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  1. #1
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    Firefall CEO gets sacked

    http://www.tomshardware.com/news/mar...d-5,25491.html

    This comes pretty soon after they decided to ditch the pvp in their game (the only saving grace of them game, imo).
    Honestly, I can't wait to see some interviews with ex-members of the company once they close doors to see what the hell went wrong, althought I bet I already know what. It's always the same. Management.

  2. #2
    Secondary Hivemind Nexus gundato's Avatar
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    Honestly, it isn't much of a stretch to figure out exactly what went wrong: They took the "let's never leave beta" approach that so many titles are taking without realizing that they are a company who needs to turn a profit. And odds are the CEO is the sacrificial lamb for what was likely a problem throughout the entire company. Get rid of one guy, shift as much blame as possible to him, and then find someone to help you release what you have/sell it to a different party so you can at least recoup some losses.
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  3. #3
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    Is more than that. The company created a video spinoff for some future "something" and in the end was a waste of money. Other enormeous wastes of money where epic proportions props to promote a game that was really niche and small. They wasted 2 million dollars in a bus.

    -- Or that what we know. Maybe we don't know the whole picture.
    Last edited by Tei; 02-01-2014 at 10:04 PM.

  4. #4
    Secondary Hivemind Nexus gundato's Avatar
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    I never saw what was so niche about Firefall, seeing as how it was a coop game with tribes-esque movement. The former is incredibly popular as of the past few years and the latter has potential to distinguish it.

    The heavy marketing is definitely problematic, but if the game had been released and gotten the release coverage (reviews and what not) it would be stupid, but make sense and probably help.
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  5. #5
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    Quote Originally Posted by gundato View Post
    I never saw what was so niche about Firefall, seeing as how it was a coop game with tribes-esque movement. The former is incredibly popular as of the past few years and the latter has potential to distinguish it.
    IMHO..

    MMOFPS games are niche because the RPG part don't feel very RPG-y and the shooting part is not at good a game with limited arenas and netcode for less than 64 players. On a MMOFPS like Firefall you get people that don't mind playing a non-medieval fantasy game, with not-ultragood netcode. Is a subset. Of course, it may still be millions.
    Last edited by Tei; 02-01-2014 at 10:04 PM.

  6. #6
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    The game is a disaster. And this is coming from someone who was once here, in these very forums, trying to convince people to play.

    Ugh. Where to begin:

    -They promised people e-sports caliber PVP. So those people chipped in and paid for access, funding early development. They then failed to develop anything meaningful and shut down PVP completely, to develop a game in which their earliest, pvp-centric players had little to no interest.

    -They promised a world 1/10 the size of Earth. An open world. They have since revealed that their current map, which might be 1/10 the size of the Skyrim's map - maybe - is the upper limit of what their tech can handle.

    -They promised no vertical progression and no grinding. Now everything is gear based. Enemies use the tired, trad MMO color coding to indicate their "tier" of "difficulty." Tier meaning the length of their health bar and literally nothing else.

    -AI is horrible

    -The game remains in Beta. This, despite several years of development

    -The crafting system is - literally, without any hyperbole at all - the worst I have ever seen. In any game. Ever. It makes no sense, completely lacks depth and player choice...but man is it complex. To date, only external wikis make any effort to make sense of it. When asked to do the same, Red 5 uniformly responds with something akin to, 'There's no point in laying it all out right now, as its not yet complete.' Kind of like, oh, everything else in your game right now.

    -Progression makes no sense. Want to unlock better Assault frames? You'd think you could do that by piloting your Assault frame and earning XP using it. But that's only part of it. You also need pilot tokens. Which you unlock by piloting OTHER frames. Whether you want to or not. So lets say Assault is the only class you really like. Too bad; if you don't pilot other frames to unlock tokens, you will NEVER be able to unlock other Assault class frames.

    Well, unless you pay for the privilege. Of course.

    -Upon unlocking other frames in a class, your power level goes DOWN. See, by the time you unlock the Firecat/Tigerclaw frame, the XP you will have earned on your Stock Assault means you're able to equip pretty high level...um, excuse me, I mean, high TIER, gear on that frame. But when you unlock your next Assault frame...too bad. You literally start the entire process over, without the ability to equip anything high tier on your new frame. At all.

    Firefall is the only game I ever played where progressing to the next tier/unlock forces you to use weaker stuff for a lengthy period of time.

    -Not that your gear matters. It decays over time. All of it. Every time you enter combat. Regardless of how often you die or even get hit - regardless of the level of skill you put into the game - your gear constantly decays while in combat. Even gear you do not actively use while fighting is still wearing out. Of course, you can pay to extend the life of your gear, a little, but in the end, it WILL break forever, and you will be forced to make it anew or buy it from the market.

    -Which market sucks. Red 5 claim interest in a player driven market. Its a lie. All resources in the game are random, meaning no one can plan to take risks and harvest rare resources as in EVE. Its all a grind.

    -A grind that is still far, far from finished. According to the modern usage of the word Beta, this game is perhaps really in open Alpha. Its slightly more finished than DayZ...maybe. But not by much, and nothing - not a single mechanic or system -s is even finished yet, more less ready for testing. Per the dev team.


    But they, they spent millions on a production studio. And sponsorships, costumes and travel for cosplayers. They have an expensive live action trailer on youtube. They spent millions on a bus that doesn't run outfitted by West Coast Customs and containing LAN PC's that barely function on which almost no gamers have ever player Firefall.

    All this, and they spend huge amounts of money at conventions on lots of floor space to show off their cosplayers. Which is odd, for a years-old game developer that lacks, you know, a game.

    Or arguably even a coherent vision for one.
    Last edited by Blackcompany; 03-01-2014 at 12:17 AM.

  7. #7
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    i don't know why they axed PVP
    it was certainly much better than their MMO content

    it was somewhere between Quake and Tribes
    they even had brightskins in the game menu... that automatically puts it on the short list of devs who had a chance of making something worth playing

    it was one of the few games that looked fun and promising

  8. #8
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    RPG mods in the original Tribes were great!

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    There was this bit on reddit:
    http://www.reddit.com/r/Games/commen..._ceo_by_red_5/

    Judging by this: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=xbEhByk4Icg
    I don't think that the video team was the worst thing ever for them. even if unrelated, this is 2M views right there. their channel has almost 10M views.

    Also, a member of that video team had this to say:
    "The yearly salaries for the entire video team were less than half of what the company spent every month. So when I saw a majority of devs playing other games 8 hours a day for several months at a time, because they had nothing to do... that alone cost far more wasted money than the video team could ever have cost. The system Red 5 uses to assign work, and the huge amounts of wasted time it creates, is a far greater enemy than the video team."

    also, the guy says their videos had a better click through rate than convential ads/banners.
    Last edited by burningpet; 03-01-2014 at 06:24 AM.

  10. #10
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    I had a lot of fun with the game. Somewhere in that company somebody know what he is doing and is good a it. This is that type of game that gets the "core values" right, the game feels good.

  11. #11
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    Quote Originally Posted by Blackcompany View Post
    Snip
    Wow. And people wonder why f2p mechanics have a bad name. That and the "spending lots on advertising that does not result in returns" sounds a lot like most scams/vaporware. Get money in throught the front door by any means necessary, via seemingly legitimate advertising/events, but then just put that money back into advertising and not a product.

  12. #12
    I enjoy the hell out of Firefall but that's because I do not give two fucks about PvP. And neither does anyone else in Firefall either. When they shut down the PvP part my entire army went and sat in the open FFA PvP area for AN HOUR, inviting people to come hunt us, just for a giggle, to relieve the pain iof the PvP system being shut down. NOT ONE player showed up.

    They didn't AXE PvP, they shut the systems down to rework them to the pure e-sports class system they initially promised. And apart from completely borked crafting and progression systems, the game is exceptionally stable and runs like a dream, so if you like cooperative online shooters, do give it a try. Hopefully the change of teams can bring it back on track in terms of content updates AND the improved PvP for those few who want it. The potential is there.

    (Yeah I was massively bummed about the map size restrictions too, lrn2code Red5!, but that has to be a fixable problem)

  13. #13
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    I dipped my toe in a few times, but it never really caught me and every time I returned it seemed to have changed the progression/crafting completely. Content seemed to be there one day and gone the next.

    The game looked great, the effects were fantastic (best rocket boots in a game full stop). The thumper mechanic was good, but it did feel a bit like they weren't sure what the final vision was going to be.

  14. #14
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    How does it compare to Warframe? Since it seems the most similar game.

  15. #15
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    Oh and Mark Kern was the Team Lead on WoW and Producer on Diablo II. So he certainly has some experience, just perhaps not in running a company.

  16. #16
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    Quote Originally Posted by Moraven View Post
    How does it compare to Warframe? Since it seems the most similar game.
    Warframe has a lot of repeteable content, and all his content is repeteable. And Firefall has not has much content, but is a big open area. Both have great engines, Warframe excel at rendering corridors, while Firefall renders huge valleys with day-light cycles. Firefall opted for toom-rendering, that make the NPC's and PC's uglys, I think. Warframe has this "virus-cyborg" style that is very asian and anime-ish, but is very high-definition and high-quality. Warframe implement cool stuff like physfx for particles, and the design for enemies follow different templates, while Firefall humanoids mobs are much more derivative / the monsters are also highly derivative.

    Firefall has more of a community, have more native interfaces for chat and cooperate with other players, or just lolygaging around. You can have a huge battle of 100 players against other 100 mobs, to protect a base. While Warframe is more casual groups of 4 guys, and maybe a bit of Guild-action, but never more than 4 players.

    Warframe is better in every aspect, but are very different games.

  17. #17
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    Firefall sounds like a mix of Tribes and Tabula Rusa. For what it was Tabula Rusa was still fun and different. Maybe not in the long term.

  18. #18
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    Quote Originally Posted by Moraven View Post
    How does it compare to Warframe? Since it seems the most similar game.
    I have tried both:

    -Warframe is a corridor shooter set in an evolving world. Players run missions in confined areas from a central hub that is little more than a character sheet with a shop. Basically, its Vindicuts with guns in a sci-fi setting. Really is the best comparison. Its not bad, just too much grind and not enough variety for me. Also, I found the controls frustrating, personally.

    -Firefall is an open world shooter with cell shaded graphics and jetpacks. It offers exploration and beautiful graphics. Also, the ambient sound and lighting, if you have the rig for it, as fantastic.

    Give Firefall a progression system which makes sense, developers that do, and a crafting system I don't need an entire encyclopedia to understand - and remove durability - and it would make a great game. I know this, because it WAS a great game, before all of these things came on the scene.

    As it is now, though, Firefall, while beautiful to look at and listen to, features not some but every single one of the worst aspect of the free to play model, shoved into a single title. Also, the 'perpetual beta as an excuse for everything' syndrome.

  19. #19
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    Quote Originally Posted by Blackcompany View Post
    -They promised a world 1/10 the size of Earth. An open world. They have since revealed that their current map, which might be 1/10 the size of the Skyrim's map - maybe - is the upper limit of what their tech can handle.
    That's pretty bad. If you have a clue what you're doing, the only truly difficult thing with MMO load balancing should be having a ton of players in the same place. Making an arbitrarily large world is fairly straightforward as long as you have enough servers to throw at it.

  20. #20
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    If I understand it correctly, the server stream textures (why?) and the normal UI interfaces are HTML based, so wen you opens you inventory, have to download all the icons. The UI is very slow, and seems to be slowly replacing it for versions implemented nativelly. The game is lag free except when 100 players decide to have a fight in a single place. Then shotting enemies may not register, or the enemies shooting you (so you may receive the damage in spikes). Vehicles seems to always move smooth, and are fun, but theres only one type.

    Firefall is almost a freaking cool game, and you can see the game that can be trought holes or patches... in BWA (the most high-level mission) if you stay around when the mission end, you see a army of enormeous ships flyiing towards the exit of the mission. Less of 1% of the players have seen BWA, and less than 1% of BWA players have seen this part... I did because I glitched my charater inside some solid, so the NPC's where unable to kill me.

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