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  1. #21
    Lesser Hivemind Node eRa's Avatar
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    ^

    Needs staring eyes tag.

  2. #22
    Secondary Hivemind Nexus Grizzly's Avatar
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    I'd say Merkel and Sarkozy fit for that "Great men" title of yours,

  3. #23
    Secondary Hivemind Nexus squirrel's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Tritagonist View Post
    It's going to be hard to beat this team when it comes to 'warping the very fabric of reality'.

    How much wealth they made for themselves through the wars in the early 2000s?

    Okay seriously, not fair to count Gen. Colin Powell in. He was a pacifist and resigned early exactly for disagreement with Bush.

  4. #24
    Secondary Hivemind Nexus SirKicksalot's Avatar
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    They also had a trebuchet which broke down so they replaced it with a giant sling.

  5. #25
    Secondary Hivemind Nexus squirrel's Avatar
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    If you have watched a 2003 Hong Kong movie Infernal Affairs (Hollywoods bought up the concept to refilm it as Departed, which was far less well-received than the original movie), you would know that police has a technology as a powerful tools against public unrest: identifying all phone numbers of mobiles in a designated area, and subsequently identifying users of those mobiles. You all know Ukraine is a scientific state, right? So this is how their government is employing cutting-edge technology: on the dark side

    http://www.news.com.au/world/ukraine...-1226808357575

    Now I believe that this administration has committed serious crime against its people. Justice or not it has to be downed. They should feel lucky that they are not held for high treason - for now.

    Quote Originally Posted by SirKicksalot View Post
    "Run, Forrest, Run!"


    Okay seriously, I seriously feel for those officers. I mean it. This is their job, and their superiors put them into this situation against the people they are obligated to protect. If they really understand their honor as policemen, they should make the right decision: switch side to join their people to bring down the traitorous, criminal government which is selling out their country to the polar bear, like their precedessor, the Soviet army did over two decades ago.

    This is the major problem of Ukraine, to permit former Soviet bureaucrats to remain in power, while most of them are very corrupted, and hell if they are not corrupted they won't lose the once great nation of the USSR in the first place. They must be ousted from political theater.
    Last edited by squirrel; 25-01-2014 at 11:33 AM.

  6. #26
    Moderator QuantaCat's Avatar
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    its also quite silly that they were firing rounds that were developed just for police use (swat special rounds for opening doors and shit) and the government keeps insisting that no police lethal force was used.

    dear me.

    No matter if you like putin or not, this is not worth it.
    - Tom De Roeck.

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  7. #27
    Lesser Hivemind Node Fanbuoy's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by squirrel View Post
    This is the major problem of Ukraine, to permit former Soviet bureaucrats to remain in power, while most of them are very corrupted, and hell if they are not corrupted they won't lose the once great nation of the USSR in the first place. They must be ousted from political theater.
    The problem is that after being controlled by a powerful regime for 70 years, it's probably difficult to find qualified people with no ties to it. Power transitions of this magnitude take time, as the old system is so deeply embedded in the nation. Even if they wash their hands of the old, they're still raised and schooled by the old regime.

    Oh, and The Departed has a metascore of 86, I've yet to hear a negative word being uttered about it (I think) and I'm pretty sure it won a bunch of Academy awards. Seriously, how well received was Internal Affairs?

  8. #28
    Secondary Hivemind Nexus squirrel's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by QuantaCat View Post
    its also quite silly that they were firing rounds that were developed just for police use (swat special rounds for opening doors and shit) and the government keeps insisting that no police lethal force was used.
    It is and it is not. It is true that you cannot hide the fact police employ lethal force, but this is exactly what the top brass want: to demonstrate use of lethal force against civilians to provoke violence, so that they have "just clause" to crack down the demonstration violently. I know it because many corrupted bureaucrats here also play those dirty tricks.

    Again, if those officers have real honor in their heart, switch side now. Go make history.

    Quote Originally Posted by Fanbuoy View Post
    The problem is that after being controlled by a powerful regime for 70 years, it's probably difficult to find qualified people with no ties to it. Power transitions of this magnitude take time, as the old system is so deeply embedded in the nation. Even if they wash their hands of the old, they're still raised and schooled by the old regime.
    This is the fault of the west. Former Ukrainian president Mr. Yushchenko was promised economic support from the west, but once he was elected, the stupid western politicians felt mission accomplished and didn't deliver the aid they'd promised. Without true economic revival Yushchenko couldn't win another term. Damn it, this crisis could have been avoided if the west didn't abandon Ukraine in the first place. As I know foxy Yanukovych won by promising he wouldn't cut the tie with the west in the first place, and with Putin's back he probably figures it's time to show his true color. God will prove this to be a fatal mistake for him. I am not Christian, but let me say that,God be with Ukraine.
    Last edited by squirrel; 25-01-2014 at 01:14 PM.

  9. #29
    Secondary Hivemind Nexus Squiz's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by squirrel View Post
    This is the fault of the west. Former Ukrainian president Mr. Yushchenko was promised economic support from the west, but once he was elected, the stupid western politicians felt mission accomplished and didn't deliver the aid they'd promised. Without true economic revival Yushchenko couldn't win another term. Damn it, this crisis could have been avoided if the west didn't abandon Ukraine in the first place. As I know foxy Yanukovych won by promising he wouldn't cut the tie with the west in the first place, and with Putin's back he probably figures it's time to show his true color. God will prove this to be a fatal mistake for him. I am not Christian, but let me say that,God be with Ukraine.
    What exactly are you on about? Ukraine receives quite a bit of developmental and financial support from "the West", and has been since the 90's.

  10. #30
    Secondary Hivemind Nexus Tikey's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Fanbuoy View Post
    Oh, and The Departed has a metascore of 86, I've yet to hear a negative word being uttered about it (I think) and I'm pretty sure it won a bunch of Academy awards. Seriously, how well received was Internal Affairs?
    I didn't like it.

  11. #31
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    Quote Originally Posted by Grizzly View Post
    I'd say Merkel and Sarkozy fit for that "Great men" title of yours,
    Well I, umm, disagree, but I don't want to derail this thread further. Frankly I've yet to come across a good source of info & analysis on matters in Ukraine, which is something else it is possible to wax philosophical about, but these matters in Ukraine deserve their own space.

  12. #32
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    Quote Originally Posted by squirrel View Post
    This is the fault of the west. Former Ukrainian president Mr. Yushchenko was promised economic support from the west, but once he was elected, the stupid western politicians felt mission accomplished and didn't deliver the aid they'd promised.
    The West will not fix a broken country by itself. Yuschenko failed to reform a horribly corrupt system and his orange coalition fell apart among jockeying for power. EU won't throw money at an opaque kleptocratic setup.

    In the end, it is in the hands of Ukrainians. Whether they get help from EU or Russia is secondary to the quality of their country. Both options will fails if it remains as it is.

  13. #33
    Secondary Hivemind Nexus Tritagonist's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by squirrel View Post
    This is the fault of the west. Former Ukrainian president Mr. Yushchenko was promised economic support from the west, but once he was elected, the stupid western politicians felt mission accomplished and didn't deliver the aid they'd promised.
    Of course 'The West' is! What's even worse, after Yushchenko left office in 2010, the West magically made Ukraine the 'biggest recipient of EU aid with some €470 million earmarked for the 2011-2013 period'. Maybe the EU is secretly in league with Russia & Putin?

    "He has anointed me to bring good news to the poor. He has sent me to proclaim release to
    the captives and recovery of sight to the blind, to let the oppressed go free". ~
    Luke 4:18

  14. #34
    Secondary Hivemind Nexus squirrel's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Tritagonist View Post
    Of course 'The West' is! What's even worse, after Yushchenko left office in 2010, the West magically made Ukraine the 'biggest recipient of EU aid with some €470 million earmarked for the 2011-2013 period'. Maybe the EU is secretly in league with Russia & Putin?
    And one of the comment posted for your article has made it clear:

    Do the Math EU aid per year approximately 170 million Euro. Russian offers worth between five and ten billion Euro. And in the current credit crunch cash is king. Of course in 2012 the EU is likely to be again in recession. Exposing all the talk of new EU sources of Ukrainian investment as a palpable nonsense. The only real test for the leader of Ukraine is likely to be arithmetic. And if the leader endorsed by the Party of Regions decides 'a bird in the hand is worth two in the bush' Russia will win this game. Not that given the EU'as many problems anyone outside Russia, Ukraine or the EU leadership will give a fig.

    €470 million gives you what? How large of a business operation can it fund? And even if you take network effect into account, how large can the radiation effect can this investment achieve?

    About this concept of money, let me give you a brief idea. If you take 1EURO = 9RMB (my desktop FX calculator said the rate at the moment I am typing is 1EURO=8.273RMB), this 170M EURO is RMB1.53B, approximately the yearly budget of the Hong Kong's Vocational Training Council training about 40K post-secondary students a year. I mean, what's generosity in there?

    More importantly, you don't need to denote. They are asking for investment. Of course, that doesn't you can buy out their asset cheap. Chrystia Freeland's Plutocrats gave a story of how those pro-Russia, former Soviet bureaucrats stole the asset of their own nation. that pretty much tell you what the Russia's warm hands are about. It's like your country's GDP is, said 300B, you are a bureaucrat running the country with only 3M annual salary, so someone come to you and offer a 300M (or 0.3B) bribe so that you look away when he steals away that 300B from the country you are obligated to be its guardian. This is what happens to Ukraine, and sadly, what also happens to my country. So I really feel for the Ukrainians.

    But Putin's ambition is far beyond financial wealth. No, I think personal finance motivation is irrelevant to him, it is merely a tool he employs to drive the people around him. Once he conquers the Black Sea for Russia again, the Mediterranean Sea will be the next. You don't need me to tell you what the implication it is, right? This is the Eastern Questions all over again, in the 21st century, except that this time you no longer have Turkey as your buffer. If you westerners don't act now, if you take it as someone else's issue and not yours, you will regret it when it is too late.

    And don't count on the USA. If it could lose Georgia under a President as tough as Bush, you seriously think a leader wimp like Obama can make it right for your?

    But don't get me wrong. I like Putin. You will want him as your leader, but him being your opponent will definitely makes your life hell.

    Plus you think it is "unthinkable" the west sold out Ukraine? Why would Russia tolerate the western presence in the Baltic states in the first place?

    So fight, brave Ukrainians, to relive the glory of the Cossacks again. God be with you, and be with us.
    Last edited by squirrel; 26-01-2014 at 03:16 AM.

  15. #35
    Secondary Hivemind Nexus Squiz's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by squirrel View Post
    lots of words
    It's official now, squirrel has gone nuts.

  16. #36
    Moderator QuantaCat's Avatar
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    hey hey now, youre supposed to set an example being a mod, squiz.

    However, Im all for an independant Ukraine, neither EU nor Putin get their hands on it.
    - Tom De Roeck.

    verse publications

    "Quantacat's name is still recognised even if he watches on with detached eyes like Peter Molyneux over a cube in 3D space, staring at it with tears in his eyes, softly whispering... Someday they'll get it."

    "It's frankly embarrassing. The mods on here are woeful."

    "I wrinkled my nose at QC being a mod."

    "At least he has some personality."

  17. #37
    Secondary Hivemind Nexus Squiz's Avatar
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    I know, and I am kind of sorry, but at the same time that post blew my mind. Sorry, squirrel.

  18. #38
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    Quote Originally Posted by QuantaCat View Post
    However, Im all for an independant Ukraine, neither EU nor Putin get their hands on it.
    There is no such things as "independence" nowadays. Also, EU is not out to get anyone. Neither is really Putin, but he has tendency to reinforce bad kinds of governance in his subordinate regions.

  19. #39
    Secondary Hivemind Nexus squirrel's Avatar
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    "Independence" is very beautiful, politically correct, noble, yet elusive. No nation can isolate itself from the international community, so why bother to seek this "independence"? Yanukovych promised to maintain tie with EU during election, to allow Ukraine to not isolate itself from the rest of the world; and now he broke this promise, cheated on his people and sold out his country to the "big brother". This is treason, as simply as that. He should be glad that the opposition fractions are now just asking for an early election, not his head.

    EU should also try a new model of economic "aid". They should start cutting the aid and beginning to invest in Ukraine for its huge brain resources: science and technology. I think most former Soviet bloc (not in USSR) Eastern European countries are doing very great. You know, those made in Poland appliances, for instance, start to flood our market. They are not expensive, but very reliable. (but of course, if you want bullet-proof durability, you need to pay up for expensive German goodies, there is no free lunch) Ukraine can stand up again, all it needs now is just a helping hand.

    I think westerners can learn what we Chinese are doing in the third world. One way is sovereign-supported international loans. I recommend a Bloomberg book published just a year ago: China's Superbank: How China Development Bank is Rewriting the Rules of Finance by Henry Sanderson and Michael Forsythe. It tells you stories of how China Development Bank, our largest development bank, is offering financial support for economic developments both domestically and in other third world countries. And this model is not invented by us. The World Bank is the start of such model. Contrary to general public's belief, World Bank is NOT a government-run charity. It too has to maintain an income source, not donation, to repay its issued bonds.

    BTW, how you guys know that I love nuts?...... Oh, my name tells. Okay u win, haha~

    Edit: Oops, a typo at the critical parts, World Bank is NOT charity. And how dare I type Yanukovych's name wrongly as his opponent Yushchenko, oh my.
    Last edited by squirrel; 28-01-2014 at 10:04 AM.

  20. #40
    Moderator QuantaCat's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by squirrel View Post
    "Independence" is very beautiful, politically correct, noble, yet elusive. No nation can isolate itself from the international community, so why bother to seek this "independence"? Yushchenko promised to maintain tie with EU during election, to allow Ukraine to not isolate itself from the rest of the world; and now he broke this promise, cheated on his people and sold out his country to the "big brother". This is treason, as simply as that. He should be glad that the opposition fractions are now just asking for an early election, not his head.

    EU should also try a new model of economic "aid". They should start cutting the aid and beginning to invest in Ukraine for its huge brain resources: science and technology. I think most former Soviet bloc (not in USSR) Eastern European countries are doing very great. You know, those made in Poland appliances, for instance, start to flood our market. They are not expensive, but very reliable. (but of course, if you want bullet-proof durability, you need to pay up for expensive German goodies, there is no free lunch) Ukraine can stand up again, all it needs now is just a helping hand.

    I think westerners can learn what we Chinese are doing in the third world. One way is sovereign-supported international loans. I recommend a Bloomberg book published just a year ago: China's Superbank: How China Development Bank is Rewriting the Rules of Finance by Henry Sanderson and Michael Forsythe. It tells you stories of how China Development Bank, our largest development bank, is offering financial support for economic developments both domestically and in other third world countries. And this model is not invented by us. The World Bank is the start of such model. Contrary to general public's belief, World Bank is a government-run charity. It too has to maintain an income source, not donation, to repay its issued bonds.

    BTW, how you guys know that I love nuts?...... Oh, my name tells. Okay u win, haha~
    Oh Im all for Chinas brand of helping out, but independance is necessary, otherwise you will just end up with oppression of one or the other kind. The EU is nothing without the exploitation of third world countries, so the sooner those countries start becoming self sufficient, the sooner the EU, russia and the US loses its power, and everything becomes more equalised.
    - Tom De Roeck.

    verse publications

    "Quantacat's name is still recognised even if he watches on with detached eyes like Peter Molyneux over a cube in 3D space, staring at it with tears in his eyes, softly whispering... Someday they'll get it."

    "It's frankly embarrassing. The mods on here are woeful."

    "I wrinkled my nose at QC being a mod."

    "At least he has some personality."

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