'd like to lead a rejuvenation spree too, but if nothing else I'm suggesting, and intend to take, some action against things going stale.

    I'll keep your points in mind if/when we do go down the route of pushing people to PL and SL, there might be something we can do to remove those barriers.

  11. #71
    Quote Originally Posted by Dewi View Post
    And in fact there is no "bad decision" per se, the only real bad decision is indecision..
    This is what I have found from my limited SL experience, I spend to long deciding on the course of action once I have the objective. I need to let go of analyzing too much before and just go with my gut and then analyse after to understand better next time.

    Whilst I have not been around much around Easter due to travelling I am still determined to SL on stratgir nights and others where we have a PL. You have at least one new(ish) guy coming up and feel free keep giving me squad even when I don't volunteer quickly.

  12. #72
    Secondary Hivemind Nexus Dominicus's Avatar
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    My point is that this "problem" is not new and has come up so many times that you could say that all that has been tried in the past has not worked. Trainings where scheduled, mentoring has taken place, guidance has been offered. And based on the amount of people that showed up on the SL S4T, combining both sessions we had at least 10-15 new SL's, so interest is also not a problem.

    Based on that I would have to say the problem is either deeper, the mentality of RPS as an outfit itself, or the position itself is seen with hostility or fear.

    The question I wish to raise, as it might be interesting, why has RPS a SL problem while RTRS has not/lesser? We are the same community, roughly same type of people.
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  13. #73
    Secondary Hivemind Nexus bonkers's Avatar
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    So I am back from Sweden (lovely country you chaps have there) and will be trying to set up Mumble and SL a bit within the next days. Planned on doing that anyway but it seems like the right time to get my ass up and set up my keybinds.

    PS: Why are the default PS2 keybindings all over the place? Some keys are even bound to actions that are not mentioned in the key bindings menu. It's a mess.
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  14. #74
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    Quote Originally Posted by Dominicus View Post
    The question I wish to raise, as it might be interesting, why has RPS a SL problem while RTRS has not/lesser? We are the same community, roughly same type of people.
    To be honest, I think it comes down to an individual personality level. There are some people that just don't want to tell people what to do, or rather, *prefer* being told what to do by someone else. We may just have more of a particular kind of personality than RPS.

    As an aside, something that could work would be splitting into smaller squads when there's enough people online. So instead of running a 12 man squad and only opening Bravo squad on the 13th, split into two or 3 squads (or just call them fire teams) early on to give people the experience of leading a smaller group of people.

  15. #75
    Secondary Hivemind Nexus WallyTrooper's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Dominicus View Post
    The question I wish to raise, as it might be interesting, why has RPS a SL problem while RTRS has not/lesser? We are the same community, roughly same type of people.
    Warning: negativity (sorry!)

    I'm guessing a bit because I don't know RTRS that well but I think it might be to do with the turnover of regulars. Look back at who played in the early days (you can use old forums threads as a proxy for this) and then check it again every 3 months or so. [RPS] has had massive turnover with only a handful of people who played at launch still playing and of those many of them like me are much less invested in the outfit than we were. The change over of people makes it hard to make progress. We discuss something, make progress, and then 70% of those who helped fall away and we get a new influx of people and end up back where we started. I think (correct me if I'm wrong) that RTRS has less turnover and its smaller size means it's easier to integrate new people and bring them up to speed with what's been decided and worked out previously. [RPS] has no mandatory training program so realistically unless something changes about the fundamentals of who plays, who stays and how we retain knowledge I'm not hopeful about this making lasting change. I don't mean to be a doomsayer but it's hard not to be sceptical when you've seen so many (and actively contributed to so many) of these initiatives before.

    I don't want this to be a purely negative post so here's a positive suggestion to make things better: speed things up a lot. [RPS] still takes an age to redeploy and is too rigid about sticking together. If we were to say 'everyone get to the next base ASAP' then people might take advantage of options available to them (e.g. if they can instant action there) and not simply ask "where's the sundy?". If people take the initiative a bit more it lightens the load on SLs and speeds things up. Grouping up is a strong tactic for crashing defensive positions but not always helpful. Imagine a rugby scrum: great for pushing hard over short distances, shit for winning a 100m sprint as a group.
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  16. #76
    Lesser Hivemind Node stoopiduk's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Dominicus View Post
    The question I wish to raise, as it might be interesting, why has RPS a SL problem while RTRS has not/lesser? We are the same community, roughly same type of people.
    I appreciate your interest here but there is no value in a question that just spawns hundreds of words of navel gazing, a pastime that this outfit can do plenty of without prompt. I know I've read plenty of comparisons before, it's fruitless.

    For the purpose of this thread, the main difference between RTRS and RPS is that this thread is marked [VS] and [RPS]. It doesn't matter what the other guys are doing, they are different people. I'm genuinely happy you traitorous scum don't have this problem, but we cannot copy paste mentalities and personalities.

    Everyone, before you add a reply to this post:

    It doesn't matter who's sceptical, that is of absolutely no benefit to this process whatsoever. Think it's a shitty idea that you've seen before and it has no legs? Fine, but don't stand up and start telling everyone. Sit down and shut up else unless you have a better idea, something constructive, to take this discussion and outfit forwards.

    It doesn't matter what happened at the launch of the game, it doesn't matter who used to step up to take which roles. A lot of those people aren't here any more. We have the members that we have and we will make a better outfit from those building blocks.

    Thank you for strategy suggestions and signs of interest. I don't agree with all of the strategy suggestions, but ultimately what's been mentioned comes down to a PL/SL decision. You can guarantee I'll follow the orders if I'm in platoon.

    There is one very easy way to see your strategies put into force. If people don't like it, they can offer to take the chair or roll a solo heavy.

  17. #77
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    Quote Originally Posted by stoopiduk View Post
    Lets make this thread about solutions, not problems. Who's with me?
    Yes! And everything else you said as well. Seconded (thirded?) the theme week idea.

    I still think the best way to get more SL/PLs is to mentor new people. Basically exactly what Stoopid suggests: when a new SL/PL is needed, instead of just press ganging a vet into doing it, press gang them into mentoring someone instead. It would be much less work for the vet and it will accelerate the newbie's learning, and probably provide fun fights for all to boot!

    Quote Originally Posted by EsotericReverie View Post
    My real problem with leading RPS is when I have to be both PL (strategic leader) and SL (tactical leader) at the same time. One or the other I can handle, both at once just tends to go south really badly. I think that's because to devise tactics for a fight, I need to be in it, to see how things are going and figure out what's going on, but to make good strategy, I need to be looking a lot at the continent map and typing in leader chat or talking on TVA comms etc. I personally don't handle mulititasking between these jobs very well.

    While I realise that some people can do this and dislike delegating one or the other to someone else, I believe they are the minority. Would it help if we made sure that, as a rule, we don't expect our PLs to also set the tactics and direct the fights? I for one would be happy to step up for either role more often if I knew someone else would take care of the other.
    Great points, this seems very important. When people talk about being really effective in fights it is due to good leadership on the ground. Telling a Gal exactly what building to drop on, calling on the squad to all hit one vehicle, even just entering a base and quickly telling people which buildings to cover. Reminding people to cover doors but stay back from them, grouping up before a push. This is how you win fights and feel like a badass! Eso's suggestion of separating PL and SL by default is a really good one. Can we do this please?

    (And not intended to be negative, but to make Eso's suggestion work smoothly: when PL and SL are separate you do have to keep an eye on squads to make sure the SL is getting involved properly. Mentoring SLs as Stoopid suggests would help with this. Sometimes inexperienced SLs need a kick up the bum to start engaging properly, sometimes they need to slow down a bit to give everyone time to respond to orders. With more regular use of highly engaged SLs good practice should be a lot easier to pick up just from playing, but it will require keeping an eye on/encouraging in the meantime.)
    Last edited by Rizlar; 20-05-2014 at 01:30 PM.

  18. #78
    Secondary Hivemind Nexus Dewi's Avatar
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    Stoopid, whilst I like the passion, let's leave the aggression at the door.

    Whilst Dom makes some good points, comparing the two outfits is like comparing apples and oranges. There are similar people in both, but as Wally points out the turnovers introduces additional elements.

    Firstly, many of our "leaders" come and go very often. Sometimes they tire of the game, sometimes they burn out from leading all too often, some haven't agreed with the direction of the outfit (that's a discussion for another thread). Some continue to play, but have a disdain for leading, in all it's forms due to people not following orders (I sit firmly in this camp), which leads into my second point.

    Secondly, new players tend to find it more difficult following orders. Not through malice, but because the game is a confusing clusterfuck of a bastard when you first start. "What are we shooting at? Why are we going to this thing? What IS this thing? I'm being shot! I'm Dead! Where's my squad? They're over there? Where can I spawn? That's a base away! How do I get back? I'm so rubbish I'd better not say anything or they might get mad!"

    Sound familiar? We've all been there. But it's not just new players who are guilty of not following orders, or being irritating and doing something the PL/SL doesn't know about (I sit firmly in this camp also). An example would be just a couple of days ago, PL orders everyone into Galaxies to drop on a base. The galaxies fly over and 6 people drop on the point, out of about 20. 6! The others were arseing about in vehicles and hadnt told the PL (who was learning I might add, hadn't really done it before). That just makes a PL/SL very frustrated.

    My point is, we need to make PL/SLing more attractive. Learning from RTRS is a good start. On a given night a PL should PL for an hour only. After that hour it is everyone's responsibility to offer to take over, and not just the same people (I'm looking at you Laldy you soft bugger). it looks a lot better if you think "Well, it's only an hour, let's give it a shot!"

    Then, whilst we do get a bit over the top with sticking together, let's try a different form of squad cohesion. Be at the same base. If you want to pull a vehicle when the PL/SL hasnt told you to, ask! If they agree, you understand that your vehicle is forfeit if they order you into a galaxy or ask everyone to group up for a MAX crash.

    TL;DR - 1 hour PL shifts. Make leading less arduous by listening to the PL/SL. Oh and if you're new ASK ALL OF THE QUESTIONS! No matter how stupid you think they might be!


    Oh and Rizlar is right. Stuff the will of Vanu. We all know who is capable of leading but doesn't (me included). Instead of just logging off, find one of these people and give them lead and tell them. They are then obligated to do it for 30 minutes rather than a full hour before they can do the same, or continue for the full hour if they so wish.
    Last edited by Dewi; 20-05-2014 at 01:51 PM. Reason: Stupid Bastard Smiley
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  19. #79
    Lesser Hivemind Node stoopiduk's Avatar
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    Excellent! "lets compare RTRS and RPS," not helpful, "RTRS do this cool one hour PL thing, we should do it," helpful!

    I'm all for the one hour rule, and will happily subscribe to fighting the map for 60 minutes.

  20. #80
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    Quote Originally Posted by Dewi View Post
    An example would be just a couple of days ago, PL orders everyone into Galaxies to drop on a base. The galaxies fly over and 6 people drop on the point, out of about 20. 6! The others were arseing about in vehicles and hadnt told the PL (who was learning I might add, hadn't really done it before). That just makes a PL/SL very frustrated.
    Seems like having a dedicated SL would have helped here. While the PL is busy doing other stuff, the SL is the one who can spot that a bunch of people are in vehicles and either relay that up or tell them to gtfo and into the gal.

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