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  1. #1
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    FPS Becoming MMO :/ GRIND!

    One of the main reasons i've began to play more and more on arena tour realms and stuff is because every season or alt having to do the grind is so boring. Sure back in the day

    my warlord grind was like 15 hour days for 3 months, 2 hour bg queues, but still.

    5 Years on ye, and now u can find it in almost any game, every time i make a new acc or buy a new game like COD or Bfield, i just have to grind through levels to unlock gear,

    rather then start playing straight away. This guy pretty much sums it up http://gamewipe.com/...ps-the-new-mmo/ . Srsly starting to wonder if they are gna start putting it into

    CS:GO and stuff too :/

    Any one else a bit fed up with the grind, just want to PVP ffs :/

  2. #2
    Secondary Hivemind Nexus Rii's Avatar
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    Back when I played WoW I used to argue - at length - that gear should be entirely divorced from the PVP system, and in support of that argument I'd point to the fact that great games like Starcraft, Counter-Strike, Quake III, Chess, etc. didn't need to implement such systems to keep folks competing against one another. People played those games because they were great games; implementing progression in PVP was - besides being manifestly unfair - a tacit admission that your game is not in fact very good.

    I still stand by that, but alas more recent examples of games that do it right are thin on the ground. Of course the implication of that is that none of this more modern breed of games will be remembered 10+ years after release. So far TF2 is the only real threat to that hypothesis.
    Last edited by Rii; 06-09-2011 at 01:09 PM.

  3. #3
    Lesser Hivemind Node apricotsoup's Avatar
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    Guild wars always kept gear away. There were some small rewards but they weren't anything that could give you more power. (Unless you only played PVP and had to unlock stuff which was easily available in the PVE side of the game).

    Guild wars 2 looks like it will follow a similar path, normalising the levels of players to create an even field in PVP. That's for the instanced PVP at any rate, no real info on what the more open world sections will have.

  4. #4
    Secondary Hivemind Nexus Drake Sigar's Avatar
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    English Parry Hotter, do you speak it?!

    It does seem like the necessary but unsavory elements of the industry desperately seek to replicate World of Warcraft’s success (here’s looking at you, Activision) by taking concepts from the MMO genre and crowbarring them into FPS games. And it’s working. Annual sequels and long term subscriptions ahoy!
    Last edited by Drake Sigar; 06-09-2011 at 01:10 PM.

  5. #5
    Secondary Hivemind Nexus Grizzly's Avatar
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    CS:GO and stuff too :/
    Wot? When was this mentioned, confirmed?

  6. #6
    Secondary Hivemind Nexus Heliocentric's Avatar
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    I learned my lesson with MW, if its not fun at level 1 no amount of baulbals will make it fun. Conversely a good game is good even with unlocks.

  7. #7
    Activated Node BathroomCitizen's Avatar
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    I may sound repetitive, but why the heck do we need unlocks in FPS?
    They may be the cause of even more unbalancing in a game.

    Everyone should have the same weapons/perks from the beginning.
    Quake 1 surely isn't remembered for having players to unlock their rocket launchers!

  8. #8
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    It's because shoving RPG mechanics into games makes players feel like they're progressing, working to an overall goal, but all it really does is put up even bigger barriers to entry for new players. It's even worse in F2P games that allow you to cut out the grinding with money.

  9. #9
    Secondary Hivemind Nexus Rii's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by BathroomCitizen View Post
    I may sound repetitive, but why the heck do we need unlocks in FPS?
    To keep you playing to keep you paying and drawing in others via network effects.

  10. #10
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    Quote Originally Posted by Heliocentric View Post
    I learned my lesson with MW, if its not fun at level 1 no amount of baulbals will make it fun. Conversely a good game is good even with unlocks.
    This.

    People did do PvP in WoW before it was linked to gear. They didn't need encouraging. It got more popular afterwards, because people are obsessed with gear, but that's an issue with the player, not the game.

    Games are designed to be enjoyable the whole way through. There is no 'grind'. Just play the game until you get bored and then move on. Forget about unlocks and all that stuff. If the game is unbalanced for a new player coming in then it's bad design. But the reason they get away with it is rather than reviewers and gamers saying 'this is badly balanced' they say 'this is good, once you get through the grindy bits' and people keep buying them. No. They're bad games.

    And players that are just playing for the thrill of getting the next bit of loot and becoming more powerful, while not actually enjoying the mechanics of the game: you're doing it wrong. Go buy another game that you actually like. And if the thing you actually like most about games is the feeling of achievement upon finishing the grind, then stop moaning about the damn grind because that's why you're playing it in the first place.

    Not every game suits every person. But if you ever find yourself playing something you don't like. Stop. Play something else. There's probably something on sale on Steam for $3 if you're out. Don't keep going because it might get better - it probably won't. And even if it does, it's still a shit game for making you do that. There are more deserving games. Play them.

  11. #11
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    Quote Originally Posted by BathroomCitizen View Post
    I may sound repetitive, but why the heck do we need unlocks in FPS?
    They may be the cause of even more unbalancing in a game.
    I don't think it's bad design per-se. It just needs doing well. Done properly, they can slowly introduce you to more complicated and different methods of play. The Last Stand in DOW2 works really well doing this.

  12. #12
    Secondary Hivemind Nexus Nalano's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Rii View Post
    To keep you playing to keep you paying and drawing in others via network effects.
    You know what does that better?

    Mod support and clan servers.

    And I find it hard to believe that such is why the companies do it, considering that they kill the community with every new yearly iteration.
    Nalano H. Wildmoon
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  13. #13
    Network Hub Megagun's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Nalano View Post
    You know what does that better?

    Mod support and clan servers.
    No they don't. Numbers pulled out of my ass say that 90% of people don't play mods or play in clans.

    Unlockables in games are a bit like achievements: people (unconsciously?) like these little rewards they get for playing.

  14. #14
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    ^^But if you have that you get console gamers complaining about every server being non-standard and running a ton of mods and insular clan communities and what-have-you.

  15. #15
    Secondary Hivemind Nexus Heliocentric's Avatar
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    Assassin's Creed brotherhood multiplayer has unlocks, but its still a rude-word incredigood and while in my heart I know it would be more ethical to have everything unlock at level 1 I still coo'd when I first got my smoke bombs.

  16. #16
    Secondary Hivemind Nexus Nalano's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Megagun View Post
    No they don't. Numbers pulled out of my ass say
    Well, at least you're honest.
    Nalano H. Wildmoon
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  17. #17
    Lesser Hivemind Node TillEulenspiegel's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Megagun View Post
    90% of people don't play mods
    Probably because they aren't very well supported by most games. TRIBES did it just fine, and the mods made the game.

  18. #18
    Secondary Hivemind Nexus Nalano's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by TillEulenspiegel View Post
    Probably because they aren't very well supported by most games. TRIBES did it just fine, and the mods made the game.
    Let's not forget a little mod called CS.
    Nalano H. Wildmoon
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  19. #19
    Lesser Hivemind Node TillEulenspiegel's Avatar
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    The popular Half-Life "mods" were really total conversions that just used the engine. Impressive, but a bit more complicated to set up.

    With Tribes, you had a list of servers running various mods, you clicked on one, and that was that.

  20. #20
    Secondary Hivemind Nexus pakoito's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Nalano View Post
    You know what does that better?

    Mod support and clan servers.
    But you can't monetize that, why allow people getting maps for free when you can charge 5$ each?

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