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  1. #301
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    Quote Originally Posted by squirrel View Post
    So please forgive me to ask this but...... what's the chance Ukraine can reclaim Crimea?
    None. While Russia supports separatists and self-determination in other countries it's not so keen about it on their own turf. (RF actually passed a law for stricter criminal responsibility for separatism this spring. Also the Crimean Tatars that participated in recent protests were dubbed "extremists" and there is an ongoing prosecution against them.) While the economic situation in the Crimea would hardly live to the expectations of pro-russian crimeans still a partial dissolution of RF would be required to get the Crimea back. (Which may be not completely out of the question considering RF's share of internal conflicts, dwindling freedoms and not-so-bright economy. However even more liberal Russian politicians usually consider the Crimea a Russian territory.)

  2. #302
    Secondary Hivemind Nexus Xercies's Avatar
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    but the sanctions can't well be in effect forever, can they?


    Aren't there a few countries like Iran and North Korea that we are pretty much sanctioning forever because they won't stop with their evil ways?

  3. #303
    Secondary Hivemind Nexus Fanbuoy's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Xercies View Post
    Aren't there a few countries like Iran and North Korea that we are pretty much sanctioning forever because they won't stop with their evil ways?[/COLOR]
    Well, more or less. The sanctions tend to be lessened when they are good boys and sharpened again when they're naughty. But Russia is different. There's a significant exchange going on between Russia and many western nations, and western companies have invested heavily in Russia. Russia is also a major global power. Having these restrictions in place indefinitely is to the benefit of no one, I believe. Long term, cooperation is the way forward (granted, that's probably not the case for Putin & co).

  4. #304
    Secondary Hivemind Nexus Fumarole's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Fanbuoy View Post
    but the sanctions can't well be in effect forever, can they?
    Ask Cuba about that.
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  5. #305
    Secondary Hivemind Nexus squirrel's Avatar
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    Well, economic sanction turns out to be double-sided edge. We suddenly find Russia's economic sanction against the west works in our favor.

    http://www.marketwatch.com/story/wha...ces-2014-08-08

    Cheap Salmon, gogogo~~~

    Even though American consumers not likely to enjoy the price decrease according to this report, East Asia consumers may. Bring it on, Rus, don't back down. You are my hero. Hahaha~

  6. #306
    Secondary Hivemind Nexus jnx's Avatar
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    I'd be interested in hearing from the locals what the current situation and mood is in Ukraine. Alexius still with us?
    Twitter! Occasional impressions on random sim games.

  7. #307
    Secondary Hivemind Nexus coldvvvave's Avatar
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    Pretty much all non-expat ukrainians I knew on all forums I frequented went offline since mid-June.
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  8. #308
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    I'm with you, although a bit late.
    Speaking of mood in general people are still really enthusiastic about the war effort, but critical of the government and of the military leadership especially. Government is criticized for the lack of reforms. The military is criticized for inefficiency in supplying the army, poor coordination between different branches and the fiasco near Ilovaysk. Actually before Ilovaysk people were mostly pretty optimistic about the conflict and expected it to end in a few month. But now when Russian army is almost in the open and has taken hold of territories near Azov sea and strengthened the separatists around Donetsk and Lugansk people wonder how it will end.
    Day-to-day life in Kiev is pretty much business as usual if you ignore news and stay out of military hospitals and refugee centers. Except for the economic going down, which is comparable to the 2008 financial crisis. And the lack of hot water. As most ex-Soviet cities Kiev has municipal central heating and they are trying to save on natural gas for the winter.
    Overall it's hard to gauge the mood because social media are prone to hectic mood swings and can't serve as a good indicator. Naturally people are very concerned with the future, shocked at the war and outraged with Russia. Some people put the blame on Kiev for being undiplomatic in Spring and some people still watch Russian TV, however I'm not ware about any notable pro-Russian activities outside the war zone. (Which may be seen as a lack of freedom of speech.)
    As for the current events the big ones are the cease-fire (people are skeptical about it and suspicious of the price, but overall relived on some level that killing has almost stopped for now) and the start with the parliament elections (the new political landscape is still forming, currently it looks to be based on personalities, not ideas, but still it's far better than the East vs. West divide with all it's conflict mongering when people voted for one side because they didn't like the other one more).

  9. #309
    Moderator QuantaCat's Avatar
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    As for the western side of the fence: people seem to use ukraine as a crux for proving that the russians were bad after all. Its quite silly and insane since the us and the eu are equally to blame for how this situation got so out of hand at the cost of bystanders, essentially.

    I hope ukraine finds its way out of this without bloodshed, and more importantly without russia or eu/us getting a say in its peoples future.
    - Tom De Roeck.

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    "Quantacat's name is still recognised even if he watches on with detached eyes like Peter Molyneux over a cube in 3D space, staring at it with tears in his eyes, softly whispering... Someday they'll get it."

  10. #310
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    Quote Originally Posted by QuantaCat View Post
    Its quite silly and insane since the us and the eu are equally to blame for how this situation got so out of hand at the cost of bystanders, essentially.
    For me it looks like you're taking too much upon yourself. It's not like USA and EU drove a hate-mongering campaign in Ukraine, annexed part of its territory, encouraged armed separatism and so on. The blame is mostly on Ukraine and Russia.

  11. #311
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    Quote Originally Posted by Alexius View Post
    For me it looks like you're taking too much upon yourself. It's not like USA and EU drove a hate-mongering campaign in Ukraine, annexed part of its territory, encouraged armed separatism and so on. The blame is mostly on Ukraine and Russia.
    true but they did offer a shit deal, and when it wasnt a surefire thing, the US came in and stoked the fire. Conflicts arent just with armed forces, you know.

    Either way, the people are the victims, not the ones in charge.
    - Tom De Roeck.

    verse publications & The Shopkeeper, an interactive short.

    "Quantacat's name is still recognised even if he watches on with detached eyes like Peter Molyneux over a cube in 3D space, staring at it with tears in his eyes, softly whispering... Someday they'll get it."

  12. #312
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    Quote Originally Posted by QuantaCat View Post
    and when it wasnt a surefire thing, the US came in and stoked the fire.
    Eh?

    Quote Originally Posted by QuantaCat View Post
    Either way, the people are the victims, not the ones in charge.
    Tell that to Yanukovych :)

    Quote Originally Posted by QuantaCat View Post
    Conflicts arent just with armed forces, you know.
    Yes, I sure do. That's why I mentioned the hatemongering as the first point.
    Last edited by Alexius; 13-09-2014 at 11:53 AM.

  13. #313
    Moderator QuantaCat's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Alexius View Post
    Eh?
    McCain himself came and dropped off some "protestors". Dont have the links handy. Its a moot point right now, I just hope Ukraine can be independant again.
    - Tom De Roeck.

    verse publications & The Shopkeeper, an interactive short.

    "Quantacat's name is still recognised even if he watches on with detached eyes like Peter Molyneux over a cube in 3D space, staring at it with tears in his eyes, softly whispering... Someday they'll get it."

  14. #314
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    As people joke in Kiev "If you can't find a sock, call your friend in Moscow. He knows what happens here better than you."
    Being in Kiev all this time, reading news, watching live streams and participating in the events, I believe that the role of US and EU in "stoking the fires" was marginal at best. Unless they mind-controlled Yanukovych, his party and the police to do all these things that outraged people. Support from EU and US were seen as way too little, way too late by the protesters at the time.

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