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  1. #1
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    Quick Time Events

    What's your take on those? Like them? Hate them? When does love turn into hate for you? How could you improve them? Should they be replaced, and if so by what?

  2. #2
    Lesser Hivemind Node Gorzan's Avatar
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    Don't mind them that much, really.
    I understand the reasoning behind them, there's just so much you can do with normal input, so if you want to give agency to the players during some bits of a game you might have to use them. I sometimes feel like a cutscene could use a quicktime event simply because I don't like my character doing spectacular things without my help, same reason why I hate when your character shoots on cutscenes. But I also understand they are a cheap way of giving input, wich doesn't fit onmost games.
    The thing is, I don't know if right now there's another way to fix that lack of agency, other than avoiding that kind of situation (wich is probably the best option most of the time). So I see them as an acceptable, if slightly annoying compromise.

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    Secondary Hivemind Nexus gundato's Avatar
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    For me, it depends on how they are used.

    I ABHOR the God of War style "End every fight with a QTE" bullshit. But I actually really liked the Resident Evil 4 approach of using QTEs to keep you on your toes and involved in cutscenes. Same with the God of War (heh) QTEs where you gouge out someone's eyes or keep punching a head or something.


    For me, one of the big keys is this: If it is something I should be able to do in-game, I expect it to use something similar to the in-game controls (x for jump, square for attack, etc). If it is something that is clearly VERY specialized, then make it work for the scene (Infamous 2's "let go" QTE, for example). But if it IS something I should be able to do, I expect a good reason for not letting me.
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    I like them when they let me do something a bit bonkers, I hear Bayonetta might be a good example of this. They should be there so that instead of a really boring set piece in the normal game, I get an off-the-wall fight with QTEs. If it's something that would be equally if not more entertaining in the normal gameplay, then it should've just been that to begin with.

    One of the weakest QTEs I've ever had to sit through was in Tomb Raider: Legend, it was basically a falling platform sequence with the exception of one acrobatic move I couldn't do normally, but everything else could've been done by me given the chance, it's just boring to watch.

    Can't think of the best one at the moment, but I am liking the finishers on Metal Gear Rising for the bigger enemies. It's optional, but it starts off with Raiden doing some nice acrobatics before I get do slice and dice the enemy into little bits.

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    Secondary Hivemind Nexus Fanbuoy's Avatar
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    I liked them at first because, well, it was new and had an interesting potential to make cutscenes more interactive. Then they were everywhere.

    Nowadays, I'm of a similar mind as Gundato (although I haven't played any of those games). I don't rage a QTEs, but I greet most of them with a sigh or a tired chuckle. They often seem lazy, but I can usually understand why they're included. I would like some variation in them, though. Perhaps, instead of doing the old reaction timer QTEs, a Guitar Hero-like approach could work. That is, having more button presses and faster, but letting the player see a bit ahead. Make it more about timing and skill than twitch reflexes. Then again, I get the feeling that QTEs are often just a case off letting the player do extra badass stuff (because that would make the players themselves more badass), and forcing them to actually concentrate might make them miss the badassery.

    I re-finished Tomb Raider: Anniversary today. All of the main enemy's chief henchmen were dealt with entirely in QTEs (two separate QTEs in one case). That was shameful. On the other hand, many people hate bosses, and I guess this is a way of having them and skipping them as well.

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    Secondary Hivemind Nexus Fanbuoy's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Firewhisper View Post
    One of the weakest QTEs I've ever had to sit through was in Tomb Raider: Legend, it was basically a falling platform sequence with the exception of one acrobatic move I couldn't do normally, but everything else could've been done by me given the chance, it's just boring to watch.
    Heh. Played that one just before Anniversary. Funny that both of us used Tomb Raiders as bad examples, but they really are.

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    Secondary Hivemind Nexus Skalpadda's Avatar
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    Can't say I have any categorical objections to quick time events, but I also can't say I've ever played a game where they provided any real enjoyment. It tends to feel like lazy, thoughtless interaction rather than engaging with the game in a meaningful way. It also brings to mind some of the worst button-prompt-gaming examples, such as the "press F to look" and "LMB/RMB to crawl" in Crysis 2 which made me put the game down for good.

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    I really despise QTEs. I've got horrible reflexes and thus QTE quickly turns into completely arbitrary "repeat the section often enough to memorize the input" for me. So everytime they come up, I'm guaranteed to need at least 10 attempts to proceed. Needless to say, even the most flashy of cutscenes has gotten extremely stale by that point. Games with randomized QTE, I just can't complete at all.
    Games without QTE, even First Person Shooter or similar, I can get by with using different tactics and approaches tailored to how my my brain works. QTE? End of the line buddy.

    This is very infuriating to me, as I really can't see the point in them either. So you want me to stay awake during the cutscenes? Make better cutscenes, besides, you're forcing me into tunnel vision so I won't see it either way. Use it to show something that can't be done in normal gameplay? 1) Just give me a cutscene and let me appreciate it. 2) Perhaps work on your consistency between plotstrength and actual strength please?

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    Quote Originally Posted by Fanbuoy View Post
    Heh. Played that one just before Anniversary. Funny that both of us used Tomb Raiders as bad examples, but they really are.
    They certainly are, I really enjoyed the rest of the game but the QTEs are really bad. The flashback one in Legend really got on my nerves since I messed it up a couple times and had to sit through a cutscene just to get another chance.

    Quote Originally Posted by Skalpadda View Post
    Can't say I have any categorical objections to quick time events, but I also can't say I've ever played a game where they provided any real enjoyment. It tends to feel like lazy, thoughtless interaction rather than engaging with the game in a meaningful way. It also brings to mind some of the worst button-prompt-gaming examples, such as the "press F to look" and "LMB/RMB to crawl" in Crysis 2 which made me put the game down for good.
    I think I remember a QTE in Modern Warfare 2 that was essentially "Press X to live", QTEs that feature the most mundane actions possible are the worst.

  10. #10
    Secondary Hivemind Nexus gundato's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Firewhisper View Post
    I think I remember a QTE in Modern Warfare 2 that was essentially "Press X to live", QTEs that feature the most mundane actions possible are the worst.
    Fighting for your life is now a mundane action?

    While uninspired (it was MW1 again), I actually really liked the use of QTEs during the ending of MW2. Made you feel like you were really struggling to survive your shanking and were struggling to help Mister Mustache save the day.

    Also, an example of a QTE that actually IS a super mundane action but is also pretty fun: Killzone 2 had a gimmick where, to place a bomb or use a valve, you had to use the shoulder triggers and actually rotate the controller. Actually made you feel like you were gripping the valve and rotating it (bombs were also triggered by rotating valve like objects...). Incredibly mundane, incredibly simple, but really added a lot to the game in my opinion as it managed to keep you involved while doing the traditional "press E to advance triggers" and it was particularly tense when under fire.
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  11. #11
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    I can't really imagine ever actively wanting a QTE in a game. I'm not exactly sure what we're defining a QTE as so I can't give a full answer. But basically if I'm playing an action game I want to have all my commands available to me at all times (maybe I have to accept some context sensitivity to reduced the number of keys to remember), and I enact them at the moment I want. In many cases this isn't going to be too distinguished from a "Press F to Awesome!" demand at certain moments, just i) I can enact the command whenever I want, even if it doesn't do anything; and ii) there's no popup to tell me that I can be awesome now.

    QTEs that require more than one key press offend me---if you can't simulate the command sensibly, please don't give me a silly minigame to solve, just give me one key that activates the command.

    QTEs in cutscenes annoy me. This is just a matter of taste: I prefer to watch.

    Also, an example of a QTE that actually IS a super mundane action but is also pretty fun: Killzone 2 had a gimmick where, to place a bomb or use a valve, you had to use the shoulder triggers and actually rotate the controller. Actually made you feel like you were gripping the valve and rotating it (bombs were also triggered by rotating valve like objects...)
    That sounds like an attempt, perhaps basic but never mind, to simulate the action. In principle I don't mind that sort of thing and wouldn't even think of it as a QTE.
    Last edited by NathanH; 26-01-2014 at 08:52 PM.
    Irrelevant on further examination of the rest of the thread.

  12. #12
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    Let's be clear about exactly what QTEs are: they are a test of the player's ability to react quickly and accurately. Nothing more. Literally, nothing more.

    Other games that use reflex tests (eg, shooters, platformers, fighting games) have heaps of context around them which allow for intelligent play, tactical decisions, problem solving and/or learning. That's everything that makes a game a game, or at least an interesting game. QTEs are an abdication of responsibility for any kind of game design, in favor of providing the bare minimum of what could possibly be called interactivity.

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    Quote Originally Posted by gundato View Post
    Fighting for your life is now a mundane action?
    Okay, perhaps mundane isn't the right word. Perhaps you appreciated the scene more than I did, but to me it just didn't feel that exciting to mash buttons to end up doing something to get to that point, I enjoyed the first Modern Warfare's final scene a lot more.

    I guess I like QTEs when they are just meant to look ridiculous, the Final Fantasy 13-2 opening is a good example. It's just colours and crazy acrobatics.

  14. #14
    Secondary Hivemind Nexus neema_t's Avatar
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    If we're talking about Resident Evil 4 QTEs where you can just die with very little notice despite how well you may have been doing in the actual game, I hate them for that exact reason. I get what they were doing but it was unnecessary, bullshit and I generally get as far as that bit after the house where you have to choose one of two paths before I give up due to excessive QTEs.

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    But on other way RE4 did awesome job with all these micro one button QTEs: kick, punch, suplex etc. It really added more depth to gameplay.

    Also the biggest problem of QTEs is that almost all the time they're just binary. You either can fail them or finish them. It would be great to have for example blocking move where you can block 5-20 hit points based on how well you're pressing buttons.

    Another problem - lack of choices. It would be awesome to have QTE where you can for example punch OR kick monster who grabbed you.

  16. #16
    Secondary Hivemind Nexus rockman29's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by neema_t View Post
    If we're talking about Resident Evil 4 QTEs where you can just die with very little notice despite how well you may have been doing in the actual game, I hate them for that exact reason. I get what they were doing but it was unnecessary, bullshit and I generally get as far as that bit after the house where you have to choose one of two paths before I give up due to excessive QTEs.
    Quote Originally Posted by GameCat View Post
    But on other way RE4 did awesome job with all these micro one button QTEs: kick, punch, suplex etc. It really added more depth to gameplay.

    Also the biggest problem of QTEs is that almost all the time they're just binary. You either can fail them or finish them. It would be great to have for example blocking move where you can block 5-20 hit points based on how well you're pressing buttons.

    Another problem - lack of choices. It would be awesome to have QTE where you can for example punch OR kick monster who grabbed you.
    Yea it was very good in RE4.

    I agree the stupid QTEs like running away from the boulder, those were just annoying. Cool kind of, but mainly annoying.

    But the way they integrated QTE into the regular gameplay was really well done, totally agree.

    Also Beyond 3D has a HUGE thread about "what is a QTE" because of Ryse.

    Everyone who really wanted Ryse to be good, they tried to redefine the entirety of the QTE just for the sake of not calling Ryse filled with QTEs. It was very sad.

  17. #17
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    Quote Originally Posted by Skalpadda View Post
    Can't say I have any categorical objections to quick time events, but I also can't say I've ever played a game where they provided any real enjoyment. It tends to feel like lazy, thoughtless interaction rather than engaging with the game in a meaningful way. It also brings to mind some of the worst button-prompt-gaming examples, such as the "press F to look" and "LMB/RMB to crawl" in Crysis 2 which made me put the game down for good.
    In MGS4 I actually think one of the (or many of the) QTEs were there to inflic actual pain on your fingers, as a illustration/metaphor for the pain the character was going through on screen.

    Those kind of QTE button pressing mashes out of context (and even in that instance) are horrid IMO. Also they don't help with accessibility and often offer nothing to the "gameplay". The other QTE in cutscenes are just as pointless, as it does not add anything to a cut scene without them.

    But actual timed responses, with multiple "paths" or just simple fail states can work I guess. But it's hard to make it a "guitar hero" type thing and not a "surprise, QTE half way through a 5min unskippable cut scene, game over!" thing.

  18. #18
    Secondary Hivemind Nexus rockman29's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by TechnicalBen View Post
    In MGS4 I actually think one of the (or many of the) QTEs were there to inflic actual pain on your fingers, as a illustration/metaphor for the pain the character was going through on screen.

    Those kind of QTE button pressing mashes out of context (and even in that instance) are horrid IMO. Also they don't help with accessibility and often offer nothing to the "gameplay". The other QTE in cutscenes are just as pointless, as it does not add anything to a cut scene without them.
    I think that's what it was for also. It was pretty insanely hard to do in MGS2, on European Extreme.

    There are two sequences with Raiden where you have to mash buttons to survive. You can't even hold the controller in the normal way to complete them, at least I can't.

    I have to use my whole forearm and become tetanic or something lol.....

    The thing I don't mind about the MGS2 one is you know what button to press, and it's only one button.

    The thing about RE4 boulder scenes.... random buttons (well, random of two combinations of two buttons, that are the same, after repetitively pressing other ones... which is hard and frustrating when you keep failing).

  19. #19
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    Some of you (GameCat, TechnicalBen) have already touched on how I see it, but here it goes anyway:

    I think when they're integrated into the general gameplay like in God of War (get it right = rip the Medusa's head off, get it wrong = loose some health instead) it's fine. It allows the designer to put in some extra/special/powerful actions, but they don't get in the way (too much).

    They're worst to me when they're nothing but a test of "are you still there?" during a cutscene.

    If there is only one outcome to that scene, constantly telling me to press some arbitrary button is just... meh. During cutscenes they should be used to facilitate some sort of (story) branching (get them right = game goes on like this, get them wrong = game goes on in a different way).

    I think it's the the first QTE in the latest Tomb Raider where you have to wiggle the sticks to prevent her from sliding down into a pit. If you fail, she dies - game over. Why not have it like: if you fail, she falls down to the lower route towards the next area, and if you succeed she takes the upper one which also has some extra collectibles like food or something? That way it would actually mean something.

    The "get it wrong = game over" way is just totally lame.
    Last edited by DanMan; 27-01-2014 at 01:20 AM.

  20. #20
    Secondary Hivemind Nexus sabrage's Avatar
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    Jericho and Ninja Blade have automatic QTEs, and so should every other game.

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