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  1. #41
    Quote Originally Posted by Sketch View Post
    Sorry for a bit of a hijack. But is it worth jumping back to Civ IV for any reason if you've played V? I'm debating doing that or picking up Brave New World.
    My personal preference is by far Civ IV. They are both decent games. There is much heated debate on the subject and certain well-known journalists/bloggers have planted their feet firmly on one side of the fence or the other in a hostile manner. I don't really care about the subject yet find it a testament to the quality of the aging series that so much debate would even take place.

    Civ IV can have me hooked for countless hours while Civ V cannot. Try both, perhaps?

  2. #42
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    Quote Originally Posted by crazy horse View Post
    I'm currently messing about with Civ IV (I bounced off of Civ V) I'm thinking of getting into something new as Civ has gotten stale. Thought maybe I'd get some ideas. I'm not big on fantasy themed games but as long as the difficulty is there and interesting tactical choices to be made then the theme is not important.
    I always liked the Civ IV mod Fall from Heaven 2. Transforms Civ IV into a fantasy setting.I played that quite a bit.

  3. #43
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    Anyone who wants to try the excellent Civ 4 mod, Fall From Heaven 2 should just go get Ashes of Erebus, which is a patch of a mod of a mod of a mod of Fall From Heaven 2. It is not really a mod, though, mostly just more content and patches. In general, it is essentially the same game, improved and (sorta) still updated. It has all the stuff in one package too.

    http://forums.civfanatics.com/showthread.php?t=493730

  4. #44
    Lesser Hivemind Node Velko's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by mrki View Post
    Combat in Endless Space is the best thing that happened to 4x genre in years. Trudging from one boring battle to the next in the endgame kills my will to play. In ES the battle at least has a finite length. To me, it's far more interesting than micromanagement.
    This. I really like the combat in ES. I'm a Great Galactic Emperor, I don't have the time to tell each corvette where to aim. The tactics cards (IMHO) strike a great balance between micro and hands-off.

  5. #45
    Secondary Hivemind Nexus Sparkasaurusmex's Avatar
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    I've finally fully converted from Civ IV to V. It takes all the expansions (well really just Brave New World and Gods & Kings) to replace Civ IV. I eventually grew to prefer the "no unit stacks" of Civ V, making it my Civ of choice now.

  6. #46
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    I find Civ V plays sloooow. The time it takes to establish myself and build out seems to take forever.

  7. #47
    I'd like to remind everyone that Age of Wonders 3 is coming out at 31st of March. Having seen the gameplay footage and remembering the days I've spent playing the first one at night with the lights off ( I was a middleschooler, you see ) so my parents wouldn't notice; I can't help but be excited.

  8. #48
    I had a demo version of AOW 1 which I played the hell out of. It was my first strategy game that was not Civ 2. You only had one 5 or 6 player map but it was quite large and most of the spells/races were available. I finally got round to buying the main game after a year but by that time I had burned out on AOW and did not enjoy it as much as I expected to. It was a really great map, I guess.

    Yes, AOW III looks awesome. Will buy.

  9. #49
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    I wanted to like Endless Space and I still think it has one of the best if not flat out the best UI of an 4X ever, but the game's struck me as incredibly... clinical. The UI is sleek and extraordinary, but the different races end up feeling like the same thing with different numerical bonuses, despite the fact that the lore for each is quite detailed and original.

    I quite enjoyed SotS1 but I almost feel like it's not 4X... The empire part is so streamlined it's almost all about the combat, which frankly only reminds me of how nobody's matched Homeworld for space RTS.

  10. #50
    Lesser Hivemind Node squareking's Avatar
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    Distant Worlds looks incredible. I might have to bite that bullet someday...
    steam


  11. #51
    Secondary Hivemind Nexus gwathdring's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Heliocentric View Post
    I usually slap myself when I want 4X, the strike upside my head reminds me that the genre is stuffed with time vampires which hook you in but never really offer a good return on investment.
    My experience with Civilization and Chess. There was a moment when I realized that what I was enjoying was pure learning. I love learning things--systems, trivia, whatever. I enjoy reading instruction manuals and schematics, too. But ... the game itself wasn't giving me a challenge except where my knowledge was deficient and wasn't giving me interesting decisions to make except where my knowledge was deficient and wasn't giving me victory except where I was disinterested.

    While this is true in a reductive sense of many games, it is true in an oddly direct way for me when I play civilization. The game is not abstracted enough to get you out of "do what makes sense" mode right from the start and is not stimulative enough to make detail-oriented decisions less mathematical. Once I hit the point where I had to stop thinking like a philosopher or a leader and start thinking like an accountant I started, by turns, feeling frustrated with the stuff that got in the way of the math and frustrated with the math that got in the way of the stuff. In some games, multiplayer can solve these problems, but Civilization is far too solitary in it's mechanisms to allow for properly robust multiplayer solutions to my issues with it.

    I'm starting to explore some 4X board games--the Civilization board game, Eclipse, Through the Ages--and trying to see if the approach in table-gaming is any more to my liking. So far Civ kept me playing for years without ever really capturing me and I bounced off of Gal Civ.

    I will say of Civilization that it is a masterclass in compelling design. The one more turn effect is a testament to the UI design and much of the rest of the player-facing game. Unfortunately the underbelly of the game is, I feel, missing something. Civilizations simply aren't integrated enough and your decisions are at once too micro-management oriented and too distant from the humanity of your civilization. The game is all gloss and that gloss should be celebrated for it's consistency and deftness but ultimately after years of play I still can never really say that I found it interesting. Eminently playable, but never quite worth investing much more than time.
    I think of [the Internet] as a grisly raw steak laid out on a porcelain benchtop in the sun, covered in chocolate hazelnut sauce. In the background plays Stardustís Music Sounds Better With You. Thereís lots of fog. --tomeoftom

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  12. #52
    Secondary Hivemind Nexus gwathdring's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Sparkasaurusmex View Post
    I've finally fully converted from Civ IV to V. It takes all the expansions (well really just Brave New World and Gods & Kings) to replace Civ IV. I eventually grew to prefer the "no unit stacks" of Civ V, making it my Civ of choice now.
    I would love Civ V against a human opponent, I think. But GOD is the AI awful at combat. It wrecked the game for me. Warfare is so much more interesting and the game solves some of my problems with the precise balancing of Civilization's past abstraction-vs-simulation dilemma by streamlining certain things (though it also takes out some of the meat ... you win some you lose some). But ... warfare is just so horrifying easy for me. The computer doesn't stand a chance in the base game. They created this great tactical warfare system and didn't support it properly.

    I would love to try Civ V against a human opponent, but as it stands ... well, unless the expansions beef up the AI I'm not going back until my regular gaming buddies buy it.
    I think of [the Internet] as a grisly raw steak laid out on a porcelain benchtop in the sun, covered in chocolate hazelnut sauce. In the background plays Stardustís Music Sounds Better With You. Thereís lots of fog. --tomeoftom

    You ruined his point by putting it in context thatís cheating -bull0

  13. #53
    Secondary Hivemind Nexus Heliocentric's Avatar
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    I know it's not 4X but since the conversation has migrated. Solium Infernum limits the number of decisions you can make and has several layers of deception and you can come back from nearly anything if you play your cards close to your chest and scheme like a true fiend.

    I can't whole heartedly recommend it because the developer has moved on and it's not finished, some fundamental things are bugged, I wish it had a remake to a more stable engine like Binding of Isaac.

    It's a masterwork in strategic philosophy, shame it's unfinished.
    Last edited by Heliocentric; 16-03-2014 at 01:36 PM.
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  14. #54
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    I really like Civ 5 to be honest, and I still play it when I get a chance. What I really like about it, is that it's not too complicated, but it has a lot of depth to it. I like the various Paradox games, especially Crusader Kings 2, but those games are a bit too complicated for me. I like how with Civ 5 I could just start playing it, and slowly understand more about the game as I wanted to. I had tons of fun with the base game, but now I can't really imagine playing it without the two expansions.

    I have been looking at some of the space strategy games out there, but it seems like most of them are too complicated, and have very counter intuitive interfaces. I am working on my own space strategy game that hopefully will be a little more like Civ 5, where it's easy to get into. I think a space / scifi theme is great for 4X strategy games. Masters of Orion 2 is a great one to pick up on GOG.com, although the graphics are obviously a little dated.

  15. #55
    Secondary Hivemind Nexus b0rsuk's Avatar
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    You should try Eclipse.
    http://boardgamegeek.com/boardgame/72125/eclipse

    It has an extremely 4X feel to it. You play as one of several races, build up and colonize planets, develop technologies (there's a randomized tech tree and you compete for technologies), engage in diplomacy (victory point penalties for breaking pacts). You customize your 3 spaceship types with weapons and equipment + orbital stations. Random map generator included.
    It plays best for 4-6 players.

    Board games might look expensive compared to computer games, but you only buy the game once and can play with as many friends as you have.
    pass

  16. #56
    Secondary Hivemind Nexus gwathdring's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by b0rsuk View Post
    You should try Eclipse.
    http://boardgamegeek.com/boardgame/72125/eclipse

    It has an extremely 4X feel to it. You play as one of several races, build up and colonize planets, develop technologies (there's a randomized tech tree and you compete for technologies), engage in diplomacy (victory point penalties for breaking pacts). You customize your 3 spaceship types with weapons and equipment + orbital stations. Random map generator included.
    It plays best for 4-6 players.

    Board games might look expensive compared to computer games, but you only buy the game once and can play with as many friends as you have.
    With the expansion it goes up to 9 and apparently downtime is surprisingly reasonable even with many players.
    I think of [the Internet] as a grisly raw steak laid out on a porcelain benchtop in the sun, covered in chocolate hazelnut sauce. In the background plays Stardustís Music Sounds Better With You. Thereís lots of fog. --tomeoftom

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  17. #57
    Lesser Hivemind Node L_No's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by gwathdring View Post

    I would love to try Civ V against a human opponent, but as it stands ... well, unless the expansions beef up the AI I'm not going back until my regular gaming buddies buy it.
    Playing Civ V against other humans is theoretically a good idea, but my regular gaming buddies and me have found that it can take a looooong time to play a full game of Civ V. Since there's five of us, and some of us have only played Civ for a couple of hours and others have played various Civ games for more than 300 hours, there's a big chance someone will be eliminated in the first hour. That's a major problem if that player has to wait for 6+ hours until everyone else has finished. You really have to have a dedicated group of moderately skilled players to make it work.
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  18. #58
    Secondary Hivemind Nexus Sparkasaurusmex's Avatar
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    And BTW, I don't know the specifics of it, but the expansions do claim to improve the AI. I am not sure if improves the tactical AI, but seems to improve the basic strategy of the AIs.

  19. #59
    Secondary Hivemind Nexus gwathdring's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by L_No View Post
    Playing Civ V against other humans is theoretically a good idea, but my regular gaming buddies and me have found that it can take a looooong time to play a full game of Civ V. Since there's five of us, and some of us have only played Civ for a couple of hours and others have played various Civ games for more than 300 hours, there's a big chance someone will be eliminated in the first hour. That's a major problem if that player has to wait for 6+ hours until everyone else has finished. You really have to have a dedicated group of moderately skilled players to make it work.
    That's true of Civ III and Civ IV too. It's a nightmarishly long game.

    I wouldn't play in one sitting. I'd PBE or hot-seat it in multiple sessions.
    I think of [the Internet] as a grisly raw steak laid out on a porcelain benchtop in the sun, covered in chocolate hazelnut sauce. In the background plays Stardustís Music Sounds Better With You. Thereís lots of fog. --tomeoftom

    You ruined his point by putting it in context thatís cheating -bull0

  20. #60
    Lesser Hivemind Node L_No's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by gwathdring View Post
    That's true of Civ III and Civ IV too. It's a nightmarishly long game.

    I wouldn't play in one sitting. I'd PBE or hot-seat it in multiple sessions.
    I see. I wouldn't know, I've maybe played 5 hours of Civ in my life :) Don't worry, I will be starting on Civ 5 soon.

    The same is true for the Civilization boardgame by the way. We tried it once, but we gave up after an hour and a half when the first turn was still going. It's just too complicated to easily play it.
    Last edited by L_No; 19-03-2014 at 08:18 AM. Reason: spelling
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