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  1. #201
    Secondary Hivemind Nexus alms's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by trjp View Post
    It is the first game I've ever played which models FWD cars properly - if you've overcooked it a bit, keeping your foot-in is a better tactic than braking (as with real cars) - every other game just models understeer as 'you need to slow down to rescue it'.
    You can't be serious.
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  2. #202
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    Quote Originally Posted by alms View Post
    You can't be serious.
    I'll admit I don't go out of my way to drive FWD shopping trolleys in racing games - but every time I've found myself stuck in one it's modelled understeer as 'slow down to get control back' or even 'brake for magic grip restoration'

    In reality - if you have spare tarmac, mashing the gas can pull an FWD car out of understeer and this seems to model that. Furthermore, lifting-off should make the best ones switch into oversteer (205GTi) or pick-up a rear wheel (Mk1/2 Golf GTi) but I've not tested that here ;0

    I also got around to trying the pad settings suggested in this video

    https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=iu-M1bBK9Bk

    I'd spent enough time with the stock settings to figure the issues - basically you can drive the car AOK but if you overcook it, you have almost no hope of catching even a slight slide. I'd even begun to think that the cars were, in fact, just a bit too loose but I loaded-up those settings and...

    It was a revelation to be honest - it's like a different game. It actually feels like an easier game, a hauled 3 seconds out of my best lap on the first attempt!! You have more control and you can catch small slides with ease which means you push much harder. Moreover, the crazy 'pendulum' slides are gone, it seems they were entirely the product of the stock settings and not the physics at all!!

    It's not 100% good news, going into a corner side-by-side with someone requires nerves of steel because the pad is much twitcher at speed - but that's far better than having absolutely no ability to use "a dab of oppo" :)

    Still no connection with the APP - will practice meanwhile...

  3. #203
    Secondary Hivemind Nexus Faldrath's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by neema_t View Post
    I'm tempted, but Simply CD Keys has Grid: Autosport for £17. Not sure I should buy either, really, but if I had to choose I think Grid: AS would win. I've got enough sim titles that are more complete than R3E/DTMRE, after all.
    I wrote lots of words about GAS a couple of pages back. I don't have much to add, other than drifting felt easier on a controller than with a wheel.

  4. #204
    Secondary Hivemind Nexus alms's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by trjp View Post
    I'll admit I don't go out of my way to drive FWD shopping trolleys in racing games
    Even if you hadn't driven the 500 in nKp, that statement would still sound like "Braid is the first game that I played where jumping on top of enemies will kill them"

    Quote Originally Posted by trjp View Post
    In reality - if you have spare tarmac, mashing the gas can pull an FWD car out of understeer and this seems to model that.
    Nope. Mashing the gas will make the front lose traction and understeer and this in turn will bring the back in assuming the car is oversteering. This should normally never happen unless the rear axle is experiencing reduced traction than the front, because "shopping trolleys" are set up to be intuitive to drive, i.e. drift outwards the corner (understeer) when stepping too heavily on the gas, and come back in when you lift.

    Performance oriented FWD are a different matter because they are usually set up to allow for lift-off oversteer.
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  5. #205
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    The 500 in nkP is zero fun to drive - considering the other cars on-offer it's like moving in treacle so I've not spent long enough in it to comment.

    I can assure you that the 'keep the boot in' approach works for most performance FWD cars tho - my boy-racer years were the mid-late 80s so I owned or regularly drove all the classics (Golf 1/2, Scirroco, Corrado, R5GT, 205, R19 GTi even a 21 Turbo) and being committed is definately the plan with FWD (plus stepping-off again makes 205s oversteer!) :)

    The understeer you get when entering a corner in an FWD car is there to wake you up. Understeer isn't just "lost grip", FWD cars are setup to understeer progressively but you can influence the line with power. Most of what people see as understeer is a Force-Feedback thing for heavy-handed drivers - most of whom will brake (mostly safe, the car will retake the line you intended) but the commited/those who've played with their cars a bit will realise there are times when 'faster is faster' ;0

    Obviously if you pile into a corner WAY fast than accelerating won't help (or braking, probably) but you need to understand that initial understeer is really a 'wrist slap' in many FWD cars (and some RWD ones - Elises are setup to do it, for example - hell even a Zonda has engineered understeer just to keep you on the shiny bit of the road!!).

    The only other game which has made FWD cars interesting to drive is Game Stock Car - it's MINIs are brilliant - but even they don't quite have the FWD/understeer thing right (they bob through corners in a fantastically fun way tho - so they're forgiven!)

  6. #206
    Secondary Hivemind Nexus Grizzly's Avatar
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    played with their cars a bit will realise there are times when 'faster is faster' ;0
    I did this a lot with Race 07 actually. Tune the differentials and you'll find that accelerating into a corner (with consideration, obviously, going flat out will still ruin it) actually gives you a lot more grip then going power off.

  7. #207
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    There's a lot going-on when you put a FWD car into a corner - it's not simply a matter of "going slowly is the quickest way" and there's more than 1 type/cause of understeer.

    Braking moves weight forward over the front wheels - this gives more grip but that grip is lost when you lift-off the brakes - this is called 'lift-off understeer'

    Turning the car causes the tyres to reduce grip (they grip best travelling dead-ahead) - that's "turn-in understeer"

    Lastly, going too quickly will turn into a skid - that's called "plough-on understeer" or "definately hitting the tree" ;0

    POWAH" can help the first 2 - firstly it makes the front of the car 'squat' which can cancel out the effect of lifting-off the brakes - secondly it can cancel-out 'turn-in' slip because it's pulling the car back to 'dead ahead' with the tyres.

    I think alms is picturing all understeer as 'plough-on' and it might be hard to detect the other types in a sim - we rely purely on skidding noises, our eyes and any FF the controls give us.

    Perhaps AC is simply a better at communicating that, but I cannot remember FWD feeling quite so 'right' if you get it moving around a bit (indeed - many games just don't FWD cars to be slidey - they only model FWD as 'plough-on understeer').
    Last edited by trjp; 05-07-2014 at 03:14 PM.

  8. #208
    Secondary Hivemind Nexus neema_t's Avatar
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    Obligatory:

    Not trying to add anything, I just think it's quite impressive that a car with such a limited steering angle (I assume he applied full lock, anyway) could recover from a huge slip angle like that.

  9. #209
    Sounds like he was suitably motivated ;)

    I was expecting him to throw a whole heap of opposite lock into it to save it, but he doesn't even seem to start to do so, just floors it.
    Last edited by Thermal Ions; 05-07-2014 at 02:45 PM.

  10. #210
    Secondary Hivemind Nexus Faldrath's Avatar
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    I'm a complete amateur when it comes to real racing, but watching that video, it does look like the guy got "lucky" that the next turn was to the right and downhill, no? Otherwise it would have been much more difficult to save it.

    In other news, I tried the DTM game and it does look like I can spend many many hours with it. Shame about the silly difficulty levels (novice, amateur, "get real" with no way to manually choose assists and opponent strength...)

  11. #211
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    They've pushed a small update to the RSR App for Assetto Corsa - and it now works for me!! (Well, it connects, I've not posted any times yet)

    Came just-in-time as I was about to throw it into the bin and replace it with this

    http://rivalitempo-softgrip.rhcloud.com/apps

    That remains an alternative I guess...

  12. #212
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    It was indeed faldrath, its a nasty corner, but the BTCC Brandshatch races are always good fun to watch!
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  13. #213
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    I find it quite amusing that someone got an F40 around Maggiore faster than a 458 :)

    Props to them!

  14. #214
    Lesser Hivemind Node Prolar Bear's Avatar
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    I caved in and got AC for 20 bucks on Fart2Slay.com. I'm blaming you guys\ladies. ALL of you.

    EDIT: aaaand it arrived, some hours late but it arrived. Looking forward to setup the community thing!
    Last edited by Prolar Bear; 06-07-2014 at 03:14 PM.

  15. #215
    Secondary Hivemind Nexus Faldrath's Avatar
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    Never heard of that site, so I hope it works for you.

    On related news, the more I play AC the more I love it. What a game.

  16. #216
    Secondary Hivemind Nexus Grizzly's Avatar
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    AC is indeed awesome, and I do really like the way it approaches "early acces": Little content, but what is there is just awesome to play. Great way to get mouth-to-mouth advertising going before the game actually releases.

    In other news, I contacted the RSR live time dudes and they haven't responded so far, so I'll try again today.

  17. #217
    Lesser Hivemind Node Prolar Bear's Avatar
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    The site was fast2play.com (not sure if I was allowed to post it), it's a reseller like G2A and everything worked fine.

    Damn game is downloading, argh be faster. I can't wait for the first inevitable Monaco mod, and for the RUFs as well.

  18. #218
    Secondary Hivemind Nexus Faldrath's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Grizzly View Post
    AC is indeed awesome, and I do really like the way it approaches "early acces": Little content, but what is there is just awesome to play. Great way to get mouth-to-mouth advertising going before the game actually releases.

    In other news, I contacted the RSR live time dudes and they haven't responded so far, so I'll try again today.
    Yep, I haven't even bothered with races yet... all I do is hotlap and I'm perfectly happy, trying this car on that track, etc. (Grid Autosport has been enough to give me my racing fix, and after I'm done with that I'll sink my teeth on the DTM game).

    I found this nice setup guide for AC, I'll start using it later tonight to see if I finally learn how to do it. Last time I tried to properly learn to set up a car was with... GP2, some 15 years ago? More? Yeah. Sigh.
    Last edited by Faldrath; 06-07-2014 at 05:29 PM.

  19. #219
    Lesser Hivemind Node Prolar Bear's Avatar
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    Absolutely loving AC. I pretty much agree with the above opinions about the game being one generation ahead in terms of car physics and feeling, and the content, while not being much for now, is still very well made.
    It runs well and looks pretty to boot, though I'm having trouble with the Nordschleife, it's a tad too laggy. I also got the timing apps, so count me in for a RPS club!

  20. #220
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    Just a small tip - DO NOT START WITH THE F40

    I cannot speak for it's 'reality level' as I've only passengered in one but the AC one isn't the grippiest, it's brakes are - how can I put this - 'period'? and it has power delivery which is roughly

    -3000rpm = nothing whatsoever
    -5000rpm = warm Fiesta performance
    5000rpm+ = someone detonated a bomb inside your rear tyres...

    ;0

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