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  1. #41
    Secondary Hivemind Nexus Zephro's Avatar
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    rFactor 2 does look interesting, but with the online subscription stuff I always had the impression it was for online racing people. I just want a single player career thing I can piss around in really, I am very antisocial when it comes to multiplayer.

  2. #42
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    I used to be antisocial like you, but then I took an arrow.. wait no that's not right but I raced some decent guys in our Rock Paper Skid group and caught the bug. I don't play anything else online tbh but racing online is epic with the right people. That said RFactor has solid AI which will give you a good challenge on most tracks. The subscription (for RF2) is $12 a year or you can just get the lifetime sub (can't remember how much) and you do get a lot for your money. That said, if you let the sub run out single player still works.

  3. #43
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    On the tracks thing - the reason you don't see all those tracks (or even as many tracks as you used-to) is cost.

    1 - tracks have to be licensed and that often that means licensing the on-track ads/sponsorship
    2 - accurate maps (including camber and gradient and surface quality and kerbing and so on) don't exist for all tracks and are v.costly to make (and are often exclusive to certain games)
    3 - trackside details/pits/bridges etc. aren't cheap or easy to model either

    As for cars - asking for '100s' of cars is similarly unrealistic - only the GTs and Forzas have that sort of budget. Most sims ship with a handful and offer a few more via addons or mods - the quality WILL vary quite a bit ;0

    Lastly, single-player-sim racing is an odd idea because AI is a consistent weakspot even in the big budget arcade games. The more realistic you make the cars - the more obvious crappy AI becomes. If you want a 'realistic' driving experience you really have to do it with real people.

    Summary - the game you want not only doesn't exist - but probably couldn't exist! What you need to do is find the one which is the best compromise and be happy about that.

    It's a mistake to look at the "next big thing" and assume it's your ideal tho - because it's almost certainly won't be ;0

  4. #44
    Secondary Hivemind Nexus Zephro's Avatar
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    GT Legends had the good majority of those tracks and around 30 cars, it was 100 cars not 100s and 30 is really fine.Totally happy with that much. It's variety of cars that's important. GTR2s problem was a lack of variety of cars.

    Also GT(x) and Forza have mammoth budgets but still fail to have most of those tracks, so it's not money. If SimBin used to be able to afford to fit most of them in then it's fine.

    Well fine I'm odd for wanting to play single player games. :-S

    EDIT: Also if Project Cars has a career mode, that's most of what I want done. So... it's definitely totally unrealistic.
    Last edited by Zephro; 17-04-2014 at 04:59 PM.

  5. #45
    Secondary Hivemind Nexus Faldrath's Avatar
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    If you have Race 07, google "Weissbierbude" and download it - it'll give you hundreds of fan-made cars and tracks for free. Heck, there's even Targa Florio!

  6. #46
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    SimBin's games come from the days when developers often included tracks with 'similar names' or even the real names because people were only looking for a track which 'most went the same way around' as a real track and they were easy to make.

    That's not really good enough anymore - people are looking for more detail and that means proper licenses etc. - thus we see less variety because the effort in scanning a whole track and licensing it properly is immense.

    GT is and has always been primarily a 'car showroom' - tracks have always been secondary there. I don't get the hate for Forza's tracks tho, I think they're functional (and 4 includes the TG Test Track which cheers most people up - and yes it has the Kia Cee'D of that period too) and I got a lot of fun out of Forza 3, more than I've gotten from any GT other than perhaps 2

    The thing with sim racers is that you play the one other people play tho - no point in having the 'best' sim if no-one else plays it - and so the communities gather around the biggest hitters and you just have to put-up with their limitations and costs of that one. A mate has sim-raced for decades - spends a lot of money - still plays more Nascar than anything else because that's where his mates play.

    Meanwhile - realising that GSC is based-on rFactor and that I'd not tried rFactor2 I just threw the demo onto my PC and it was pretty horrid. The track loading time is ridiculous (about 90 seconds) - it took me eons to get the pad setup (GSC did it for me pretty much perfectly) and the handling feels a bit weird/nowhere near as nice as GSC's (tho you only get 1 car/track, the Civic/Silverstone, in the demo so there's not a lot to go on).

    It felt like a SimBin game and that's not a compliment from me tho - wheras I enjoyed GSX enough to consider buying it!

    So I'm now downloading Formula Trucks for lolz ;0

  7. #47
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    p.s. aha! while I was setting-up rFactor2 I inadvertantly chose 'software' instead of 'GPU' vsync - which screwed-up the framesync and input rather lot (and gave me a bit of a headache)

    Changing that improves the game quite a bit - tho the loading time remains faintly comedic, it doesn't encourage changing tracks much!

    p.p.s. talking to a mate, I'm reminded he's a "buys everything iRacing release automatically' guy but he refuses to say what he's spent. It's about £6/8 per car/track isn't it (on top of £30 upfront and a monthly fee to play??)

    It must be good or...?
    Last edited by trjp; 17-04-2014 at 08:41 PM.

  8. #48
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    Quote Originally Posted by trjp View Post
    It must be good or...?
    You get a base package with your subscription, a few road cars and 1(?) stock car. You also get a handful of tracks thrown in.
    To compete at the lowest levels (Mazda MX5, Spec Racer Ford, Street Stock) you don't need to purchase any additional, your subscription covers that.

    As your licence level increases if you want to move on to faster cars / series then you're going to need to pay for more content. each 13 weeks season has roughly on average 7-8 paid for tracks and obviously you need to purchase the car.

    The handling is very good with their latest Tyre Model. Cars behave and handle pretty much as expected, it's a big improvement on where it was a year ago! The content is usually at a very high quality, tracks are laser scanned and environments look fantastic.

    As for the racing, it offers the most competitive online racing available. In the rookie tiers (if you make it through turn 1) there's always someone around the same pace as you to race. When you start in the rookie series you're going to get into accidents either your fault or not but as you progress you'll be placed in higher splits with "safer" drivers.

    Eh, I enjoy it enough to subscribe and race frequently.

    TL;DR

    Pro's
    Competitive racing
    Rookie content included in subscription
    Frequent Races(Hourly for popular series, every 2 hours for most others)
    Good tyre model.

    Con's
    Additional content is expensive if you want to race in lots of series.
    No AI
    Some assholes in low split rookie series.

  9. #49
    Secondary Hivemind Nexus Tritagonist's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Zephro View Post
    Also my ideal track listing:

    *cut*

    It is largely a list of F1 tracks I half remember ¬_¬
    The question of tracks is an interesting one. Having spent quite a sizeable amount of my gaming time on racing games, I've come to a point where a list like yours makes me cringe whereas it would have filled me with excitement, say, five years ago. I stil like the tracks well enough, but these days I'd much rather have a well constructed fictional track than the 10th supposedly picture perfect, laser/GPS scanned version of Monza or Spa-Francorchamps. It's another reason I can still get fun out of a game like Live for Speed, which has some great fictional tracks. I'm especially fond of the Fern Bay tracks in that game.
    "He has anointed me to bring good news to the poor. He has sent me to proclaim release to
    the captives and recovery of sight to the blind, to let the oppressed go free". ~
    Luke 4:18

  10. #50
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    I sort-of agree - it's nice to have some licensed content but I'm fine with fictional tracks too - hell, half the time I'm not sure if the track I'm on is fictional or not, I just learn it and race it.

    Ideally, the cars will suit the tracks - no point giving me long F1 tracks and an MX-5 or a twisty test-track and 1200bhp/tonne.

    I just tried Formula Truck - man that's a fun game. A bit limited, the trucks seem quite similar (the biggest diff seems to be the amount of road you can see past the wheel!!) but they're fun to drive and funner to race ;0

    I take it you are supposed to use that ridiculous amount of oomph to pull them out of every corner, yeah? It's hard not to ;0

  11. #51
    Secondary Hivemind Nexus Tritagonist's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by trjp View Post
    I sort-of agree - it's nice to have some licensed content but I'm fine with fictional tracks too - hell, half the time I'm not sure if the track I'm on is fictional or not, I just learn it and race it.
    Gran Turismo games have a decent mix, and learning the tracks is actually quite fun. On the 40th iteration of tracks like Monza and Spa-Francorchamps it takes a me only a few laps to find the limits of my talent in that particular car/game combination, but that exploration of new tracks is a big part of the fun for me. It's why I liked the Singapore F1 track, or some of the American tracks that I don't recognize from series that are on TV here in Holland.

    Speaking of fictional tracks, one of my favourite games in that regard is the decidedly arcade game Dethkarz from 1998. rFactor also had a decent selection of fictional tracks, more in line with the sim-racing genre this thread is focussed on.
    Last edited by Tritagonist; 17-04-2014 at 09:54 PM.
    "He has anointed me to bring good news to the poor. He has sent me to proclaim release to
    the captives and recovery of sight to the blind, to let the oppressed go free". ~
    Luke 4:18

  12. #52
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    Quote Originally Posted by Rirdeg View Post
    You get a base package with your subscription, a few road cars and 1(?) stock car. You also get a handful of tracks thrown in.
    To compete at the lowest levels (Mazda MX5, Spec Racer Ford, Street Stock) you don't need to purchase any additional, your subscription covers that.
    Actually, the Spec Racer Ford routinely races on a mix of free and paid tracks. I have no problem with this, as you can mix in MX5 racing to ensure you have a race every week, but this season you'd have to buy seven tracks, (Watkins Glen, Mount Panorama, Road Atlanta, VIR, (used twice), Phillip Island, Brands Hatch and Road America), to complete the 12 week SRF season.

    I love the SRF, to the degree that I considered renting one now I live about an hour from Lime Rock. It was fun to start with and then the new tyre model really tidied up the rear of the car.

  13. #53
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    Hang on - have we asked the OP which wheel he bought? I think that's fairly important!?

    There is a community of people who think anything less than a G27 is a waste of money - I'm not one of them but I do wonder about the longevity of cheaper wheels (I've broken more than one set of pedals in my time!!)

  14. #54
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    Tbh my el-cheapo DFGT is fine and a lot of the top guys on iRacing use it. Squash ball down the brake pedal and you're sorted. Typically people then upgrade the pedals later to CSR elites.

    Re iRacing and cost:
    - A couple of times a year they offer $49 a year sub
    - Run 2 complete series in a season and you'll get $10 a season credit [4 seasons per year]
    - $5 credit each continuous year you run it
    - A couple of times a year they offer $100 credit for $75
    - Buy 3 items and get 10% off, buy 6 and get 20% off [at one time]
    - After 40 purchases everything's 25% off

    If you're smart and buy what you need for the season you run it's not too bad. The Skip Barber series operates a rotation where 9 tracks from one season will always carry through to the next so you'll get decent value out of them, plus certain tracks (Spa, Watkins Glen, Road America, etc) tend to appear on most schedules very frequently so you'll get good value out of them. Given what you'll end up spending on your rig, the cost isn't an issue.

  15. #55
    Secondary Hivemind Nexus Grizzly's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Tritagonist View Post
    The question of tracks is an interesting one. Having spent quite a sizeable amount of my gaming time on racing games, I've come to a point where a list like yours makes me cringe whereas it would have filled me with excitement, say, five years ago. I stil like the tracks well enough, but these days I'd much rather have a well constructed fictional track than the 10th supposedly picture perfect, laser/GPS scanned version of Monza or Spa-Francorchamps. It's another reason I can still get fun out of a game like Live for Speed, which has some great fictional tracks. I'm especially fond of the Fern Bay tracks in that game.
    Aye, it's actually the main reasonI still love the Need for Speed games, even though their handling model has never been realistic (aside from Shift 2's which made a very good effort) - every single one of those games provides fictional courses to race on. Although I do have some soft spots for some real circuits, Need for Speed 3's courses with dynamic music still surpasses them all.
    Rally games are cool too.

    That being said, I think the main problem is not the real courses persé, but rather that people try and put the same coursesin their game over and over again. Race 07 and esp. it's expansions featured a lot of courses which are relatively unknown (Which game offers Pau? Which game offers polish or ukrainian circuits? Which game features all the scandinavian circuits?) but are really really good. It's probably also a lot easier to get licensing for those circuits.
    There's also plenty of historical circuits (Spa Franchorchamps, for example, is now a full on circuit, but it is 3 times shorter then it's old version which raced trough a village and over road courses) which now have been lost trough time which can (And should) be revived.

  16. #56
    Obscure Node De_willy's Avatar
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    For me Iracing is the hands down the best sim out there. Detail on the tracks, cars, ffb etc. are great and imho the online competition is to this day unmatched. The downside is the pricing policy of the company. Also of note is the fact that Iracing offer no single player component. There is an option to race against your own ghost but there is no AI in the game.
    I would say Iracing is only an option if you plan on racing (or practice, time trial) in the sim on a regular basis.

    Asseto Corsa is also a really good sim-game. Content wise it allready offers quite a few different vehicles and tracks. There are still alot of "hot" circuits missing though. This is imho the better option if you are looking to get your occasional quick race fix.

    I also own Project Cars (project screenshot :p) but I haven't spent enough time on that sim. Haven't tried RF2 yet.

    Another sim most people haven't heard about is Game Stock Car 2012 / 2013 which is also pretty darn sweet (and mod-able).

    MXGP is also a pretty good game but you will find no fast cars there...
    Last edited by De_willy; 19-04-2014 at 12:21 PM.

  17. #57
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    And that is why you should all give RFactor 2 a go.

  18. #58
    Secondary Hivemind Nexus Tritagonist's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Grizzly View Post
    Although I do have some soft spots for some real circuits, Need for Speed 3's courses with dynamic music still surpasses them all.
    Oh yes - if NFS III through V ever show up on GOG or somesuch I'll be pre-ordering them before I have time to check the price.

    Quote Originally Posted by Grizzly View Post
    That being said, I think the main problem is not the real courses persé, but rather that people try and put the same coursesin their game over and over again. Race 07 and esp. it's expansions featured a lot of courses which are relatively unknown (Which game offers Pau? Which game offers polish or ukrainian circuits? Which game features all the scandinavian circuits?) but are really really good. It's probably also a lot easier to get licensing for those circuits.
    This is a good point, and it is indeed rather puzzling. It seems to be a bit more common these days to look to North America for tracks as well, perhaps thanks in some way to iRacing, but the main selection in most games still smells of F1. Simbin at least had a somewhat wider range due to licensing various national championships.

    You'd think tracks that don't often get featured in games would be happy to give developers permission to recreate their facilities for some extra exposure, but perhaps the vocal minority of clowns shouting 'NO NURBURGRING NO BUY' on the various Steam forums are playing a part in scaring developers into making a more traditional selection.
    "He has anointed me to bring good news to the poor. He has sent me to proclaim release to
    the captives and recovery of sight to the blind, to let the oppressed go free". ~
    Luke 4:18

  19. #59
    Secondary Hivemind Nexus Grizzly's Avatar
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    Oh, and there's this whole slew of tracks that are used for MotoGP racing which would also be awesome too. Zandvoort is great fun in Race 07, but I would love to see Assen TT included one day.

  20. #60
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    I think there is a Assen TT track for Race07 actually. I think I saw it on nogrip racing website, although its been a while since I scourged the archives there.
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