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Thread: Project of Cars
29-09-2014, 01:53 PM #1
Project of Cars
Really good gameplay video :)
For each track they have modeled an accurate sky with stars and sun and such apparently as per some interviews.
Also weather per date is looked up via interwebs.
Not sure if it applies to the location of sun/moon in the sky according to date.
29-09-2014, 02:15 PM #2
- Join Date
- Jun 2011
If they've done all that - they need their head seeing-to - seriously, there's detail and there's just wasting time for the hell-of-it ;0
PCars is certainly looking good - there's couple of bits in this video - mostly around 9:20 onwards at Brands - which are genuinely hard to distinguish from 'reality' - the lighting is lovely, the cars look super-realistic - the follow-out from the pits is just amazing...
But I think a lot of people are expecting a hardcore sim and I suspect that, possible star-position detail aside, that might not be quite what they're going to get (unless they view Forza as a sim perhaps)
29-09-2014, 02:59 PM #3
That was just one item, I think it's sounding like a hardcore sim otherwise too. Like the "in-helmet" view and so on.
The reason they put the star/sun stuff in was so it would be more authentic according to the developers, so the sun would set in the exact place in which you would see it on the same track IRL.
I also really love the art, the realistic lighting and colours are great. Some racing these days I really get put off by the unrealistic art/colour palette, but Pcars is definitely not one of those. It reminds me of GT in this regard, the way the cars and tracks and colours look.
Very excited for this one, Nov 18 can't come soon enough :)
Oh yea it will have Oculus (and PS Morpheus but morpheus is not released yet) support IIRC on launch, pretty sure it's already in during the dev versions:
Last edited by rockman29; 29-09-2014 at 03:11 PM.
29-09-2014, 03:12 PM #4
Looking pretty damn smexy. As far as I'm concerned, I see GT\Forza (haven't played the latter) as sims. GT is probably doing a lot of calculations under the hood - I think the main difference between these games and the hardcore PC things is that the physics are more forgiving and that perhaps the calculations are not as advanced due to console power.
It's my uneducated guess, of course, but GT is pretty much a sim IMO, surely one that's more approachable, but the cars have a learning curve and you can't drive like a bat out of hell. It's much more realistic than GRID.
THUS - if PCars is just north of GT\Forza on the sim scale...then yeah, it's a sim. Probably a forgiving one, but still a sim.
29-09-2014, 03:22 PM #5
- Join Date
- Jun 2011
The 'in helmet' view was in Shift 2 (actually the first and only patch to it in-fact)
Stars you won't need - there's no way you'll be able to see them from in-car (headlights should too bright) - the sunset is nice but hardly essential to be exactly where it should be (ideally it will never be RIGHT IN MY EYES!!) :)
29-09-2014, 03:30 PM #6
Not essential but a nice touch nonetheless :)
Production values and whatnot :P
GT is pretty nice too. Wouldn't say horsepower holds it back at all. The lack of horsepower in consoles is mainly GPU related anyway, not so much CPU. The professional mode driving simulation in GT is really good.
We're not talking simulations that make i7 CPUs cry and everything else can't run it or anything. A good car simulation is not about just having an Intel i7 watercooled cpu, the game engine matters more IMO. Games like Rfactor and other hardcore PC sims can run on more than just the latest and greatest CPU as well.
An i7 is obviously a lot more powerful than a PS4 CPU, but the same game runs on PS4 at 1080p60.... so I'm not sure it really matters in this context.
Last edited by rockman29; 29-09-2014 at 03:40 PM.
29-09-2014, 06:58 PM #7
The definition of a 'sim' is very elastic and open to interpretation, to the point where it doesn't really mean anything to me any more. It does my head in when you have people treating it as a binary - where games are either 'arcade' or 'sim' with no grey area in the middle, which must mean Race 07 compares to iRacing as much as NFS: Shift compares to Ridge Racer, which is just false on both counts - and yeah, it has lost almost all meaning to me. I can say, though, that Project CARS will certainly appeal to fans of console racers (GT/Forza/Shift/Grid) and probably all the way up to Simbin titles and Assetto Corsa, I say 'probably' because I haven't compared them back-to-back and haven't played Project CARS at all for maybe two months now, the P1 definitely wasn't in it last time I tried it at least. Also Assetto Corsa isn't finished yet so who knows how that'll turn out.
29-09-2014, 07:44 PM #8
- Join Date
- Jun 2011
I hate people using terms like 'arcade' or 'simcade' because they're mostly used by people who want to look-down-on or belittle other games.
For me, a 'sim' has no 'game' in it at all - there's no career, no unlocks, no progression system, no achievements or badges or whatever. It simply 'simulates' a real life activity to some degree of authenticity.
Using that definition, the only 'sims' we ever talk about are GPL, NR2003, rFactor2 and GSC.
rFactor had a credits-to-unlock system, Assetto Corsa has achievements, challenges and a (soon to be) career, iRacing has a whole lot of SR and licence progression/unlocking, Codemasters stuff is more game than sim and so on.
Shift/Shift2 always claimed to be the crossover titles but never really got close - whether being freed of EA's influence will make this "third time a charm" - seems an optimistic view to have.
29-09-2014, 09:07 PM #9
Then again, SMS is also the core team behind GT Legends and GTR2 - they split from Simbin between GTR2 and the race series. I'd say that Project Cars is probably going to be the game that "Shift should have been" - considering that they are their own people now and can do with an "When it's done approach" as opposed to a "when EA wants it approach" - Modders from Shift 2 have stated that there's loads of good stuff in there, but the end result is obviously rushed. The tyre model in Shift 2, for example, was coded by the same guy who did the physics of Richard Burns' Rally - but most of the features of that tyre model are not activated.
So yeah, I am really excited for Project cars on one hand:
- I actually liked Shift 2!
- I love GTR2 !
- It's a game that will appeal to many people and thus increase our numbers in the racing game subforum!
- Pick up and play!
- Road courses! As in ACTUAL ROADS. NFS style!
- No moddability just yet - Shift 2 could be modded, so I assume PRoject Cars is doable, and I am a sucker for vanilla content anyway, buuuutttt... It does not extend the livability of the sim
- Again, same problem as with Rfactor 2: I don't question that Project Cars is good - but it's main competition, Assetto Corsa, is a game I picked up for rather cheap and is already giving me a lot of enjoyment - So the question is not "is it good", it's "does it do what I want in a racing game much better then Assetto Corsa does it"?
Last edited by Grizzly; 29-09-2014 at 09:12 PM.
29-09-2014, 11:07 PM #10
I think Pcars is pretty far on the sim end of this continuum which I like. At least that's the impression I get, it seems to be their goal to have that realistic handling but also realistic feedback during driving, like with all the shaking screens, the in-car audio is also great, stuff like that.
I have Gran Turismo 6 but I just don't use my PS3 very often since I got the PS4.... lol. It's a fantastic game in all respects, visually and simulation.... the Corvette ZR1 is my favourite in it.... beast car but so hard to handle at full throttle lol.
So I'm really looking for exactly this kind of game... been following Pcars for a while.... just sad there is no demo or anything for PC atm. There has not been much choice of car sims since recently which is great... glad I don't have to wait for GT7 to get my fix :D
I am not an expert in these subjects so I'm just using my own impression of what I see. Looking forward to it still anywho :P
Even if we don't call it just a sim or something else, it looks like a great game :D
This may interest some just as a nugget of information:"For a racing game, 60fps is hugely important," Tudor continued. "What people don't know is that the physics underneath runs at 600 times a second. We measure the input you're doing on the controller 250 times per second. Project Cars does that way more than any other game - they're all doing that significantly lower. The screen refreshes 60 times per second - we're measuring the tires, the physics, the suspension, all that stuff, 600 times."
The only other game I know that runs a driving simulation at 600 Hz is Motorstorm Apocalypse (and possibly the other ones too).
And a pretty good video showing off helmet view:
Last edited by rockman29; 29-09-2014 at 11:42 PM.
30-09-2014, 02:21 AM #11
- Join Date
- Jun 2011
The reason I keep saying "it won't be a sim" is because the people who think of themselves as 'sim' players have demands which I'm 100% certain PCars won't be addressing (and I suspect some of them will implode when they realise this).
I'm not suggesting it won't be a good drive - or a fun game - but some of the more 'hardcore' players of racing games do make demands on a game which few games can usually meet.
King of sims at the moment would be rFactor2 - it touts the most sophisticated car/track/tyre models and it's control/FFB setup is apparently very good (and getting the controls right is CRUCIAL if you want the serious sim-heads to play your game).
Then there's iRacing - nowhere near as complex (it's ages-old after-all) but the career stuff which exists around the game is second-to-none in terms of being the place you want to be if online racing is your thing.
There's no way PCars will rival either of those and I'm not sure it even needs to try. Remember that it's a multi-platform game, so it has to play well for Joe Public using a controller (esp a shitty Playstation one!) as well as a 'sim' person with their steering/pedal setup and gord-knows-what-else - that's quite an ask and it's hard to imagine there being the level of care and support needed to cover all of those to the level people seem to be expecting.
30-09-2014, 04:47 AM #12
Well I guess you will be surprised to know I plan on getting this for PS4 and will be playing on a Dualshock 4 :P
Which is, in fact, the best controller available :)
30-09-2014, 07:14 AM #13
*pssst* - trjp plays with an X360 pad ;)
30-09-2014, 08:50 AM #14
- Join Date
- Nov 2013
- Anglesey, Wales
I haven't played PCars for a while. My racing time is extremely limited right now so I'm concentrating on iRacing. However, I can say a lot of effort is being up into the physics and tyre models if the content of the forum is anything to go by. The feedback from Ben Collins and Nick Hamilton gets quite in-depth at times and does seem to be taken seriously by the developers. I don't know if they'll manage it or not but as far as I can tell the aim is to do a good job on the physics models.
30-09-2014, 10:31 AM #15
I've played GT6 almost daily until AC took over my gaming life. I like the Pokemon-style car collect-a-thon and the variety of cars on display (even though a lot of the standard cars look rubbish, especially those coming from the PSP version of the game). However, I found myself playing 90% of the times with only half a dozen cars anyway (Renault Clio, Megane Sport, Stingray, Camaro SS, GT500 GT-R and Sauber C9 in the late game), which is similar to GT5 where I played half a dozen cars (Clio V6, Skyline, GT-R, 458 Italia, GT500 Petronas Lexus and the overpowered Minolta) for most races as well and most other cars bought were just used when they were an entry requirement. Hence I'm kinda looking forward to the likely collect-a-thon in PCars, even though I might just end up using the same half dozen cars for most of the races as usual.
Still not sure if I get it on launch or not though.
Regarding sim or not sim, I'm not a professional race driver so I can't tell if those cars behave as they supposed to. I'm just confused by people on the internet who are of the strong opinion that because they lost control over their real-life Impreza at some point in the past the GT3 cars in the sim are 'too easy' to drive. Or this notion that if something has 300+ hp it should be impossible to go 250+ km/h in a straight line without crashing, otherwise it's no sim. I always figured an acutal race car should be easier to drive at high speeds than a streetcar (that's what all those wings, oversized brakes and fancy tyres are for, right?).
There are some actual race drivers who say something similar (sorry for the German)
Rene Rast is claiming that driving a race car up to the limit isn't all that difficult. It's just the last half second where it gets tricky and the car fights back. Driving a GT3 Z4 at a reasonable slow pace for example should be no problem for anyone halfway decent behind the wheel. Race drivers are not mystical creatures, born from blood and tyre irons, possessing magical powers to keep a racecar on the road. He also stresses out that a lot of how comfortable a car feels comes from the setup.currently playing: Assetto Corsa
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30-09-2014, 12:36 PM #16Regarding sim or not sim, I'm not a professional race driver so I can't tell if those cars behave as they supposed to. I'm just confused by people on the internet who are of the strong opinion that because they lost control over their real-life Impreza at some point in the past the GT3 cars in the sim are 'too easy' to drive. Or this notion that if something has 300+ hp it should be impossible to go 250+ km/h in a straight line without crashing, otherwise it's no sim. I always figured an acutal race car should be easier to drive at high speeds than a streetcar (that's what all those wings, oversized brakes and fancy tyres are for, right?)
That being said - The Assetto Corsa GT3 cars aren't really all that hard either.
30-09-2014, 12:46 PM #17
- Join Date
- Jun 2011
I'm not getting into nor have I mentioned whether the cars are 'realistic' or not - my point is that there is a community of people who think they know what is 'realistic' and what is 'sim' and they aren't afraid to tell people this.
They are currently - mostly - thinking that PCars will be for them. I just don't think it will be - that's my entire point here.
The reasons I think this are many but one pretty major one is that they look at anything which runs on a console and that's an instant 'no' anyway ;0
They also hate controllers - we are using 'driving aids' when we beat them (forgetting that their plastic wheel thingy is a pretty big driving aid in itself) and they hate driving aids ;0
Mind you - they're already started to pick-apart some of the PCars videos of McLaren F1's sliding in the rain in ways they'd never do in reality - of cars humping kerbs in a way that would break them in reality - it has started...
The backlash won't be pretty - Assetto Corsa is already getting some of that as it's apparently 'simcade' or whatever other gibberish they use to disguise their peevishness - god knows what their next messiah will be...
30-09-2014, 12:48 PM #18
The AC GT3 cars are fairly reasonable, yes. As that driver wrote, shaving that last half second is the real challenge, and where the car becomes hard. The Z4 is more reactive but potentially unstable, the MP4 is very stable, but if you do something stupid you won't even have a chance to save it.
EDIT:They are currently - mostly - thinking that PCars will be for them. I just don't think it will be - that's my entire point here.
Last edited by Prolar Bear; 30-09-2014 at 12:50 PM.
30-09-2014, 01:41 PM #19
Also I haven't seen a car list for Pcars. I'm hoping the ZR1 Corvette is in it, really in love with this car since GT5. Not a dealbreaker if it's not there, but I'm hoping for it..... google-fu seems to not have very recent car lists.
According to GTPlanet though it seems the car list is not finalized and Corvette status unknown.
Also they have an absolutely smexy photo thread going on for Pcars: http://www.gtplanet.net/forum/thread...303263/page-21
Looking forward to driving that Mclaren P1 though, looks like such a beast :D
Last edited by rockman29; 30-09-2014 at 01:49 PM.
30-09-2014, 02:26 PM #20
- Join Date
- Nov 2013
- Anglesey, Wales
No Corvettes that I've seen. There are a couple of Mustangs planned at some point (probably not release) and a couple of Caper stock cars but that's about it for Yank Tanks.