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  1. #521
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    As a counter-point to the IndyCar above, this is a video showing the guys SR keeps away from the main series. It really is beautiful.



    Start about 3 minutes 10 in.

  2. #522
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    One thing I can say - and which may or may not prove that SR does work - is that the 'Racing Standard' number it gives for the drivers in a race pretty much lines-up with the experiences I've had.

    Lower the number - more morons on the track!

    I think doing races in the morning (UK) is a good move - esp once the schools go back - the US is asleep, the kids are at school - it's just us "self employed" or "unemployed" types playing ;0

    p.s. I'd kill for a way of setting a deadzone on the pad steering - the inbuilt one doesn't work and I can't get x360ce/pgp/durazno to work with iRacing (probably due to the way it launches from the browser?)

  3. #523
    Secondary Hivemind Nexus Prolar Bear's Avatar
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    Crosspost - if anybody is up for an AC session join us in the RPSkid steam chatroom? Or the RPS chatroom even.

  4. #524
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    Not at my PC right now but tomorrow I'll look into the pad dead zone.

  5. #525
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    We've been distracted in various ways here but I think it's time I highlighted that people in this thread (or at least this forum) talked me into getting Assetto Corsa and

    FUCKING HELL WERE THEY RIGHT!!

    For someone like me - who wants a realistic-feeling and highly engaging driving experience with a nice selection of well done cars and tracks - it's absolutely belting!! It's perfectly playable with a pad - obviously better with a wheel - looks nice, sounds nice - what's not to love?

    Between a bit of tinkering and playing around plus the hotlaps we're running I've clocked 44 hours thusfar and there are cars and tracks I've not looked at - I've not touched multiplayer or it's challenges - the career mode isn't even there yet - I've not even raced the AI!

    Worth a buy!

  6. #526
    Secondary Hivemind Nexus alms's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by trjp View Post
    It wasn't aimed at anyone here specifically of course - but EVERY time you look at a thread where someone asks for advice on setting-up a pad (and I've read a LOT of those lately) within 3 posts someone will say "buy a wheel" which is - well - it's between unhelpful and fucking annoying.
    Heh. So basically you're the pad crusader come to the Internet to save us from a life of slavery those damn wheel elitists want to choke us with?








    ...c'mon!

    Ok, serious (boring) reply:

    Quote Originally Posted by trjp View Post
    It wasn't aimed at anyone here specifically of course
    - but EVERY time you look at a thread where someone asks for advice on setting-up a pad (and I've read a LOT of those lately) within 3 posts someone will say "buy a wheel" which is - well - it's between unhelpful and fucking annoying.
    That's not not a pad or wheel or sim specific thing, a lot of people only need the slightest provokation to enter "throw money at problem" mode, and by extension, to tell others about the money they threw which now makes them all smug and so self-satisfied.

    It is my belief that this is at least partly explained by the following consideration: in any given hobby, a sizeable portion of what is trying to pass as practitioners is instead people-who-spend-money-in-a-specific-money-spending-niche-for-money-spending-and-possibly-bragging-rights-purposes.

    Indeed, excess disposable income seems to be a harder to solve problem for a part of the civilized world than what settings would work better for a pad.

    Added bonus, it gives them a subject for conversation. Much more interesting than boring stuff like pad settings. It's got new powerful motors that will cut your fingers off on a slide! ripped away from the most powerful RC car ever made!

    Quote Originally Posted by trjp View Post
    Fact is that more people play racing games with pads than wheels
    You're doing yourself a disservice mixing sims and games again. For sims, alternate input devices (i.e. anything other than a wheel) are to be regarded as a gateway drug.

    That is not elitism: having a computer wheel affixed to my deks does not make me better than anyone else. The average joe would argue I'm worse than everyone else, still playing with toy wheels at my age! vroom vrooom! beeeeeeeeep.

    Quote Originally Posted by trjp View Post
    and unless something miraculous happens (like PCs or consoles start coming with built-it wheels) they always will. If you drive those people away from your game - you cut-off the majority of your players. iRacing is an oddity - it's become successful almost for what it doesn't do as what it does and whilst that's great - I'm not sure anyone else could do that (a few have tried - none have really succeeded?)
    And I agree with that: hardcore sims will always be more niche than racing games, not because they don't support pads (well or at all) though, rather because they aim to reproduce a sport, and unless you're pissing around for money-spending-and-possibly-bragging-rights, practicing sports is hard.
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  7. #527
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    Assetto Corsa -
    It's fun to drive but obviously that's only interesting up to a point, after all the whole point of cars wot go fast is to race them! The AI is ok, though for me the AI in RF2 is better and while multiplayer has rather more players than RF2 the game has attracted a large population of 4-chan-dwellers (they make bottom split rookie ovals look good) and getting onto a server can be rather hit-and-miss (before you even get into issues like being able to edit a file in notepad to hack in more grip, a poor race day experience where it's not always clear what session you're in, archaic mod handling, etc). At this point the official track selection is somewhat limited with very few of the mods out there being worth the time to download them (too many RFactor 1 conversions for my money, conversions are fine as a base point but one should then spend the time to up the poly count, improve the artwork, throw some modern hi-res textures at it, etc).

    Re sim vs game thing -
    I'd rather drive a sim, there's more depth to the challenge, which makes it a longer-lasting experience. Re the wheel thing, as alms notes it's not elitism, it's simply that it'll give you a better experience. People are advising it not to be elitist assholes but because it's a better experience, believe it or not they're trying to help you. As a kid I used to LOVE the proper arcade cabinets with a proper car seat, wheel, pedals, gearstick, etc cos dammit that was as close as 10-year-old me was ever going to get to driving a car. It also made it so much more immersive. That's kinda the whole reason I wanted a wheel and pedals as a grown-up. The wheel made it more fun. I got load cell pedals to make my pedal inputs smoother and more consistent, but also because it damn well feels better (ie the brake feels like the brake on a real car), and I got triple screens because it's damned immersive and I can see more of the road ahead (which helps me with blind corners and gives me an edge in wheel-to-wheel combat). That setup is also damned useful in other games btw.

    I think the difference in a way is that a game is something you play and eventually beat, you unlock all the levels, and winning a race might be down to whether you manage to unlock a banana skin or a boost or whatever. A sim is, as alms suggests, closer to sport, in that there's always someone better than you, and you can beat them if you practice, if you work at being better. For me it's been positive as it's opened up a world of offline motorsport and the skills have transferred. It's niche, but these guys are doing ok, they're sensible in that they work with small teams and work within their means, happy to work with a niche but growing audience. That niche isn't necessarily super-hardcore gamers, but in fact consists of quite a mix, including some older people who really aren't gamers but love racing, and there's nothing wrong with serving a niche, indeed for a smaller company it makes a lot of sense to do that. Taking on Codemasters for the simcade customers is never going to work, so RF2 tackle the league racers, Assetto Corsa straddle simcade and sim and could well be an excellent gateway drug to more advanced sim racing (if the modding scene improves and leagues take off) and iRacing tackles pick-up racing (you can argue that the races being scheduled isn't true pick-up but that schedule is what ensures that people have practiced and that there are usually plenty of people for a given race, it works for most people, that I can get a race in a car I enjoy at a track I like with a decent field in half an hour is for me pick-up racing, especially as I always have a quick 10-minute practice to get myself ready prior to any race).

  8. #528
    Secondary Hivemind Nexus Grizzly's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by hariseldon View Post
    People are advising it not to be elitist assholes but because it's a better experience, believe it or not they're trying to help you.
    Although it does get grating after a while to have to explain all the time that you don't have the money and the space for the wheel, only to have others explain that one should make space or save money for the wheel and aaargh. It always boils down to discussions like thing.
    (Even though wheels are awesome, and I honestly need to replace this old Logitech Momo, I am currently facing the same issues again - as I want in my apartment. THat's the problem right there - everytime you hold this discussion I start becoming a bit jealous :P.

    Incidently, Hariseldon, what wheel are you using?
    Last edited by Grizzly; 21-08-2014 at 09:35 AM.
    The above post was actually about ethics in games' journalism.

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  9. #529
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    Re money, a decent Logitech DFGT (what I use - also used by a lot of the REALLY FAST guys) can be had for 50-80 on ebay. Mine is presently clamped to the dining table (easy to remove and put away) in my small but perfectly formed 2-bedroom flat, and even the triple monitors fit reasonably well (I've got them on top of tuppaware containers from poundland to get them at eye-level so that the effect works properly, and when it comes to dinner I just push them to the back of the table so me and the mrs can have plenty of room to eat [though sometimes we'll put something on the middle screen to watch with dinner], so it's possible to do it with limited room. The downside of this setup is that my dining chair is NOT comfortable, but strapping a pillow to it when I'm racing does the trick. Pretty sure that setup doesn't count as elitist!

  10. #530
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    For a lot of people, having a dining table is elitist these days - not sure putting monitors on it changes that or not!? :)

    Problem with the DFGT is - and has always been - that they don't really last long if you use them "as intended" - esp the FF mechanism and the pedals - esp if someone's been a bit heavy handed/footed with it.

    50+ is quite a lot to risk on eBay (when a new one is often under 100 and proper refurbs someones appear around 74 with a bit of warranty left) - of course you MIGHT get a toy someone bought and never really used - you might get something someone has driven into the ground and doesn't work.

    If I were looking, I'd look locally and I'd look for someone selling a complete wheel/stand setup because

    a - they won't make much out of the whole lot
    b - because it's a boys toy - probably dumped in the garage or spare bedroom ;0
    c - you can more easily see the level of use and wear it's had
    d - you can kick the tyres before buying it

    Buying one sight-unseen from eBay - like throwing money into a magic hat ;0

    p.s. someone locally has a G25 wheel/pedals/stand/seat setup in the local paper for 120 - that's the sort of thing you want (I wouldn't dare!)

  11. #531
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    My DFGT has taken some abuse tbh and been absolutely fine. I'd say you'll get a good couple of years use out of one (had mine a year and no sign of trouble yet) and the advantage it has over many wheels is the excellent range of buttons (and excellent placement of buttons) on the wheel. This is relevant because typically for online racing games you'll want to map a few key phrases (eg "Sorry", "Thanks", "Pass Left", "Pass Right", "You're a fucking moron who can't drive for shit I'm going to fucking protest you" and the classic "I'm just here for SR" [usually said just before wrecking the field) and for the more advanced cars like the indy where in ovals you'll be messing with the weight jacker to make it tighter or looser as the tyres go off, messing with your front and rear ARB (road or oval) and messing with your brake balance (typically road.. as tyres get old and fuel gets lighter the car's handling changes so you sometimes need to compensate with brake balance - some crazy bastards though change it on a per-corner basis but I'm not that leet).

    PS the dining table is far from elitist, it was 30 from Ikea! My point was more that I've improvised with what limited space I have, and a bit of creativity goes a long way (I know one chap turned a cupboard into a racing setup for instance, I'll see if I can find pictures if anyone is interested).

  12. #532
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    It's not the quality of the dining table - it's the fact that people just don't have one because they eat in-front of the TV of some other anti-social barbarous shit ;0

  13. #533
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    Jesus have I just been outed as a bit middle class? Have I accidentally become a bit posh? Crap.

  14. #534
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    This thread is becoming slightly hilarious.

    On topic, if and when I move abroad I'm gonna get an used DFGT.

  15. #535
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    Quote Originally Posted by hariseldon View Post
    Jesus have I just been outed as a bit middle class? Have I accidentally become a bit posh? Crap.
    God no - but the masses look at we dining-table-users and think that we think our shit doesn't stink ;0 You'll be telling us you have and use a cooker next (for more than warming takeaways!) - that makes us POSH.

    In other news - am I right in thinking that if you were lucky enough to get a 3.0SR you'd want to stop playing until the end-of-the-season so as to avoid risking losing it (as promotions don't happen mid-season, even for rookies?)

    Not that it'll happen - today's oval race was packed with cousin-fuckers - 3-4 MASSIVE pile-ups which I avoided but 2 people drove into the back of me and left me with a -.09 (lowest SR overall!?) for my trouble. I can't even begin to imagine how it works - but it's really, really stupid - I'm at the point now where I play it more out of sheer amazement what people will put-up-with than any actual interest in the driving bit.
    Last edited by trjp; 21-08-2014 at 12:02 PM.

  16. #536
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    This link might be useful - http://members.iracing.com/jforum/po...t/3253857.page (sorry non-iracers, you can't read it)

    Nope, once you hit that magical 3.0 you're D license and never have to go back to rookie again. As I think I may have previously mentioned though when I got my D I still ran Street Stock as the higher splits were actually pretty good fun, but now I'm an A license so I miss all the fun (not allowed in there with anything above a D but there is a separate C and above series). Just wondering, have you gone back to road or is that not something that interests you? I know oval is easier with a controller [ie I can do a lap without dying] than road so maybe that's a factor.

    I will again say that if you finished with -0.09 I'm guessing you quit early. Did you? If so, DON'T! Shift-R, get your free instant repair, get back out there. SR is corners per incident, so more corners completed, fewer incidents received, that'll get your SR up. And as I mentioned before, please look at replays, both from your own car and from the car that hit you (if you don't know how let me know) as you'll learn something from that every time.

    I will suggest spending time in practice (no SR loss or gain there) and practice multiple lines and rapid swerves and braking manoevres so that when wrecks happen you're ready to react. What has your practice schedule been like so far? (hint: if you've not practiced you're doing it wrong)
    Last edited by hariseldon; 21-08-2014 at 01:33 PM.

  17. #537
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    No quitting - my race went

    Start in 11th (of 16) - gain 6 places thanks to first corner carnage - keep that for many laps (despite at least 3 more major multi-car wrecks) - get reared-ended into the pit wall somewhere around Lap 17 forcing me to 'reset' (I didn't realise there was a fast reset so it took a while to fix the car) - leave in 16th and get rear-ended 2 laps later by the same prick - keep going to end in slightly wonky car

    I think I did 30 laps out of 40 - was running at the end of the race...

    Do they penalise you for just sitting in the pits I wonder - might be a plan ;0

    p.s. as an aside, how do you do a stop-go penality without the game changing your tyres etc. too?

    p.p.s. I'm off road races until I can get a deadzone mod to work - you don't "go straight" on ovals enough to matter but on a track it's a ballache having to correct the car on straights...
    Last edited by trjp; 21-08-2014 at 01:34 PM.

  18. #538
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    No quitting, good. The rear-ender, I'm assuming this happened either as the guy was overtaking or he was on your bumper for a while and eventually lost it enough to hit you. At rookie level you can't trust people enough to have them that close. Seriously, let them past. Remember good racecraft is about spotting who is an Alonso and who is a Maldonado. In rookie they're ALL Maldonados. The best way to let people past is to go high, let them have the inside. I would also say that when being lapped (and the second incident you will undoubtedly have been in the process of being lapped) it is considered good form to let the guys a lap ahead through, we don't like being held up by backmarkers.

    I reckon I'll be able to offer a bit more help if you post an rpy file of the incidents if you have them (see https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=28-r6AMC8Jc to learn how) and I'll be able to help you, or if you post on the iRacing forums in the 'Your Latest Race' or the 'Rookie Oval Cars' forums people will be able to take a look and help with some tips on defensive driving [pm me a link here if you do and hey maybe I might spot for you sometime if I know your in-game name].

    I know you want to race, but honestly, the good stuff is there once you get out of rookie but the single biggest hurdle you need to get through is that rookie is all about getting out of rookie, it's not racing, it's survival. We weed out the weak and the stupid and the strongest make it into our real races. A lot of rookies start out with that problem and they often have a right old moan on the forums, but once they get their heads around it they get to the D-class races and actually have some fun.

    Oh.. and pits.. no penalty for sitting there but you're not gaining corners in your corners per incident. Remember you want to complete more corners with fewer incidents. This week at USA is a bad week for it as the wreck rate is traditionally higher than at Charlotte. Next week is Charlotte again and you'll gain a tonne of SR if you're smart, trust me. But don't sit in the pits. You always want AS MANY CORNERS COMPLETED WITHOUT INCIDENT AS POSSIBLE.

    On preventing the tyres being changed, you could press F5 (I think to show tyres etc) but what I do is at the start of the race I press 'T' for chat and type '#clear' without quotes, this clears tyres and fuel. There are other similar commands out there to preset amounts of fuel, which tyres to change (oval racers often only change one side), etc.

    I'll see what I can find when I get home re the deadzone. That said, posting on the forum someone may be able to get you an answer more quickly.
    Last edited by hariseldon; 21-08-2014 at 01:52 PM.

  19. #539
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    Quick money-saving tip for those who are interested, until September 2nd, iRacing are running one of their "$25 credits for $20" and "$100 credits for $75" promos again, they happen a couple of times a year, so you can use that to get some credit, spend that when the black friday "1 year for $49" comes up and get some tracks and cars while you're at it.

  20. #540
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    On the accident thing - first accident someone just came around the corner lower and behind me and drove through me coming out of the corner - short of parking-up there's no way to avoid that.

    Second accident I was running side-by-side with a slower car and someone just ran into the back of me AND the other car - again, short of just pootling around the inside there's no point.

    Way I see it, what you have to "learn" as a rookie is what the track is like with 15 other drivers on it. People keep emphasising solo practice but I think that just makes people feel like "they're quick and they know the track" - when all they know is how to drive on it alone.

    This is why the "no blame" system punishes people trying to learn - I'd have been happier with a "hitting a car in-front of you which is moving over Xmph is a penalty" rule (and disabling reverse gear outside the pitlane perhaps) - that would teach people to avoid the coloured moving objects which weren't there in practice ;0

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