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  1. #1
    Secondary Hivemind Nexus squirrel's Avatar
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    Can Believe that Dragon Ball Franchise Has Been Revived

    I thought the franchise has RIP, yet it has been revived. The latest video game even has PC port.

    http://www.dragonballxenoverse.com/en/

    You standard 3D arena fighter game. I rather worry about Japanese anime industry, it seems it has run out of talent that old franchises like such classics kept being worked on until the last drop of its life.

  2. #2
    Secondary Hivemind Nexus Xercies's Avatar
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    Dragonball games have been coming out for awhile, in fact very recently. Also there was an anime film not so long ago...

  3. #3
    Secondary Hivemind Nexus
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    Everything in Japanese media (with the possible exception of film) is so incredibly commericalised. Whereas artists in the west consider themselves to be artists, and therefore feel some kind of artistic ownership of their works, artists in Japan seem to mainly consider themselves employees. Therefore the role of the art is to generate maximum revenue for their company.

    Hence stories being dragged out far longer than the original creator intended, or being exploited mercilessly in terms of advertising and promotion.

    I'm fully aware that the same thing happens in the US/UK, but there just seems to be a much more transparent attitude to it here. Maybe that's more open and honest, I guess... but it just seems so... blatantly mercenary at times.

  4. #4
    Secondary Hivemind Nexus Lukasz's Avatar
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    DB franchise had never died. There is a new movie coming out because previous movie made money.
    There was Dragon Ball Kai few years ago which redid original DBZ and it cut all the anime filler making the anime much closer to the manga.
    DBZ games had been released on yearly basis since early 2000s. So xenoverse is nothing new.

  5. #5
    Secondary Hivemind Nexus squirrel's Avatar
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    My parents are so puzzled about Dragon Balls. My dad asked me, "Is there such thing as "Death" in the universe of Dragon Balls? It seems people just travel from one world to another, with a halo on top required in some worlds." I really don't know how to answer him, because I too am so confused.

    That's why the storyline will never have an ending, I guess.
    Last edited by squirrel; 28-02-2015 at 11:57 AM.

  6. #6
    Secondary Hivemind Nexus Wenz's Avatar
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    It's been running for 20/30 years here to the point I grown a physical inability to watch it.
    Last edited by Wenz; 28-02-2015 at 12:07 PM.

  7. #7
    Secondary Hivemind Nexus rockman29's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by BillButNotBen View Post
    Everything in Japanese media (with the possible exception of film) is so incredibly commericalised. Whereas artists in the west consider themselves to be artists, and therefore feel some kind of artistic ownership of their works, artists in Japan seem to mainly consider themselves employees. Therefore the role of the art is to generate maximum revenue for their company.

    Hence stories being dragged out far longer than the original creator intended, or being exploited mercilessly in terms of advertising and promotion.

    I'm fully aware that the same thing happens in the US/UK, but there just seems to be a much more transparent attitude to it here. Maybe that's more open and honest, I guess... but it just seems so... blatantly mercenary at times.
    I think it's because it's Dragonball, and it's that popular? Like Pokemon is so popular?

    How is it any more than the commercialization of say.... Transformers? Or Marvel and DC Comics characters? Spiderman sells by far the most merchandise with kids among superheroes for example.

    That's an awfully large brushstroke to use upon all of Japanese media, and I can tell you it doesn't apply. A very silly comment to paint all Japanese studios with.
    Quote Originally Posted by squirrel View Post
    I thought the franchise has RIP, yet it has been revived. The latest video game even has PC port.

    http://www.dragonballxenoverse.com/en/

    You standard 3D arena fighter game. I rather worry about Japanese anime industry, it seems it has run out of talent that old franchises like such classics kept being worked on until the last drop of its life.
    Quote Originally Posted by squirrel View Post
    My parents are so puzzled about Dragon Balls. My dad asked me, "Is there such thing as "Death" in the universe of Dragon Balls? It seems people just travel from one world to another, with a halo on top required in some worlds." I really don't know how to answer him, because I too am so confused.

    That's why the storyline will never have an ending, I guess.
    I see China is doing very well with their cultural exports. Hmmm.... wait what shows are those again? We're not exporting as much as Japan, so let's just criticize Japan for fun.

    I'm quite impressed that your family has such deep and meaningful discussions about pop culture cartoon shows though.
    Last edited by rockman29; 28-02-2015 at 12:23 PM.

  8. #8
    Secondary Hivemind Nexus Heliocentric's Avatar
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    In the UK there are 2 kinds of domestically produced TV show, those cramming everything they can into a short run and those which have no intention of ever finishing.

    What's horrifying is when one is forced into becoming the other by over/under popularity.
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  9. #9
    Secondary Hivemind Nexus Wenz's Avatar
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    I can't watch doctor who either

  10. #10
    Secondary Hivemind Nexus Lukasz's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by rockman29 View Post
    .I see China is doing very well with their cultural exports. Hmmm.... wait what shows are those again? We're not exporting as much as Japan, so let's just criticize Japan for fun.

    I'm quite impressed that your family has such deep and meaningful discussions about pop culture cartoon shows though.
    where the hell this negative comment comes from?

    The lack of consequences of death in DB universe is a common valid criticism. It is brilliantly pointed out in DBZ Abridged. Do recommend watching it...
    and criticism of stuff being rehashed and remake is also valid.
    so I really don't know why you would get so confrontational...

  11. #11
    Secondary Hivemind Nexus rockman29's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Lukasz View Post
    where the hell this negative comment comes from?

    The lack of consequences of death in DB universe is a common valid criticism. It is brilliantly pointed out in DBZ Abridged. Do recommend watching it...
    and criticism of stuff being rehashed and remake is also valid.
    so I really don't know why you would get so confrontational...
    A trend of anti-Japanese content/culture posting by him and
    I rather worry about Japanese anime industry, it seems it has run out of talent that old franchises like such classics kept being worked on until the last drop of its life.
    10char10char

  12. #12
    Secondary Hivemind Nexus Xercies's Avatar
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    If you look at blogs writing about all the anime coming out now you realize its very diverse and not dominated by big anime, we only get a fraction of it in the west and yeah its going to be the big ones so we get a skewed look into it.

    Also yeah I feel a bit of cultural alieness from you Ben oh Japan is just full of franchises, we do it but we are totally different when Japan does it its totally worse etc.

  13. #13
    Secondary Hivemind Nexus
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    "I think it's because it's Dragonball, and it's that popular? Like Pokemon is so popular?

    How is it any more than the commercialization of say.... Transformers? Or Marvel and DC Comics characters? Spiderman sells by far the most merchandise with kids among superheroes for example.

    That's an awfully large brushstroke to use upon all of Japanese media, and I can tell you it doesn't apply. A very silly comment to paint all Japanese studios with."

    It's not a comment, it's a general impression. Not limited to manga/anime, but to Japanese media as a whole.
    There are of course exceptions, but the general impression that I get is definitely that the art plays second fiddle to the business. Maybe that's true in the west too, but I don't remember it being so blatantly obvious.

    Then again, I was never really into western comics that much, and they aren't as big as manga in Japan and so don't have such an impact. But I guess they also are dragged out forever and don't really have much in the way of author ownership. And are hence more open to blatant exploitation and commercialisation than something with a single author.

    I guess there must be examples of Japanese authors/artists/ celebrities who have turned down commercial opportunities in because they don't feel that they are appropriate or that they don't fit with the work in question. I'm just struggling to think of any...

  14. #14
    Secondary Hivemind Nexus
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    PS/ It may just be that I'm more sensitive to Japanese commercialisation than western commercialisation. But... er... no, actually, it isn't.
    I may be less aware of western commericalisation due to being used to it though, I guess.

  15. #15
    Secondary Hivemind Nexus Lukasz's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by BillButNotBen View Post
    I guess there must be examples of Japanese authors/artists/ celebrities who have turned down commercial opportunities in because they don't feel that they are appropriate or that they don't fit with the work in question. I'm just struggling to think of any...
    Are you Japanese Ben?
    Cause to say something like that requires a very deep and wide knowledge of the culture.

    What we get in the west is only fraction of what is actually available in the country. What we get is distilled by random people....
    we can't just go to the shop and pick some great work. it first has to be approved by the company, translated and then approved by the shop. and that will be done only if the manga sells so very niche product which was created for art not for money making won't be officially translated.
    then we get fan translations. It requires teams dedicated to the manga to do it for free on regular basis. They are also impacted by how commercial the manga really is. They won't spend dozens of hours on manga which only fifty people read, even if the manga is where art plays the most important part...

    some of the more artistic, not made just for money stuff does travel to western countries.

    Voices of a distant star - Done by single guy on his own budget only after it proved to be amazing it was released professionally.
    Yokohama Kaidashi Kiko: beautiful manga, definitely not one to be huge cash maker yet it was done because author wanted to tell the story in such an amazing way. could have added death robots and blood but that would ruin his story...
    Hellsing: full of blood and death robots... and yet done without much care about the business side of the thing. Author did it his way, on his schedule. thats art even though it did sell well.
    and are you forgetting Miyazaki? Is it more commercialized than western animation?

    and that's only stuff which is also popular in the west. there are tens of thousands of things which is never translated, never reaches foreign major sites.

    therefore judging culture based only on export is a bit shallow in my personal opinion.

  16. #16
    Secondary Hivemind Nexus Wenz's Avatar
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    kannotojo and they guy behind the bullet man come to mind, or the whole doujinshi stuff to begin with.
    I still wonder about the live action mania and how nothing comes out of it

  17. #17
    Secondary Hivemind Nexus Wenz's Avatar
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    blergh I meant tannokojo e tsukamoto shinya as indie film makers, I'm still not sure about the spelling, or my favourites q hayashida and nihei I post like a broken disc.
    I'm not even arguing the industry issues because I always needed to dig to find stuff I liked no matter the entertainment

  18. #18
    Secondary Hivemind Nexus alms's Avatar
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    Honestly I stopped caring about all Dragonball after the first couple seasons of the original manga adaptation. After seeing the Hokuto no Ken anime, a film or two, and Saint Seiya, I feel stocked up on drawn out fights and pointless drama for possibly the rest of my life.

    Quote Originally Posted by rockman29 View Post
    I see China is doing very well with their cultural exports.
    Giv'em time.

    Quote Originally Posted by Lukasz View Post
    where the hell this negative comment comes from?
    Did you not see the two quotes from the post you're quoting ?

    The first one has squirrel(TM)'s sweeping generalizations, the second is pretty much troll bait for get off your high horse replies. Plus there's the nationalist angle, he even got warned by mods because he keeps doing that.
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  19. #19
    Quote Originally Posted by BillButNotBen View Post
    I guess there must be examples of Japanese authors/artists/ celebrities who have turned down commercial opportunities in because they don't feel that they are appropriate or that they don't fit with the work in question. I'm just struggling to think of any...
    That could be because, if you are a Japanese author who does that, you don't get any big commercial opportunities, and thus your work is not translated into English or shown in the West in any form.

    Though I get where you come from - the fact that the usual path of success for mangaka is for someone to start making an anime adaptation of their work before it's even done and then improvising on what the ending should be is downright bizarre in my eyes.

  20. #20
    Secondary Hivemind Nexus somini's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by rockman29 View Post
    I see China is doing very well with their cultural exports.
    It is, particularly when they ruthlessly criticize China's status quo and their past. Not commercial successes, more arthouse stuff.
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