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  1. #761
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    I'm not really up on the workings of HBO and all that, but I'm not sure why they felt the need to essentially cram two books into one season.

    I feel like there was easily enough material between The Faith Militant, Dorne and re-introducing the Greyjoys, along with what we had, to fill out 2 seasons. Give them time to introduce and establish people like Arianne and Euron. Make the The Sparrows taking over King's Landing not seem completely stupid. Obviously the counter to that is another season where it feels like people are treading water. General opinion seems to be if they didn't condense Feast and Dragons nothing would've happened, but then both the Dornish and the Ironborn stories have arcs that could last a season, maybe? And damn it, a full-fat version of the Sand Snakes plus Euron hamming it up would have been enough excitement for anyone.

    But then again there could be any number of reasons why this stuff happens. Cast contracts were locked to 7 seasons? They just wanted to get to the end game quicker? Ultimately GRRM said some of those sub-plots aren't really important?

    Anyway, it certainly felt like the weakest season so far for me, with a few bright spots. I'm not sure if the wheels are quite coming off yet, but they need to start being ruthless with the screen time of their main cast. Jaime barging in on the Dorne story was the worst example. He just didn't need to be there. Even in the show he couldn't come up with a good reason why he was going. Bronn is fun but his story should be done and dusted, he's just a walking quip dispenser at this point.

    I will give the show credit for having Wun Wun as a named character, though.

  2. #762
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    Quote Originally Posted by DiamondDog View Post
    I'm not really up on the workings of HBO and all that, but I'm not sure why they felt the need to essentially cram two books into one season.

    I feel like there was easily enough material between The Faith Militant, Dorne and re-introducing the Greyjoys, along with what we had, to fill out 2 seasons. Give them time to introduce and establish people like Arianne and Euron. Make the The Sparrows taking over King's Landing not seem completely stupid. Obviously the counter to that is another season where it feels like people are treading water. General opinion seems to be if they didn't condense Feast and Dragons nothing would've happened, but then both the Dornish and the Ironborn stories have arcs that could last a season, maybe? And damn it, a full-fat version of the Sand Snakes plus Euron hamming it up would have been enough excitement for anyone.

    But then again there could be any number of reasons why this stuff happens. Cast contracts were locked to 7 seasons? They just wanted to get to the end game quicker? Ultimately GRRM said some of those sub-plots aren't really important?

    Anyway, it certainly felt like the weakest season so far for me, with a few bright spots. I'm not sure if the wheels are quite coming off yet, but they need to start being ruthless with the screen time of their main cast. Jaime barging in on the Dorne story was the worst example. He just didn't need to be there. Even in the show he couldn't come up with a good reason why he was going. Bronn is fun but his story should be done and dusted, he's just a walking quip dispenser at this point.

    I will give the show credit for having Wun Wun as a named character, though.
    Well, I rather liked those books, but I know there were some who thought they were too much trading water and not enough happening. And too many side plots and new characters.
    So we went from 2 books with possibly too much filler, to one season with too much cut out. (Hence my suggestion that they should have made it 15 episodes and expanded on dorne etc..)

    To be fair to them, they were the least well received books, and the idea to split the books geographically was monumentally dumb... so if they'd made the books into 2 seasons then they'd have had big problems with chronology and endings.
    (Option 1 - do one book for each season, but that means everything is out of order and major characters have to sit out one season or the other. And it was dumb in the books).
    (Option 2 - combine the books into 2 chronological seasons, but then the first season is basically just the first half, and has no major events and no big ending).

    I would like to have seen Asha and Euron and the iron islands, but that plus a decent dorne would probably have been too much for even a 15 episode season. it sounds like we might be getting it next season...
    I'd have loved to see a decent Dorne, we a decent Arriane, Quentyn, Doran, Sand Snakes, etc...
    Personally, and I know some disagree, I'd even have liked to have seen Griff & Young Griff and some of the other new additions.

    So, overall, I get their reasoning, but I don't totally agree with it, and I don't think they did a great job. But on the other hand I also get that it was a very tough choice with no right answer and maybe they did about as good a job as they could have under the circumstances. (but I wish they'd done better on Dorne).

    given the criticism they get over their portrayal of women, it's doubly surprising that they dumped Arriane and turned the sand snakes into basically one sexy scene.

  3. #763
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    Quote Originally Posted by BillButNotBen View Post
    That's what I mean. The books did do what you're suggesting. The later series of the show actively avoided it.
    That's all the more odd then, as the relatively faithful adaptation of the source material was one of the things that people and critics alike praised in the first seasons. I wonder why HBO lost the confidence to continue in that manner and instead opted for a more traditional tv drama style of dragging character-based storylines out as long as possible, even to the point of inventing new ones. Unsurprisingly this choice also led to an increasing number of contrived shock-moments and silly cliffhangers, as is the usual way American tv dramas are written.
    "He has anointed me to bring good news to the poor. He has sent me to proclaim release to
    the captives and recovery of sight to the blind, to let the oppressed go free". ~
    Luke 4:18

  4. #764
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    Nah I think the books had the problem as well in that moat of it was filler with some strong points but I don't feel they would of worked in the show.

    Dorne was the right call over Iron Islands they are closer to the kings landing story. Needing somebody to be in the Ramsey scenes so we care whats happening there is probably why Sansa is there. Brienne story while nice world building really doesn't do much so I can easily see it cut out. Cerseis storyline is actually a lot more better in the show then it is in the books, same with Jon Snow.

    I would say the showrunners did some right things with the adaptation but lost the ball on executing it all.

  5. #765
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    Some people's filler is other people's book. I guess.

    I guess they saw the reaction to the later books where people weren't so keen on some new characters and wanted more Tyrion etc.. and they decided to "fix" that. But I'd say that lead to this season of the show having the opposite problem to the books.

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