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  1. #81
    Secondary Hivemind Nexus Grizzly's Avatar
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    So explain to me again how a bunch of hearsay and images which may be as well be photoshopped prove that ZQ has slept with people in order to promote her public awareness depression game, which is entirely free, with non-existing reviews? Heck, even "TheZoePost", your first source, claims that this is not the case!

  2. #82
    Activated Node seshFriend's Avatar
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    Where is the proof that she was doxxed? harassed via phone? harassed by wizardchan? harassed by /v/? Yet she still claims all these things happened on twitter starting a huge influx of publicity.

    She slept with Nathan Grayson, it is hearsay that it was in exchange for press true, BUT it is still a breach of professional ethics! It doesn't matter if she slept with him before or after these articles were published and it's not an isolated incident, this is a pattern of behavior that is UNETHICAL.

  3. #83
    Secondary Hivemind Nexus sabrage's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by DatIntegrity View Post
    "Oh, look at this TERRIBLE MISOGYNY. I need to protect this poor defenseless bird of a woman with her broken wing, because WOMEN ARE STRONG AND EMPOWERED."

    Get yourself fucking straight.
    You're going from forum to forum registering merely to spout noxious hearsay about a woman you've never met. Practicing your pitch in your Crystal Palace of repellent behaviors seems a bit misguided.

  4. #84
    Secondary Hivemind Nexus Grizzly's Avatar
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    From your first piece of evidence, the Zoe Post:
    To be clear, if there was any conflict of interest between Zoe and Nathan regarding coverage of Depression Quest prior to April, I have no reason to believe that it was sexual in nature.
    Hmm. Interesting! Even the man who has the most reason to be pissed of at ZQ denies this little tidbit.

    She's fucking admitted it,
    Where?

    and there's NO denial from any of the accused of the facts. NONE AT ALL.
    Not denying every single accusation that gets thrown at you via the internet does not mean that you automatically plead guilty for all of those.

    Quote Originally Posted by Sesh
    BUT it is still a breach of professional ethics! It doesn't matter if she slept with him before or after these articles were published and it's not an isolated incident, this is a pattern of behavior that is UNETHICAL.
    Why is this unethical? As long as Nathan keeps himself from reporting on Zoey?


  5. #85
    Lesser Hivemind Node Harlander's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by seshFriend View Post
    She slept with Nathan Grayson, it is hearsay that it was in exchange for press true, BUT it is still a breach of professional ethics!
    Pretty sure the correct response is on the level of "Hm, that's a bit rum", rather than what we're seeing here which pretty much transcribes as OMG THIS WOMAN IS JEZEBEL HITLER-STALIN THE THIRD, BURN HER IN THE STREETS.

    Also, shouldn't you be lambasting Grayson as well?

  6. #86
    Activated Node seshFriend's Avatar
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    YES, and I have but that was in the RPS Feedback Thread. Nathan Grayson being the journalist has commited a greater breach of professional ethics in my opinion. In fact I sort of ended up off topic in this thread.

    Zoe Quinn did some unethical things but Nathan Grayson has had a hand in doing damage to the reputation of my favorite PC gaming news media outlet.

    EDIT: Never cared for Kotaku but their reputation is damaged too.

  7. #87
    Activated Node seshFriend's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by DatIntegrity View Post
    He was always a weasely cum-stain.

    To be honest, the hope is that doing this WILL get to him.
    Now now we wont get anywhere with ad-homonym attacks. Be reasonable.

  8. #88
    Secondary Hivemind Nexus Grizzly's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by DatIntegrity View Post
    Wow, you really didn't look at the sources I posted at all, did you?
    I did, and even found evidence to the contrary of your claims as outlined above.

    Except it's a PR strategy used to exploit people's short attention span. It's DESIGNED to get rid of truthful accusations, where a denial would result in you being a liar.
    What's the point in denial if you are going to get called a lair anyways?

    Because it's obvious he still has influence at Kotaku, especially for avoiding posting stuff that would give her competition
    NG is one of the many writers at Kotaku. Plenty of others that can report about that sorta thing.

    Go look at The Young Capitalists game jam, and give me a reason that's getting ZERO publicity.
    There are hundreds of gaming journalists, why would they all not report on something because two people have a relationship?

  9. #89
    Network Hub FurryLippedSquid's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by seshFriend View Post
    Nathan Grayson being a journalist has commited a greater breach of professional ethics in my opinion.
    Is how I read that. Which put a smile on my face.

  10. #90
    Secondary Hivemind Nexus Grizzly's Avatar
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    Nathan Grayson being the journalist has commited a greater breach of professional ethics in my opinion.
    Again, what breach? Sleeping with someone alone does not disintegrate your professional integrity.

  11. #91
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    Quote Originally Posted by seshFriend View Post
    YES, and I have but that was in the RPS Feedback Thread. Nathan Grayson being the journalist has commited a greater breach of professional ethics in my opinion. In fact I sort of ended up off topic in this thread.

    Zoe Quinn did some unethical things but Nathan Grayson has had a hand in doing damage to the reputation of my favorite PC gaming news media outlet.
    The fact that RPS isn't posting about this. The fact that NO ONE is posting about this should be all that you need to know. It's a fucking media blackout. Any time something gets posted, it either gets pulled or the website's hosting company requests that they remove it.

    Look at the KYM article for more info.

    Quote Originally Posted by Grizzly View Post
    I did, and even found evidence to the contrary of your claims as outlined above.
    Evidence to the contrary.

    lol.

    Quote Originally Posted by Grizzly View Post
    What's the point in denial if you are going to get called a lair anyways?
    Because the idea is to make a full statement on the matter to try and get the facts straight. THAT'S WHAT FUCKING JOURNALISM IS.

    Quote Originally Posted by Grizzly View Post
    NG is one of the many writers at Kotaku. Plenty of others that can report about that sorta thing.
    Except you don't fuck off a coworker, regardless of the situation, especially at a site like Kotaku which is already so lacking in integrity it's falling apart.

    Quote Originally Posted by Grizzly View Post
    There are hundreds of gaming journalists, why would they all not report on something because two people have a relationship?
    1. The little sites are trying to and either pulling it with no explanation or getting requests to remove it from their hosting companies. Look at KYM for this.
    2. The big sites are IMPLICIT in this. Kotaku, RPS, etc. They all have a conflict of interests in this.
    Last edited by DatIntegrity; 23-08-2014 at 09:58 AM.

  12. #92
    Secondary Hivemind Nexus Heliocentric's Avatar
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    I haven't yet slept with Nathan Grayson. Just to clear things up.
    I'm failing to writing a blog, specifically about playing games the wrong way
    http://playingitwrong.wordpress.com/

  13. #93
    Activated Node seshFriend's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Grizzly View Post
    Again, what breach? Sleeping with someone alone does not disintegrate your professional integrity.
    Yes but sleeping with someone who is involved in a project you give publicity to is a breach of professional ethics. I never said his integrity was disintegrated no need to add the superlative when paraphrasing me.

    Edit: Lets post in other threads so we can talk about games, I just want to have some forum discussion, this Zoe Quinn Nathan Grayson stuff is clearly going nowhere. I posted a thread about Gauntlet but no one cares about Gauntlet I guess (Wil Wheaton is in there though do you care about Wil Wheaton?).
    Last edited by seshFriend; 23-08-2014 at 09:59 AM.

  14. #94
    Secondary Hivemind Nexus soldant's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Grizzly View Post
    In our societies, one is considered innocent untill proven guilty. [...] If you think there is some merit to this side of the debate you must come up with solid evidence.
    Oh wow, I was waiting for someone to post this, because like I've said previously, plenty of people taking Quinn's side, and even the RPS forums, have been happy to bring out the knives on an accusation alone. And when that accusation doesn't translate into evidence, they actively look for something else. Again, see Temkin - nobody could pin the rape accusation on him, so they went on about how he wasn't doing enough to 'open dialogue' about rape culture. This is my point, this whole 'innocent until proven guilty' bullshit gets thrown out the window whenever it suits the rabble's agenda.

    Not that I'm accusing you of this attitude, I don't recall any of your posts. But whenever I hear people posting this line, I shake my head. But people don't even want to entertain the possibility that something happened, which is entirely different from "I see no evidence" and is more like "I don't want to even think about it."

    Quote Originally Posted by Grizzly View Post
    Again, what breach? Sleeping with someone alone does not disintegrate your professional integrity.
    It can if there is a potential for a conflict of interests - and in most occupations it'd be questioned. But you're correct in suggesting that Grayson didn't actually do anything for Quinn during that time. Grayson never reviewed the game and didn't provide it with any positive press while they were in a relationship.
    Nalano's Law - As an online gaming discussion regarding restrictions grows longer, the probability of a post likening the topic to the Democratic People's Republic of Korea approaches one.
    Soldant's Law - A person will happily suspend their moral values if they can express moral outrage by doing so.

  15. #95
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    Quote Originally Posted by DatIntegrity View Post
    RPS is not reporting on this, and that should be evidence that this site has NO journalistic integrity at all left (apparently it got sucked out through the penis), because they're hoping it will blow over due to the blackout. I'm just waiting for the inevitable "MISOGYNIST SLUT SHAMERS RUINING GAMING COMMUNITY AGAIN".
    And why do I care? Journalistic integrity? Games journalism?

    I'm here to hear about cool new games. I get that.

    I'm here to hear impressions from reviewers that I trust. I get that.

    Why should I care that someone slept with someone to promote a game that is free? What is the point behind any of this for us?

    I'll come here and read reviews and take their word at face value until I find that isn't true anymore. At worst I'll be out $20, but until then I'll continue to trust what they write.

  16. #96
    Lesser Hivemind Node Harlander's Avatar
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    Couldn't this stuff be actionable as libel if it's presented without verification? (Or just presented, if it's done in the UK?)

  17. #97
    Secondary Hivemind Nexus Grizzly's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by seshFriend View Post
    Yes but sleeping with someone who is involved in a project you give publicity to is a breach of professional ethics. I never said his integrity was disintegrated no need to add the superlative when paraphrasing me.
    Oh, apologies, I only added that since it meshed well with integerity :P.

    But ehrm, where does NG give Zoe any publicity?


  18. #98
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    Quote Originally Posted by Wengart View Post
    And why do I care? Journalistic integrity? Games journalism?

    I'm here to hear about cool new games. I get that.

    I'm here to hear impressions from reviewers that I trust. I get that.

    Why should I care that someone slept with someone to promote a game that is free? What is the point behind any of this for us?

    I'll come here and read reviews and take their word at face value until I find that isn't true anymore. At worst I'll be out $20, but until then I'll continue to trust what they write.
    Except for the fact that it's kind of illegal not to disclose shit like this.

    Quote Originally Posted by Harlander View Post
    Couldn't this stuff be actionable as libel if it's presented without verification? (Or just presented, if it's done in the UK?)
    It could, if it was untrue.

    It is not untrue.

  19. #99
    Secondary Hivemind Nexus soldant's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by DatIntegrity View Post
    It could, if it was untrue.

    It is not untrue.
    Bullshit, there's no evidence that journalistic integrity was compromised. Her actions and those of the people she slept with were unprofessional and morally questionable, but that's about it.
    Nalano's Law - As an online gaming discussion regarding restrictions grows longer, the probability of a post likening the topic to the Democratic People's Republic of Korea approaches one.
    Soldant's Law - A person will happily suspend their moral values if they can express moral outrage by doing so.

  20. #100
    Activated Node seshFriend's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Wengart View Post
    And why do I care? Journalistic integrity? Games journalism?

    I'm here to hear about cool new games. I get that.

    I'm here to hear impressions from reviewers that I trust. I get that.

    Why should I care that someone slept with someone to promote a game that is free? What is the point behind any of this for us?

    I'll come here and read reviews and take their word at face value until I find that isn't true anymore. At worst I'll be out $20, but until then I'll continue to trust what they write.
    I'd say its a principle thing. Where is the line drawn? If the game wasn't free would you change your mind? What if everyone was doing things like this? Sure it's just games but if it was world peace it would be a big problem. The issue is the action itself is intrinsically wrong so it shouldn't be condoned in any professional setting regardless of the consequences.

    Mostly I just want the video game media to know that I (maybe we?) care about this kind of thing and that they should have professional integrity so that we can trust their word to be uninfluenced by people who have a stake in something doing well.

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