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  1. #501
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    Just to be clear - I did 2 Oval races and managed a whopping +0.02 overall - so it's actually FIFTY races to 3.0 (and Race and Oval having different SR systems is utterly unfathomable!?)

    Time Trials are dead boring - they're not hotlap competitions, they're regularity trials (I believe it takes your most consistent X consecutive laps?) - the one I tried scored me a whopping +.01SR!

    My experience last night was learning the SR system is shit and nonsense and can be gamed - the fact is someone deliberately took-out 3 cars and the cars he took out were punished (I suspect they use the simple logic of 'who was ahead on the track' - in fact I know this because in Race 1 someone drove through the pack in the formation lap, crashed into the car ahead of me, I tapped his bumper and I got penalised!!)

    Overall I've enjoyed iRacing more than I expected and it's eminently playable (but not really competitive) with a pad. I love the way the MX-5s handle and the Road races I did were OK. The Ovals were more fun than I expected but the competition was hellish and I can't even begin to consider doing dozens of races like that just to get away from 'some of the idiots' (I'm sure there are still idiots in D tho)

    Pay for it tho? Not a hope... Why would you pay to slave your way through rookie - how the hell do they get ANY new players?
    Last edited by trjp; 19-08-2014 at 07:24 PM.

  2. #502
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    iRacing safety rating doesn't portion blame onto any particular driver for an incident. All drivers involved in an incident are given incident points. The way your safety rating increase / decrease is calculated is based on your corners per incident(as well as some other stats like your current license level and safety rating sub level). That's an average calculated on your total corners in the race against the number of incident points you earned. I've seen what I assume is the official formula somewhere out there on the internet, i'll try to dig it up.

    The point being that the safety rating system is a blameless system. It awards incident points to all drivers involved in an incident, no exceptions(except maybe really bad netcode lag).

    Rookie shouldn't take too long to get out of though, some clean racing and you can advance pretty quickly.

  3. #503
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    trjp - a couple of things:
    1. Post replays on the forums, the guys will be happy to offer suggestions on how to do better with those incidents. That said, please go in looking to learn, going in with an attitude will get you ripped apart.
    2. Did you watch the video?
    3. You're assuming that all races will see a 0.02 gain. This is incorrect. Looking through my rookie oval races, it seems 0 inc will yield 0.12-0.14. You start at 2.5 and are aiming for 3.0 to go up, so it can be done in 4 races. If it was that hard (40 races) then yep, the 50000+ people who got out of oval rookie wouldn't have done so, especially back when it used to be a 4.0 target or even when promotions only happened once every 3 months.
    4. When I started I used to whine and complain that all the rookies were wrecking me. I then wised up. I watched replays after my races and looked at things I could do better.
    5. As Rirdeg points out SR is a no-blame system. We can't have live stewards at every race (hundreds of races going off at any given time, it's just not practical) so the system gives you 4 inc for a collision with a car, and the other guy gets the same. Over time the safe guys will get fewer of those, the crazies will get more. This is how the crazies stay in rookie and the rest of us escape.
    6. As I mentioned before, you get a free fast tow and full instant repair. Use it. Finish the race. 1 car collision and no wall collisions or offtracks or loss of control incidents will still see you work your way up reasonably well. I'm guessing you had rather more than just the 4 inc at the end of the race or only completed 3 laps. Fix those and you'll get the +0.12 and get out of rookie quicker.
    7. Ghost some top split street stock and mazda races (Events -> Watch -> Road/oval -> Mazda cup/rookie street stock -> choose the top item in the list of races to get top split -> click on the binoculars. You'll get a better feel for the quality available.
    8. You're judging this on 3 races with people who are likely also in their first ever races. Making your judgement on where we keep our nutters is a lot like judging a hotel after spending the night sleeping in their bins.
    9. Get on the forums and ask for advice. They'll help you to make sure your frame rate is above 60fps and tell you to turn vsync off to reduce input lag. They may advise you to remove the hands on the wheel (and the wheel itself) if you use a wheel. They may be able to suggest better ways to work with a game pad. Either way, the community can help.

    Or you can quit, judging the experience on a tiny sample of 3 races, not getting anywhere near the goodies because you lacked the patience to get out of quarantine. It's all up to you, your experience is in your own hands.
    Last edited by hariseldon; 19-08-2014 at 09:27 PM.

  4. #504
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    I suspect the iRacing oval forums have a "WTF ROOKIE SS!?" thread every two days.

    In fact I checked and there's one there right now called "ill never get out of rookie and iracing rules suck" (sic) - in which a new oval driving asks "What am i suppose to do, just drive around and not go for the win in order to get out of rookie???" and people line up to say "yes."

    It took me 18 races to get out of rookie, which I covered in the span of five days. I used a few Time Trials as between-race practice to keep my eye in and to chip away at the SR. With three qualifying runs I did under 30 events to go from 2.41, (my first oval was a -0.09 SR fun fest), to 3.49, (thanks to the iRacing bump as you go through a license border).

    Ovals were a lot more fun than I expected, (and a lot harder than I gave them credit for when I was in the "foot down, turn left, how hard can it be?" camp), and I didn't find the grind to D too onerous, especially as I was still learning right alongside all these wrecking crazy people.

    I don't run them so much any more - only 3 this year - but once you're in the higher split even in D license, they clean right up. My first oval of this year, six of the top seven runners had zero incidents and the seventh had two incidents, both of which were off tracks for cutting the grass verge out of turn 4 at Charlotte.

    I do like to go back and spectate rookie SS though, simply because it reminds me why I give iRacing money. These people are out there and there's nothing stopping them from joining my Assetto Corsa MP session. That guy who parked sideways in turn 1 of the Nurburgring on Assetto and then drove the wrong way down the front straight deliberately ramming people? I have never seen that on iRacing since I qualified to have the red Rookie tape taken off the back of my car.

  5. #505
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    I raised a question with iRacing and they explained the 'no fault' system - I think I laughed harder than I've laughed for a while ;0

    No - seriously - the whole "just pootle around and stay out of trouble" idea is stupid. Imagine an online FPS where you had to play for 10+ hours "not shooting people" until you could play properly - would anyone play it?

    If you can't apportion blame, don't bother trying. Rate drivers purely on effort/finishes/places/laptimes instead of calling it 'safety' when it's actually 'potluck'. The fact people raise this a lot should be setting-off an alarm somewhere - the fact you all put up with it doesn't make it OK - it's clear they need more players if they're giving it away, perhaps they need to make the initial experience 'less shit'.

    I'm on a free trial here, iRacing is trying to part me from money - saying "just put up with a shitty experience for a few hours" isn't a great place to start is it? They're used to people already having paid money and maybe being willing to get something for it - but I have no such motivation but it COULD have lured me in if it hadn't stepped out from behind the curtain on race 4 and shown me it was an old man in a dress...

    Truth is I was never going to sub - I was never going to race seriously with a pad but I had some curiosity as to how far I could get and I'm pleased with what I did and the pad isn't the issue - the game's shitty ruleset is the issue.

    How the hell hasn't someone offered something better than this dated dogs breakfast??

  6. #506
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    Well, I've tried to help but your attitude makes that impossible. Can't please everyone I guess.

    1. SR isn't perfect but it's the best out there. It works. If it didn't I wouldn't be on it.
    2. It's impossible to get 5 people to agree who is at fault for an incident. How on earth can a computer do it?
    3. It averages out the amount of incidents you have. If you're a safer driver you won't have incidents. If you're going door to door with people you don't yet know or trust, knowing they're newbies, you will have incidents. No pot luck. Various people have done experiments setting up 2nd accounts to see how quick they could get out of rookie. Generally IR and SR will over a period of time level out to your natural level. You're getting hung up about 1 race it seems.
    4. You haven't said much about your own part in your experiences. Post links to your results, I'm curious.
    5. Yep, the initial experience isn't great, but hell that's the only way to keep the main experience good. If we didn't have the rookies they'd be in the main racing structure. That would be hell.
    6. Patience is a virtue. You've shown none, just slagged everything off with unconstructive criticism.
    7. Racing with a pad just doesn't work, even a shitty 30 wheel from argos is an improvement.

    If you go in with a mindset of "I'm perfect, every crash is some other idiot's fault" you will find it unsatisfying. If you figure out that you can learn from every incident, you will get better and enjoy it. The learning curve is steep, it sounds like you can't climb it, and I'm sorry that you're having such a bad experience because of that. I have attempted to help you but you haven't taken the help offered, and thus there is nothing to be done.

    You've not even made the SLIGHTEST effort to get into it and understand it, or made any effort to engage with the community who could truly have helped you (seriously I see so many rookies complain how unfair it is then the community helps them and a few months later they're loving life). You're therefore missing out, which is a shame. I just hope that others reading this thread learn from your mistakes and make a better go of it.

    As you say, you were never going to sub. Seems to me you went in looking for justification on why you shouldn't spend the money. I wish you'd told me that sooner and saved me the effort I went to in trying to help. Oh well.
    Last edited by hariseldon; 19-08-2014 at 10:36 PM.

  7. #507
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    Quote Originally Posted by Mr Bismarck View Post
    I suspect the iRacing oval forums have a "WTF ROOKIE SS!?" thread every two days.

    In fact I checked and there's one there right now called "ill never get out of rookie and iracing rules suck" (sic) - in which a new oval driving asks "What am i suppose to do, just drive around and not go for the win in order to get out of rookie???" and people line up to say "yes."

    It took me 18 races to get out of rookie, which I covered in the span of five days. I used a few Time Trials as between-race practice to keep my eye in and to chip away at the SR. With three qualifying runs I did under 30 events to go from 2.41, (my first oval was a -0.09 SR fun fest), to 3.49, (thanks to the iRacing bump as you go through a license border).

    Ovals were a lot more fun than I expected, (and a lot harder than I gave them credit for when I was in the "foot down, turn left, how hard can it be?" camp), and I didn't find the grind to D too onerous, especially as I was still learning right alongside all these wrecking crazy people.

    I don't run them so much any more - only 3 this year - but once you're in the higher split even in D license, they clean right up. My first oval of this year, six of the top seven runners had zero incidents and the seventh had two incidents, both of which were off tracks for cutting the grass verge out of turn 4 at Charlotte.

    I do like to go back and spectate rookie SS though, simply because it reminds me why I give iRacing money. These people are out there and there's nothing stopping them from joining my Assetto Corsa MP session. That guy who parked sideways in turn 1 of the Nurburgring on Assetto and then drove the wrong way down the front straight deliberately ramming people? I have never seen that on iRacing since I qualified to have the red Rookie tape taken off the back of my car.
    And this pretty much echoes my own experience. Got out of rookie, got clean races, enjoyed the fights with respectful opponents, made a lot of friends (you'll often race against the same guys if you run at set times in set series each week) and generally had an extremely positive experience. It's not perfect but I'm buggered if I can figure out a better way to do pick-up racing.

  8. #508
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    I appreciate your and other people's efforts - but you have to see that you're trotting out a lot of "we know it's shit but bear with it" as well as a lot of "you just don't know how it works"

    I don't care how it works - I've seen how it DOESN'T work and that's my problem with it!

    Just because you put-up-with-it doesn't mean other people should. When I went to school you got beaten by pupils AND teachers but I don't expect today's schoolkids to be beaten just because I was - change will not come about by telling your kids just to "grin and bear it" (tho doing what I did ended-up with the Police involved so I can't recommend that either ;0 )

    I also doubt that SR really does improve the quality of non-rookie racing - I've seen plenty of D licenced people with LOW SRs - I suspect you'll need a lot more than just that 3.0 (buying the more expensive cars and tracks and waiting-out the free trial people perhaps?) :)

    Lastly - on the pad vs wheel thing - as I've said about 10 times, I'm playing iRacing to try to disprove the idea that a pad is an impossible option. I didn't expect to race competitively - I wouldn't have paid to find out - a free trial was too good to ignore tho.

    What I found is that it's quite possible to enjoy iRacing with a pad - the cars are controllable and you can have some fun. My biggest issue is the "both hands in-use for 25 mins" thing and a cordless pad (I've got one somewhere) would help a bit.

    End of the day, it's not the controller, it's the person controlling - I'm tried of this "get a wheel" bullshit, not everyone has the space of the money and - let's be honest here - a racing game launching which NEEDS a wheel will almost certainly fail so if we want new racing games - we need to get used to pads being a viable option I think.

    and I've now played everything out there with a pad - so some degree or other - so I feel I can say that with confidence ;0

  9. #509
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    I'll just leave this here from a D license race. You get out a proportionate amount of fun to the effort you put in.

    ps any shooter that expects a mouse rather than just the keyboard is bound to fail.

  10. #510
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    Quote Originally Posted by hariseldon View Post
    ps any shooter that expects a mouse rather than just the keyboard is bound to fail.
    A better analogy would be a PS4 shooter requiring a keyboard and mouse - which costs $200+ - would that sell well?

    Nope - a racing game can't afford to be 'wheel only'. iRacing even has a joypad configuration wizard - rFactor2 is quite manageable with a pad (moreso than rFactor was at the same point in it's development) and I'm playing Assetto Corsa with a pad configured as a wheel (e.g. I'm playing with EXACTLY the same inputs as a wheel player).

    We have to stop being elitist jerks to people who only have a pad - it's not like people trying to race with a keyboard, a pad has the key things a person needs (analog steer/throttle/brake and enough buttons for the other stuff) - let's bring in more players and not drive them away purely on their choice of peripheral - let's emphasise considerate and enjoyable racing instead eh?
    Last edited by trjp; 20-08-2014 at 02:04 AM.

  11. #511
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    Quote Originally Posted by trjp View Post
    We have to stop being elitist jerks to people who only have a pad
    <facepalm>
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  12. #512
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    Quote Originally Posted by alms View Post
    <facepalm>
    It wasn't aimed at anyone here specifically of course - but EVERY time you look at a thread where someone asks for advice on setting-up a pad (and I've read a LOT of those lately) within 3 posts someone will say "buy a wheel" which is - well - it's between unhelpful and fucking annoying.

    Fact is that more people play racing games with pads than wheels and unless something miraculous happens (like PCs or consoles start coming with built-it wheels) they always will. If you drive those people away from your game - you cut-off the majority of your players. iRacing is an oddity - it's become successful almost for what it doesn't do as what it does and whilst that's great - I'm not sure anyone else could do that (a few have tried - none have really succeeded?)

    Assetto Corsa's developers seem to have recognised the need to appeal to non-wheel-owners - they've put time into a pad setup but, ironically, the game didn't really need it as the wheel controls map to a pad really well (and the pad setup is a bit broken atm)

    Project Cars - having console versions - has to deal with pads as well of course

    Forza and GT are 80% of the racing world and - of course - are native pad games

    GSC 2012 played fine with a pad - I've not played 2013 'Extreme' yet but I can't imagine it's worse?

    and on that topic - I found that you can buy a package of GSC 2013 and Formula Truck with a chunky discount - I'm even tempted myself...

    https://www.plimus.com/jsp/buynow.js...ractId=3204840

    That's 25.37 UK against 19.01 for GSC and 12.66 for Formula Truck separely (prices will vary day-ot-day with xch rates)

  13. #513
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    Long Post Alert: So honestly this has become very frustrating and it's taking tremendous willpower (I lack patience and really need to learn not to get annoyed by people on the internet so much) to prevent myself going full....


    It seems the discussion with trjp has become somewhat unproductive, as he is unwilling to accept advice, and is simply talking without listening. He posts a problem, I offer a solution, he refuses that solution and then complains when his approach doesn't work. He doesn't want to spend any money and he doesn't want to make any effort. Given that in most things you get out in proportion to what you put in, it's not surprising he didn't get much out of it. He went in looking for reasons not to like iRacing and managed to find them. Well done. He asked whether there was any racing that required one to pit for tyres, and in the same breath complained at having to hold the pad for 25 minutes, which is somewhat contradictory. It's not logical, I prefer to discuss things logically, but discussing logic with someone who doesn't use it is somewhat akin to playing chess with a pigeon (feel free to google that image). At this point it seems pointless for me to continue any further with a debate as it's now somewhat akin to debating evolution with a creationist.. here's some evidence.. yeah but God. You've managed to be quite rude, finding any advice or attempt to help "fucking annoying", being dismissive of offers of help and really being quite "fucking annoying" in your own right.

    So, this will be my last post, directed not at trjp, as I accept that he has his view, had it from the start, and will never shake from his belief, rather I shall aim to explain to anyone else reading this what the facts of the situation are and leave it to the reader's judgement to decide which opinion is more valid, someone who 'sampled' it for 3 races with a sub-par setup or someone who has tried pad, wheel without force feedback, wheel with ffb, load cell brakes, single monitor, triple monitor and every other setup in between.


    Pad vs Wheel
    So, I'll start with our most controversial point. First I will begin by considering where iRacing, RF2 et al fit in the market, relating to shooters. I would argue that the hard-core sims sit in a similar point in the racing market to the likes of Counterstrike, while Codemasters stuff sits probably in line with Call of Duty. In all cases, you can use an Xbox controller and it'll work, but if you go to a counterstrike server with that combo the mouse and keyboard guys will rip you to pieces because they can turn much more quickly and precisely and aim more accurately because of the greater range of movement a mouse offers. There are definitely parallels with wheel vs pad in racing.

    For comparison, I will explain some racing situations, and how they are going to go based on using 3 different hardware combos, a pad (I've iRaced with a pad when my wheel broke, thus I can give valid feedback here), a cheap shitty non-force-feedback wheel I started out with in Feb 2013 (http://www.shop.bt.com/products/thru...-360-8LGP.html - 57.66) and the Driving Force GT with force feedback (130 new but I've seen them for 50-80 on eBay). It's worth noting that with the DFGT I stuffed a squash ball down the back of the brake pedal to stiffen it.

    Situation 1 - a corner
    I'm about to take the corner. I will need to brake at about 60% with 5% of trailing throttle to maintain car balance and the wheels will need to point at 11 degrees for optimum slip angle, giving me the best grip and speed through the corner. Anyone who's ever been karting will understand that, where there's a small channel of angle on the wheel where you suddenly feel epic grip as you're going around the corner, move outside of that and grip is less as the tyre scrubs speed, you feel that through the wheel and through the seat. Going fast is about maintaining that epic grip as much as possible.

    So.. the pad. I've got about 1cm of movement on the accelerator and brake triggers, meaning I have about a 1mm range that I need to hit, instantly. Muscle memory for that is pretty tricky. For the wheel, I'll be generous and say 2cm of movement, and assuming 270 degree range of wheel movement that means 1 degree translates to 0.7mm if my maths is correct. Difficult to hit that precisely and I'm not even sure whether the controller allows that level of precision. My chances of getting the right acceleration, brake and wheel movement at the right time are slim.

    The cheap wheel. I've got about 10cm of pedal travel, but the pedals offer little resistence meaning muscle memory is about position rather than pressure. This is ok for the accelerator but not ideal for the brake which tends to be more used in short bursts. To get within 10% of the right accelerator level on the pad I need a 1mm level of accuracy, where with the pedal I require 1cm accuracy. With the wheel I have a 270 degree range of movement, around 60cm at a guess. So, 1cm movement equating to 4.5 degrees. With the wheel I can quickly and naturally find the right position in both wheel and pedal, the only slight issue being that the brake is a tad floppy, a pressure-based approach offering more effectiveness in muscle memory. Looking back I probably should have done something similar to the squash ball mod.

    With the FFB wheel all the above applies, but my brake pedal has a squash ball making it a bit less floppy, and I can feel through the wheel whether I'm at the optimal slip angle.


    Situation 2 - a crash ahead
    With the pad we have already established that I need to be accurate within a tiny tiny range to get any kind of accuracy. With a crash ahead I need to swerve with a little bit of brake, and potentially catch a slide should my car start to get loose. So, with tiny amounts of time I need to get sub-millimetre accuracy. Good luck with that.

    With the cheap wheel I can get it pointed the right way very easily and offer just the right amount of accelerator and brake quickly because I have a large range of movement, I don't have to be as precise. My chances just got better.

    With the FFB wheel I can feel the tyres, so if the car's about to get loose I know about it and can modify my inputs accordingly, giving me an even better chance of making it through the wreck.

    Controller summary
    In short, a pad is sub-optimal in racing as it is in shooting. Some more arcade-oriented games work with the pad. Games like Sonic Racing Transformed, Blur, Need For Speed, etc where you just mash the throttle and turn, where you don't need to think about your corner speed too much or about slip angles, and the game will be giving you some steering assistance, not necessarily doing exactly what you do with your controller but interpreting that as what it thinks you mean to do, much in the way that some shooters will offer aim assist for pad users. This takes all the challenge out of racing. You'll get away with a pad in arcade or simcade games (and sorry folks, Assetto Corsa is a bit simcade in terms of its grip levels) but in wheel-oriented sims, not so much. I enjoy the depth of challenge offered by a true sim as you can learn it very quickly, but mastery takes tremendous amounts of time, there are always new things to learn to get faster and become a better racer. I enjoy learning, and I think that helps me to enjoy sim racing.

    Racecraft
    Let's say you're in a formula 1 race. If you're about to overtake Alonso you know you're going to have a fair fight, a smart driver will be happy to go wheel to wheel with him and fight all the way. Would you do the same with Maldonado? A smart driver would note his erratic driving and give him a little more room. A smart driver knows when to fight and when to let it go. I learned a tonne in rookie, I learned to spot who could and could not drive, I learned to be patient and weigh up the pros and cons of each move, I learned that sometimes it's best to sit in behind a pack that's breaking away from the main group because fighting will just slow the group down, dragging them back to the main pack and thus increase the chances of a crash, so I would hang in there and get them at the end. I learned that some guys can hotlap faster than me but can't race, in those cases I learned to let them past to preserve my own race and then pick up a few free places when they take out a couple of drivers ahead. These lessons made me a better driver when I got to the real stuff. I was already fairly established on the road when I decided to give oval a shot, rookie street stocks sharpened up my reflexes and made me much better in traffic, learning how to anticipate danger, watching the movements of other cars to know in advance when trouble is coming, learning to lift when I see smoke ahead while checking my mirrors to ensure that I don't get rear-ended. Rookie racing is hell but it serves as both quarantine for the nutters and a tutorial level. If you already know how to drive and can do it safely, 4-5 races will get you out (experienced guys have run experiments and done this quite successfully). Tens of thousands have managed it, including kids and pensioners, disabled and able-bodied, male and female, so it's not impossible, and now having been through it and got to the other side, enjoying the clean racing I get now, I'd hate to race without that system.

    Your ego won't help you here
    You will probably go in thinking you're at a certain level. It will shock you initially to find that you're much slower than the regulars. Some people will quit because their ego dictates that they must win every race (they do against AI on their codemasters game, it's what they're used to). Some people will man up and use it as an opportunity to improve.

    I've been beaten by drivers male, female and trans, aged 13 and aged 70, by a guy with one arm and one leg, and no doubt many other combinations of the above. I'm ok with that. They beat me because they're faster, and that's motivation to improve, to get faster, better, cleverer.


    Effort required to get to the good stuff
    One of the things that has come up in this thread (primarily from trjp exaggerating) is that it apparently takes 50 shit races in rookie to get to the good stuff. I'll counter that by pointing out that if you run clean, oval races yield 0.12 SR of the 0.5 you're after per race, while road races offer 0.2-0.3 depending on the track (more corners, SR comes from getting through as many corners as possible without incident, it's literally from your corners per incident ratio) so on oval it can be done in 4-5 races and on road it's 2-3. I don't think that's unreasonable and it has served as an effective quarantine to keep the idiots out. In week 13 of each season iRacing runs fun races without SR which the rookies can join in. That is what racing would be like without this system, and it's ugly. Until someone invents something better, this is good enough for me. So, 4-5 races to find the good stuff.

    Let's compare that to Assetto Corsa, Codemasters games and RF2. AC and RF2 are both similar in that pick-up racing is dreadful, with RF2 being largely dead and AC being not terribly active and featuring a few too many guys who are just there to crash. For both, the only option is league racing, which means that you have to go searching the net for a suitable league running at times that suit you with cars you like at tracks you like. For me, with a full time job and about to start a Masters and of course a social life to maintain, this has proven difficult with only 2 decent RF2 leagues catching my attention but in the end requiring more time than I could offer. You may have more luck with that, if so please let me know about those leagues, they may interest me. The same applies to RF1, Simbin games and Game Stock Car. I'd say that's a lot more effort than required with iRacing. Many leagues request donations to keep their servers up, you could choose not to donate, but if no-one donates, eventually the league is no more. Codemasters games require an annual purchase (hey that's a lot like a subscription) and DLC, and the racing online is simply terrible. I've yet to find any good way to get league racing going in the Codemasters games, but if anyone knows about it, let me know. Will you get racing of the quality shown in the video I posted (the Skip Barber @ Silverstone race)? Possibly in a league, but the disparity between the drivers in terms of ability means the field will be more spread out. In public racing? Yeah good luck with that.


    Final summary
    It's very easy to go to anything with a mindset that it will suck, and miraculously, you will find evidence that it will suck. A little bit of effort, a little bit of understanding, talking to people, accepting ones own weaknesses and willingness to learn will open up a world of fantastic racing which will get you completely hooked. I sucked, but so many people in the community helped me and I helped myself by looking at my replays and seeing what I could do better. Now I'm completely hooked on online racing. Trjp, it's your loss, the rest of us will have fun without you, but if you ever decide to give it a proper shot let me know and I might even help you out. Hell I might even spot for you in a race (ie I join as spectator, mic on, warn you of trouble ahead, give advice, etc) if you're lucky.

    I want to thank the Rock Paper Skid guys (http://www.rockpapershotgun.com/foru...for-RPS-racing) for getting me hooked in the first place, those early races on Race 07 were so exhilerating, but getting everyone together was difficult and I needed something more as the races dried up. Thank you all for getting me into the wonderful world of sim racing, which has helped me to enjoy real racing more [I understand so much more now] and developed into a passion for karting, and me harbouring desires to get a cheap formula ford and hit the track. One day, one day!
    Last edited by hariseldon; 20-08-2014 at 10:23 AM.

  14. #514
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    Bizarre use of not entirely relevant cartoon from person who is trying to 'solve' a problem which they can't actually solve!?

    I get that you (and others) like iRacing - I can see why, to some extent, but my actual experience was poor (something no-one is surprised at really?) so I said-so and moved-on. I didn't tell other people not to try it (quite the opposite, in fact)

    I will say that part of my dislike for it before I played it was my perception of the community and you backed that up by putting down other games - putting down using a pad - putting me down as a sore-loser - generally being a bit condescending which kinda backs-that-up?

    On the wheel front - I have never once said that a pad is better than a wheel but it DOES WORK. Fact is, a large number of people will never buy a wheel either because it's too expensive or they just don't want one/have anywhere to put one and we need those people to buy racing games to make them viable so why not ENCOURAGE them to play rather than swatting them away?

    p.s. as an amusing footnote, I have considered doing another race to see what happens but every single fucking time I look at the clock it's around half-past-the-hour and - you guessed it - all the races for rookies are on-the-hour! That's not the 'pick-up-racing' I need ;0

    p.p.s. I went to spectate on some races earlier and - erm - you have to BUY some tracks and cars before you can even spectate those races (RUFs - for example) - - really!!?? - wowzers ;0
    Last edited by trjp; 20-08-2014 at 10:47 AM.

  15. #515
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    I'm done with this. Enjoy your opinions. No point debating stuff with someone who doesn't listen. There is just literally no logic to be found in your posts. I give up. I enjoy a debate, and I'm happy to be proven wrong, and will change my opinion where it is shown to be wrong. This however is not a debate, so I'm done. Trjp, you're right about everything in the world and have never ever been wrong about anything, you're a better racer than Vettel, iRacing should have bowed down and worshipped your might and because they did not, they will find themselves struck by lightening, for you, yes you trjp, you are a god among men and can summon that lightning. Have mercy on us oh lord trjp, for we have all sinned.

    If anyone else has anything constructive to say, I'll engage them in discussion, trjp however, is a god and as a mere mortal I cannot hope to comprehend the world as he does. All hail trjp.

  16. #516
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    both-feet-in, gentlemen.

  17. #517
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    You can laugh - I did another oval race! I had half-an-hour before I needed to dress for a funeral and needed something to take my mind off it (still trying - waiting for taxi)

    It was - erm - uneventful. One person tried their damnedest to hit me but missed (just) - I finished where I started (6th) - a whopping +.13SR and no lap records or anything exciting.

    Your "I must win everything" guy was there - easily fastest in practice, pole with scorching qual time, drove like the track was empty and crashed into first person he "probably didn't" see/saw - then spent 10 mins threatening to report everyone on the circuit - drove out of the pits into the wall, talking out 2 other cars - disconnected...

    Took a peek at the series standings - in the rookie SS there is an actual Rookie in the top 20 - he's done FIFTY ONE races and is just 2.77 - but he's in the Top 20 anyway ;0

    It's been emotional ;0

  18. #518
    Quote Originally Posted by trjp View Post
    Took a peek at the series standings - in the rookie SS there is an actual Rookie in the top 20 - he's done FIFTY ONE races and is just 2.77 - but he's in the Top 20 anyway ;0
    iRating isn't tied to SR. He can be as fast as he likes and finish in on the podium every race, but if he gets there with lots of incident points he won't progress out of rookie. Driving safe is the factor for progression. iRating isn't something I'd worry about as a rookie.

    Its been interesting reading, especially as someone recently returned to iRacing. I think it is fair to say that it isn't the game for everyone. It certainly isn't Trjps cup of tea it seems, and I respect that. I found it a hard game to "get" initially. Even calling it a meer "game" will get you the evil stare from some people.

    You have to treat iRacing like a career, and settle for having a safe race rather than a fast race. I've been trying Skip Barbers, and I'm happy if I finish on the lead lap, let alone in the top 5. If that isn't appealing, look elsewhere :)

  19. #519
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    Eesh I turned into an internet arsehole didn't I. Did I mention patience isn't my strong point? Re-reading posts a few hours later can often reveal that one has been an arsehole, and the points I made would have been better made sans-arsehole. My apologies for the arsehole element to my post.

    Anyway, let's see if I can be civil and not a twat. So.. a couple of things that occur to me. Trjp is running street stocks (which is where the worst racing on iracing occurs, much much worse than mazda cup in my opinion) and there's a free trial running. During free trials in the past there have tended to be a lot more people complaining about how awful it is running in the rookie races. Perhaps then the mistake here was mine in encouraging people to sign up at a time when the initial experience was going to be poor.

    Tjrp - that's more like it in terms of getting out of rookie. A few more of those and you'll be out in the real iracing. Note that getting out of rookie on the oval side only unlocks the oval side, not the road side. You'll need to do the same there. It will happen quicker though as mentioned previously. Once you're out, you can start racing people, and as you get better (and your iRating improves) the experience will improve.

    That rookie (the top 20 chap) is probably a long-term rookie, as I think it takes 8 of 12 weeks scores to determine championship position [certainly does in non-rookie but I think rookie too, I may be wrong though, someone will hopefully correct me if so], and as most people get out of rookie in a couple of weeks they never get to be high in the championship. It means he's probably full retard. As Wivelrod also notes, he's probably fast but wrecks a lot. It's likely that he wins a lot of high SOF (SOF=standard of field - basically the average irating of everyone taking part) races but when he doesn't win he wrecks his car on lap one and takes out half the field. It's also of course possible that he gets car contact incidents and still wins. As he's stuck in rookie you can see that the system is working.

    I would agree that there needs to be some way to make the initial experience more pleasant, I did ok because I read the forums and got a lot of good advice but I get that a lot of people won't do that. The problem is how to do that, because without rookie quarantining the idiots, the main service would be a living hell. Probably better signposting of how it works (and I mean within the game rather than in the forums or via youtube videos) would help. Better information about why things like FOV matter and how to set it up correctly, better info on how to get your controller of choice set up perfectly, etc. Ultimately we still need to have a way to keep the nutters in quarantine (just as a lot of minecraft servers limit what you can do until you've proven yourself trustworthy) but iRacing needs to do a better job of explaining that.

    I'll agree that the community has hot-button topics that will cop you some abuse. Calling it a game, demanding fixed setup series, dirt racing, all of these things are potential mines to step on, and the community could sometimes do with calming down a little.

    Wivelrod, I worked my way up to be a top split regular in the Skippy after some months as a mid-pack guy in the bottom split so you can improve over time, because you'll just keep learning more stuff as you go. I'm now splitting my time between the Lotus 79 and the Dallara DW12 (road and oval) and I'm back to being the slow guy again, but it's a fun learning curve. I'll catch the fast guys soon enough, and that challenge is part of what makes it fun. There's always something to aim for.

  20. #520
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    I'll just drop this here. Hope nobody minds...



    In other news, over in RFactor 2 land, the devs (ISI) have released updates for all their GT cars (see http://rfactor.net/web/2014/08/15/ni...-c6-r-updated/)

    Pleased to see implementation of chassis flex, which has been a huge improvement for the other cars (and enabled them to make those amazing karts), for me that's the big win but there are plenty of other useful upgrades.
    Last edited by hariseldon; 20-08-2014 at 01:40 PM.

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