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  1. #1
    Lesser Hivemind Node Kodeen's Avatar
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    Goddamnit, Nintendo


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    I think Nintendo's best move at this point is a conservative one: they should consolidate their console and portable lines into a single platform. Create a portable, dual-screen console, roughly the size of the existing Wii U pad, that can run Wii U, Wii, and 3DS titles. Ditch the 3D screen, add native TV-out capability for a large screen experience. With a single platform, Nintendo would better be able to regularly deliver the high-quality software that is so essential for the health of Nintendo platforms.
    Last edited by Lethe; 17-01-2014 at 06:19 PM.

  3. #3
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    Well considering the networking part of the console was not available to developers until a few weeks before release...

    I think Nintendo make the nintento consoles for nintendo, and for 3th party developers only as a after-trough. On top of that, they don't get the internet.
    Abandoned PC gaming for good. Now rest in a better place. psn:Teikman

  4. #4
    Secondary Hivemind Nexus Xercies's Avatar
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    Wii U was always going to fail no one got it really and to be honest its a bit of a terrible concept. At least they got better 3DS sales but even that took awhile because again the concept was kind of terrible

  5. #5
    Moderator QuantaCat's Avatar
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    and the surprise is: its actually brilliant. It works wonderfully, especially now with optional TV or Gamepad play.
    - Tom De Roeck.

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    "Quantacat's name is still recognised even if he watches on with detached eyes like Peter Molyneux over a cube in 3D space, staring at it with tears in his eyes, softly whispering... Someday they'll get it."

  6. #6
    Secondary Hivemind Nexus gundato's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Lethe View Post
    I think Nintendo's best move at this point is a conservative one: they should consolidate their console and portable lines into a single platform. Create a portable, dual-screen console, roughly the size of the existing Wii U pad, that can run Wii U, Wii, and 3DS titles. Ditch the 3D screen, add native TV-out capability for a large screen experience. With a single platform, Nintendo would better be able to regularly deliver the high-quality software that is so essential for the health of Nintendo platforms.
    The problem is that would bump the gameboy's price point up to PSP/Vita levels if not higher, at which point they then have to compete with actual content (admittedly, the Vita doesn't HAVE much...)

    For the better part of two decades Nintendo has basically been operating on a lack of competition. Handhelds had the Game Gear and the PSPs. The former was before I started caring but the latter never caught on, and both were expensive (I assume the game gear was). In terms of actual consoles, they had THE multiplayer platform with the N64 as the internet "didn't exist, so all that mattered was local MP, and at the very least the N64 was designed with 4-player couch gaming from the start (PS1 focused on 2, and I think so did the Dreamcast?). Gamecube started their decline but still stood a good chance based on the same principle (just PS2 and XBOX #1 instead). The Wii by all means should have failed but it managed to fit that price point where people would buy a second console for their Nintendo games/parties

    The problem with a budget system is: It tends to have shitty specs. And that is making it very hard for third party devs (allegedly Nintendo were also dicks with the SNES, but I don't have a citation and just remember it mentioned in a podcast). And these days, third party games are largely the highlight for most people. Sure you have a few exclusives that people wage wars over, but it mostly boils down to "XBONE, PS4, PC? Either way you are playing AssFlag". And the Wii/WiiU is consistently shitty with regard to those games. And the Nintendo generation are getting older, growing up, looking for different forms of entertainment.

    Personally, I think it is a matter of time until Nintendo completely abandons consoles and sticks to handhelds where htey are still dominating. Or they get smart and take a page out of Sega's book: Let other people make hardware, just make good games

    Although, game wise, they are slacking off too. They have basically become EA/Activision with respect to re-releasing the same game every year, and they aren't even playing to their core demographics anymore (sample bias, obviously, but everyone I know REALLY wants another 2D Metroidvania starring Samus).

    I predict they have another generation, at most, before they either need to change drastically or go down the crapper. Especially since a BIG part of the current generation is social gaming and there are no longer any restrictions regarding the number of players (at least, not in Nintendo's favor), so we just need MS and Sony to get a few party games (Sony tried with All-Stars, but that failed horribly for MANY reasons) before Nintendo just has Mario and Link left, and I have a strong suspicion Knack was intended to try and cannibalize that market (shame they made it a launch title).

    It also doesn't help that their best idea in decades (Wii U as a second screen) has been ganked by Sony (and probably MS) before it really was appreciated.
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    Quote Originally Posted by Tei View Post
    I think Nintendo make the nintento consoles for nintendo, and for 3th party developers only as a after-trough. On top of that, they don't get the internet.
    Japanese companies in general have been very slow to adopt to the software-driven world*, and Nintendo are amongst the most 'Japanese' of companies that do business with the outside world at all. Even Sony, which has been dragged kicking and screaming into the 21st century, is still noticeably attached to the 'appliance' model over the 'platform' model. Compare the evolution of the PS3 user experience to that of Xbox 360 or iPhone/iPad over the same period: it's non-existent. To a first approximation the PS3 today offers basically the same experience it did in 2006. It's one of the reasons I think Microsoft has better long-term prospects with their new console than they are generally credited with amidst currently buoyant PS4 sales -- they're simply the more adaptive company.

    * Which is one of the reasons they've been badly mauled by Korean companies this past decade: Korea's PC-centric heritage left it better prepared for the software-driven world. Of course there are other, probably more important factors as well *cough* manufacturing costs *cough*.
    Last edited by Lethe; 17-01-2014 at 06:57 PM.

  8. #8
    Secondary Hivemind Nexus gundato's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Lethe View Post
    Japanese companies in general have been very slow to adopt to the software-driven world, and Nintendo are amongst the most 'Japanese' of companies that do business with the outside world at all. Even Sony, which has been dragged kicking and screaming into the 21st century, is still noticeably attached to the 'appliance' model over the 'platform' model. Compare the evolution of the PS3 user experience to that of Xbox 360 or iPhone/iPad over the same period: it's non-existent. To a first approximation the PS3 today offers basically the same experience it did in 2006. It's one of the reasons I think Microsoft has better long-term prospects with their new console than they are generally credited with amidst currently buoyant PS4 sales -- they're simply the more adaptive company.
    Could you provide more info on how the 360 changed? I know they tweaked the dashboard/gui a lot, but considering that added a lot of lag and ads (according to the article I found), not sure if that would be a good thing.

    Also, the PS3 WAS updated to support trophies/achievements and the like. I didn't have one at launch, but I know that most of the early titles had no trophies or they were patched in later. Which, again, may not be a good thing to a lot of people :p
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  9. #9
    Lesser Hivemind Node Kodeen's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by gundato View Post
    In terms of actual consoles, they had THE multiplayer platform with the N64 as the internet "didn't exist, so all that mattered was local MP, and at the very least the N64 was designed with 4-player couch gaming from the start (PS1 focused on 2, and I think so did the Dreamcast?).
    The Dreamcast also had 4 controller ports, 4-player Unreal Tournament was a good time. It generally gets lumped in with the PS2/Gamecube/Xbox generation, though.

    Quote Originally Posted by gundato View Post
    And that is making it very hard for third party devs (allegedly Nintendo were also dicks with the SNES, but I don't have a citation and just remember it mentioned in a podcast).
    Nintendo were mainly being dicks during the NES era. Third parties had a list of things they had to agree to, but there were two in particular that stood out:

    1) If you wanted to get a license to release your game on NES, you had to agree to not release that game on any competing platform for 2 years. So goodbye Master System.

    2) Third party publishers were only allowed to publish 5 games a year, a stipulation that was created to avoid the over saturation of the 2600. Publishers just got around this by creating shell publishing companies to increase their limit (the one that comes to mind was Ultra Games, which was a shell publisher for Konami).

    They also did things like sue Blockbuster Video, sue Galoob for creating the Game Genie, etc... Eventually they got a series of smackdowns in the courts for monopolistic practices, so by the time the SNES rolled around they had been pretty well neutered.

  10. #10
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    PS3 never had as good Friend List and Party system as the 360.

    PS4 is a nice improvement.



    I think a big part of the Wii U is marketing. After seeing people wanting a PS4/One for 'better graphics', Nintendo should have be heavily promoting the ability to play Mario in HD. Also a name change to Wii HD or Wii 2 would be less confusing. Lots believe the Wii U is a tablet controller add on for their Wii, which they barely play anymore.

  11. #11
    Secondary Hivemind Nexus gundato's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Moraven View Post
    PS3 never had as good Friend List and Party system as the 360.

    PS4 is a nice improvement.



    I think a big part of the Wii U is marketing. After seeing people wanting a PS4/One for 'better graphics', Nintendo should have be heavily promoting the ability to play Mario in HD. Also a name change to Wii HD or Wii 2 would be less confusing. Lots believe the Wii U is a tablet controller add on for their Wii, which they barely play anymore.
    Well, the problem with marketing stuff as "HD" is that "HD" implies shiny and pretty, not just a specific resolution. The Nintendo artstyle isn't really conducive to marketing stuff on the shiny factor. It ages a lot better mind you, but it isn't eye catching and amazing.

    And yeah, the Wii U was also completely botched when launched. Even my diehard nintendo fans weren't really sure what it was.
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  12. #12
    Lesser Hivemind Node Drinking with Skeletons's Avatar
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    Nintendo can't get rid of the 3DS, and I'm not sure they should consider it. Development costs seem low, the install base is large, and the setup distinguishes it from other mobile options (both from the "more difficult to port from" angle and from the "worth considering as a purchase" angle). But they can't ditch the 3D because that's still a feature and it's too soon to ditch it wholesale. Besides, while their projections were below what they wanted I suspect that has to do with desperately trying to recoup the WiiU; isolated from it's console sibling, the 3DS seems to be doing pretty well.

    The Wii U is a disaster for Nintendo and I don't know what will fix it. They've put out a decent stream of games so far, at least as far as a Nintendo console is concerned; I picked one up at Christmas and got four games that I still haven't totally finished, so there's good value already, and there are more games coming out in the near future (Donkey Kong in Feb., Mario Kart, Super Smash Bros., and hopefully X).

    One thing that Nintendo hasn't harped on is that the frame rate on the Wii U seems to be a constant 60 FPS. The games run like silk, which sets them up in stark contrast to a lot of "superior" titles on other platforms. That should be a selling point, in my mind, but you don't hear it mentioned often.

    Past that, I don't have a clue. My Wii sat unused for months on end, but I never regretted owning it because periodically there would be a game that would have the remote all but fused to my hands. Hence why I shelled out for the WiiU; I don't care that I won't play tons of games on it, because my experience tells me that the games I do get for it will be entirely worth my time and investment. Well, assuming that Nintendo doesn't just halt all WiiU game development, which at this point seems a distinct possibility.

    This will be fascinating to watch unfold, though, as it seems like conventional wisdom is that Nintendo will endure, and it doesn't seem like that's what's going to happen this time.

  13. #13
    Lesser Hivemind Node Kodeen's Avatar
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    I think the reason they don't harp on framerate is because that is something that only technerds seem to care about, and that's a demographic that Nintendo clearly is not all that interested in.

    Ultimately, the biggest reason the Wii U is a failure is because the Wii was a fluke, in the right place at the right time. More casual players were interested because they didn't have iPads yet. I don't think they'll be coming back. Where that leaves the Wii U in terms of developing a new strategy for it, I have no idea.

  14. #14
    Lesser Hivemind Node Drinking with Skeletons's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Kodeen View Post
    I think the reason they don't harp on framerate is because that is something that only technerds seem to care about, and that's a demographic that Nintendo clearly is not all that interested in.

    Ultimately, the biggest reason the Wii U is a failure is because the Wii was a fluke, in the right place at the right time. More casual players were interested because they didn't have iPads yet. I don't think they'll be coming back. Where that leaves the Wii U in terms of developing a new strategy for it, I have no idea.
    I'll be curious to see what effect the new Smash Bros. has. That series is insanely popular, to the point that I don't really understand why people get so excited about it. I frankly think that SSB is closer to a system seller than Mario.

  15. #15
    Secondary Hivemind Nexus The JG Man's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by gundato View Post
    It ages a lot better mind you, but it isn't eye catching and amazing.
    I dare you not to say that about Super Mario Galaxy, or even the older Wind Waker (and that's before bringing up the recent HD remake). When Nintendo really want to, they can make their games look bloody marvellous despite resolutions. Projects such as Dolphin only go on to emphasise that.

    Regarding the 3DS and the DS in general, it seems to me that Nintendo, intentionally or not, are going towards making a hand-held that sooner or later will probably end up being something towards a tablet. I'd quite like to see a hybrid tablet, with general browser features and what have you, but that also played Nintendo specific games. That'd be fantastic. More specifically on the 3DS, the 3D is fine when implemented well. It's not necessary in, say, the Pokémon games but in X and Y it gave it some pop during the battles and really brought them to life. The more recent Zelda: A Link Between Worlds I haven't played in 2D at all because the 3D is so wonderfully implemented. Some other demos I've played on it carry it off well.

    Anyhow, the major problems Nintendo have are generally those already pointed out or otherwise entirely obvious. They're building like it's still the nineties. One of the most damning things is that they still don't have a unified account system detached from hardware. I want to get downloadable games on my 3DS, that'd be great, but if I lose my 3DS they're gone forever unless I file a lost/stolen form and submit that to Nintendo when I get my new 3DS? Screw that. They're making progress, but this stuff should've been in place when the 3DS started. They had even more time on the Wii U considering it released in bloody 2012.

    They're just not utilising what they have well. They have a rich catalogue of games that they never really use on the virtual console, at prices that are kind of ridiculous given how old some of them are, have had an aversion until more recently for online multiplayer (and I certainly won't knock them for being a bastion of local MP), although for some reason choosing not to include that in the recent Super Mario 3D World. Their entire infrastructure is just not in tune with the rest of the world and that ethos is, much like Link's boomerang, coming back to hit them straight in the face. All the other companies have adapted or died. Nintendo are seriously at risk here of being left behind because they've failed to adapt to what the rest of the world is doing.
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  16. #16
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    Quote Originally Posted by gundato View Post
    The problem with a budget system is: It tends to have shitty specs. And that is making it very hard for third party devs (allegedly Nintendo were also dicks with the SNES, but I don't have a citation and just remember it mentioned in a podcast). And these days, third party games are largely the highlight for most people. Sure you have a few exclusives that people wage wars over, but it mostly boils down to "XBONE, PS4, PC? Either way you are playing AssFlag". And the Wii/WiiU is consistently shitty with regard to those games.
    I think that was half the point of the WiiU, and it may still be realised: it bought the Wii up to par with the 360/PS3, or even slightly more powerful. In theory, it should have had the best version of cross-platform titles.

    In practice, it didn't, because the lead platforms were always PS3/360. But we're hitting a point now where the lead platforms for most big games with be XBone/PS4, and the WiiU may well end up offering the best version on previous generation machines.

  17. #17
    Network Hub SMiD's Avatar
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    If Nintendo offered a library service (streaming or otherwise) that let me play whatever game I wanted from the NES/SNES/N64/whatever-you-like catalogs for a monthly subscription, I would go out and snag the WiiU today.
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  18. #18
    Secondary Hivemind Nexus Xercies's Avatar
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    I think what is really hurting Nintendo is there general scaredness of the internet say what you want about Sony but at least they did something with the internet and allowed multiplayer play and had an interesting thing with playstation+ wich I'm sure got them good will. Nintendo on the other hand feels like they are in an era where the internet is this new thing and they shouldn't touch it to much cause its probably a fad.

  19. #19
    Secondary Hivemind Nexus rockman29's Avatar
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    I wanted to love WiiU. I want to be able to love it to play Super Mario 3D World and the new Smash Bros, and the inevitable Zelda game. And of course Mario Kart.

    But what impedes me is the design choices on their consoles. They are just so damn unconventional...

    I'm not even sure what I want from them honestly...

    I think they should've stuck with Wiimote, but I don't even like Wiimote gaming that much. And with WiiU, I'm not a big fan of the big screen controller.

    I really think they messed up this console generation.

    Though their handheld systems are selling incredibly well (outselling everything else currently out) at the great prices of $149.99 USD.

    Nintendo is doing plenty of soul-searching in light of its recent abject commercial performance.

    On Friday, the company slashed its annual Wii U sales forecast from 9 million to 2.8 million units - a dramatic reduction that it expects will swing its full-year results from profit to loss.

    "We cannot continue a business without winning," Iwata said on Friday during a press conference attended by Bloomberg. "We must take a sceptical approach whether we can still simply make game players, offer them in the same way as in the past for 20,000 yen or 30,000 yen, and sell titles for a couple of thousand yen each.

    "We are thinking about a new business structure," Iwata added. "Given the expansion of smart devices, we are naturally studying how smart devices can be used to grow the game-player business. It's not as simple as enabling Mario to move on a smartphone."

    Investors and analysts have urged Nintendo to broaden its horizons and boost profits by embracing smartphones on multiple occasions over the past few years, but Iwata has always insisted that his responsibility is to plan for the long term, not simply to make a quick buck.

    Iwata also said today that there are no current plans to reshuffle Nintendo's management team, and that any announcement regarding potential pay cuts will be made when the company posts its third-quarter financial results in late January.
    http://www.computerandvideogames.com...ess-structure/
    Last edited by rockman29; 18-01-2014 at 12:55 AM.

  20. #20
    Secondary Hivemind Nexus mickygor's Avatar
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    The Wii U was too targeted at Japan in my opinion. Their other two major markets tend to have a TV in every other room, so don't need to worry about being able to use said TV at any given point, eliminating the need for a giant bulky tablet for a controller.
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