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Thread: The Great Cull

  1. #41
    Activated Node Jakkar's Avatar
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    Don't cull me! I still love you!

  2. #42
    Lesser Hivemind Node BasicPauly's Avatar
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    Yeah I think its a good idea, but that we should keep the post to a general "let us know if you see somebody with RPS tags being an absolute arse". Theres really no need to bring other outfits into it if we are just using it as a method to gauge behaviour.

    Note, that if somebody says "x was teabagging y", that I do not accept that as bad enough behaviour for a kick :P.
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  3. #43
    Secondary Hivemind Nexus bonkers's Avatar
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    I teabagged Daddy once during the glorious lolpod days. I have no regrets!
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  4. #44
    Network Hub TWChristine's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Jakkar View Post
    Don't cull me! I still love you!
    I was going to say something similar! I know lately (past month probably?) I've just been popping on to get my certs, but I still mean to pop around. Anyway, I haven't been fully up on all that's been going on, but I'm curious what exactly brought this up as an issue? I admit one of the first things I did when I joined was look at the roster and when I saw stuff like year+ since someone had logged on there was a nitpicky part of me that was like MUST REMOVE FROM ROSTER! But then having seen some people say in other threads how the purpose was for RPS users/readers as a whole I started wondering what really is the point for a cull? From what I can tell it seems like it has something to do with unit stats, which personally doesn't matter to me (just look at my own), but to each their own. I guess I just don't really understand what the goal is for this?

  5. #45
    Lesser Hivemind Node LaKroy's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by TWChristine View Post
    But then having seen some people say in other threads how the purpose was for RPS users/readers as a whole I started wondering what really is the point for a cull? From what I can tell it seems like it has something to do with unit stats, which personally doesn't matter to me (just look at my own), but to each their own. I guess I just don't really understand what the goal is for this?
    Kill/death ratios, scores per hour or certification levels (stats) do not matter to me and it does not matter for the outfit in its current form. However, there are two main reasons for considering a culling:

    1) RPS is seen as a so-called zergfit due to its large member count with many low BR and inactive players. A zergfit is a disorganised outfit that invites anyone and everyone at random and provides a poor gameplay experience for both outfit members and the rest of the faction. A culling could marginally improve the reputation of RPS.

    2) SOE plans to implement an outfit recruitment system in-game (which is already one year late). It is going to include an outfit rating system, presumably based on stats such as member count, member activity, average BR etc. A high rating is likely to give RPS more exposure through this channel. Our main purpose is to provide an opportunity for Rock Paper Shotgun readers to play Planetside 2. Nevertheless, many non-readers may find RPS to be the perfect outfit for them, myself included. It is therefore of relevance to be visible for these players.

  6. #46
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    Not pitching this on either side of the argument, I'm genuinely curious; have we had any concrete problems caused by our reputation? Things beyond idle yells and reddit comments?

    TVA allies being unwilling to work with us / wanting to keep us in less frontline roles are the things I can immediately think of that would directly affect our play as an outfit. I get the impression we're still held in at least reasonable standing though, despite our recent spell of relative inactivity?

  7. #47
    Lesser Hivemind Node BasicPauly's Avatar
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    I realise some people might care about our overall reputation as a Zerg outfit etc, but why do we really care that we are seen as an open to all outfit?

    Sure you might not want to be seen as a zergfit, but I think it's good that we are seen as an open to anyone and everyone outfit.

    I personally see no issue with being considered a zergfit, and you could are that a Zerg is still equally as fun as organised play. It's entirely based on opinion, but I've had just as much fun running around with a mass army as I have playing in organised groups.

    there have in fact been occasions where I've preferred the Zerg simply because you get more done and get a feeling of being part of something big rather than part of a select few.

    its worth pointing out that even some of the more organised and tight outfits have had problems.. They aren't all perfect.

    sure organisation is much more effective and might be closer to what people want from the game on a whole, but I don't think it's fair to say that zeroing is an shy less valid, fun or reputable experience.

    honestly I think it is the fault of the outfits in question that they have this stigma towards certain methods of play.

    as far as I'm concerned, we play how we want and damn them if they think less of us for it, that's their issue.

    Ultimately, we have had no problem getting people to play with us and have fun on numerous occasions despite this, and we all know that we don't really fun Zerg yep ops, so as long as we make his clear, it shouldn't matter how our stats show us... Clearly they can be misleading.


    ive never cared about stats, nor how we are viewed by others. Fair enough if the communities opinion matters, but if people are so narrow minded to shun one particular outfit based on what stats might say, then I would argue that those particular outfits aren't worth being associated with.

    I'm all for a cull of players who never played past their first day I,e,br 1st, but anything past that is unnecessary in my view at this point in time.

    Internally we know we are a nice bunch of guys, so as long as we stay on top of this and keep the Nasty people out, that's all that matters. Self pride trumps outsider opinion
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  8. #48
    Secondary Hivemind Nexus Dominicus's Avatar
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    Isn't it kinda funny that one of the arguments against is the idea that it is too much work, while people vollunteer to do the work. I have to say, must be a very though job doing nothing :P

    Also, just cull them all and let Vanu judge the wearthy from the unwearthy. Seems to me that is how a proper religious science club should sound :P
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  9. #49
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    Quote Originally Posted by Dominicus View Post
    Also, just cull them all and let Vanu judge the wearthy from the unwearthy. Seems to me that is how a proper religious science club should sound :P
    Yes Dom, we all know that you think hunting down enough Giraffes solves anything.

  10. #50
    Lesser Hivemind Node NickWhite's Avatar
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    For me persoanlly, it's definitely more about how our reputation effects our Outfits longevity and much less about reputation via play style or stats. We improve our reputation, we improve our recruitment and membership, we improve our longevity as an Outfit, we improve our outfit community and enhance the Miller community. It's a process that does have a benefit and a point but there's a lot more detail behind the proposed change and the reasons why.

    As mentioned before, one of the main factors i'd like to emphasise behind the For side of the debate on culling our members is purely and fundamentally focused on a legacy system. Our reputation will effect our longevity in-game, and that reputation is created in one way, how we are perceived, or allow ourselves to be perceived, by others on Miller.

    To develop on that, if you are a free agent and are looking for an organisation to join, you will most likely first look for the most reputable, because you want to look for the best opportunity or match for yourself. You then look for valid opinions on these search options from people within that locale or category, and then see how reputable those sources are and if they correlate. From then, most people will further develop their search to find a better match, whether that be through, qualifying for specific outfit requirements, organisation mentality and attitude, skill level, or any other aspect on that spectrum.

    Whether or not the short hand of the choice thinks it's wrong or inaccurately based on deceptive or inflated stats via something like Outfitpoints.com, or reddit and ps2 forum bashing, or even just by word of mouth though /yell and /region - ultimately make no difference. Importantly, 9 times out of 10 people will base their final decision based on initial reputation.

    Now, should the Outfit update launch and highlight these things as a negative on the outfit, (basing things on my (opinion) example above) i predict that it will have some negative effects on our in-game reputation, deteriorate our recruitment and our membership will shrink in the long term. Now, of course - we were born out of the initial hype via the RPS front page, yes. But that is long gone, and whoever remains are it's caretakers and matter most to the outfit. Between the rare front page post about a C2A's because of a BIG change to the game, and an RPS reader actively seeking our sub forum out, we have little to no incoming traffic. So i see the current proposition (a trim around the edges) as an important responsibility to help the outfit grow and improve it. There is no denying that we are here for RPS readers, we always will be, but doing nothing will effect other aspects that may soon be, or are as - if not more important.

    I agree that Zergs can be fun, and nobody is saying that there is anything wrong with us rolling with them, prime-time, off-peak, individually or as a squad. However, the game has evolved to enhance them (Lattice) and the meta (or community-level game) has since evolved into a much more complex beast. Reputation is based on in-game behavior and off-game stats.

    Zergs have, and always will be seen as negative thing. Millerites young and old have either been on the end of a frustrating steamroller or a horrible farm because you were in one, hence the negative tinge and how it can tarnish or damage reputation. By definition, we were a Zergfit. However, now we are not, which is why i think there certainly is a valid argument for a bit of reform, within this topic and context.
    Last edited by NickWhite; 08-06-2014 at 06:56 PM.
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  11. #51
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    Nick, I see lots of words, but I don't really get what point you are driving at.

    I also don't think inactive members is anything to do with people thinking we are a zergfit or not.
    It's to do with how they perceive large outfits as a whole, especially large outfits with no skill requirements.

  12. #52
    Secondary Hivemind Nexus Dominicus's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by CMaster View Post
    Yes Dom, we all know that you think hunting down enough Giraffes solves anything.
    Well a healthy herd equals a better hunt, as those left are more wearthy to hunt down. So, of course I am in favour of a cull :P. No more statpadding during hunts.
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  13. #53
    Lesser Hivemind Node NickWhite's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by CMaster View Post
    Nick, I see lots of words, but I don't really get what point you are driving at.
    Worrying. Are you following the thread?

    Quote Originally Posted by BasicPauly View Post
    but why do we really care that we are seen as an open to all outfit?
    Quote Originally Posted by TWChristine View Post
    I guess I just don't really understand what the goal is for this?
    Quote Originally Posted by Rizlar View Post
    what would it say about the outfit if we kick people for inactivity despite having no clear reason for doing so?
    Quote Originally Posted by NickWhite View Post
    My recent post containing context, reasons behind and explanation
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  14. #54
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    Quote Originally Posted by CMaster View Post
    Yes Dom, we all know that you think hunting down enough Giraffes solves anything.
    I have to say, this really doesn't feel like a constructive post. I get that you and Dom don't see head to head all the time, but let's please tone down the hostilities a bit (this of course goes for everyone).

    @Nick I think you expressed my opinions about it all pretty perfectly. Our long-term existance as an outfit will be affected by our reputation. We've done a good job of getting a good reputation through organizing events on Miller and the like, but the better reputation we have, the less reliant we are on these things (and they are quite work-intensive for the persons doing the organizing).
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  15. #55
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    Quote Originally Posted by Sir Hoc View Post
    I have to say, this really doesn't feel like a constructive post. I get that you and Dom don't see head to head all the time, but let's please tone down the hostilities a bit (this of course goes for everyone).
    .
    It was a friendly joke. At least intended as one, and Dom's response suggested he saw it so.

    @Nick. My point is that I still don't see a reason coming out of all of that. I get that you feel reputation is a big deal. I get that you feel that RPS has a rubbish reputation and is dying off (or at least thats the impression I get, could be misreading). I don't see quite how member count quite ties in to that. I don't get how you think we best go about improving that rep. I'm not trying to tear down your arguments here - I genuinely don't understand what point you are working towards, what you think this cull will achieve in aid of that (or which part of the cull, inactive or "uncontrolled" is relevant). All I get is that you think reputation matters, and some diversion into a discussion about zergs.

    Quote Originally Posted by Sir Hoc
    A question about why we should kick people like these (despite having no influence on the outfit) have been raised by several people. I would like to ask the counter-question. Why should we keep people who either don't play the game or don't play with the outfit at all?
    Because keeping them is the default result of inaction. So taking action should have some justification - although it needn't be that strong a one.

    I actually do have a reason for wanting to keep inactives in, although it's a minority one, and also very trivial, and shouldn't trump any genuine reasons to go the other way: I quite like being able to browse through the outfit roster on the stats sites and see the history of the outfit. I like being able to see the old members who contributed a lot, what they did well, when they stopped. I like being able to see the gluts of C2A newbies, how many of them stuck with it, and guess at what kind of night they had. I like being able to see how the outfit has changed over time looking back. I suspect I'm pretty near alone in all of that though.

    Oh, we now know something about what outfit recruitment will look like, although probably not enough to make any decisions on: https://forums.station.sony.com/ps2/...ruiting.83006/
    Last edited by CMaster; 08-06-2014 at 08:56 PM.

  16. #56
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    Quote Originally Posted by CMaster View Post
    It was a friendly joke. At least intended as one, and Dom's response suggested he saw it so.
    I figured as much, but intention isn't always easy to read in text. Still, there has been some confrontations between people on the forums the last couple of weeks so I figured it was best to make sure everything was clear. Glad it's nothing more than jokes.
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  17. #57
    Secondary Hivemind Nexus WallyTrooper's Avatar
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    This thread is looking pretty dreadful folks. I've been following it loosely and it looks a lot like people getting confused and frustrated without achieving anything. Perhaps everyone should just take a week's breather from this thread? Cull or no cull it doesn't really matter but getting forum-angry at people you like playing the game with is silly.
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  18. #58
    Lesser Hivemind Node BasicPauly's Avatar
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    Personally,I haven't perceived any real hostility... That's just me though. I view it as all valid discussion.

    both nick and master have valid points.

    i get that some of you, nick included, see reputation as important, but as with cmaster I don't think the number of inactives largely affects this. Sure stats on a whole might influence this as you may be able to tell if outfits Zerg around from stats?

    Nick you mentioned that we were a zergfit and are no more. I would argue that whilst we aren't solely a zergfit, we still have it in us, and from time to time probably do a big of that... Especially in silly events.

    I personally like that we are a large outfit open to anybody and everybody, and while forum membership would be a good idea, I don't agree with making it a members only club with regulations like many others probably do.

    i also appreciate you guys continued use of other channels to cooperate with TVA and reddit people, however this is not important to me at all, and doesn't impact my enjoyment of the game.

    I only ever play/have played this game to play it with friends, and with this awesome community, and so While I don't mean this negatively, I couldn't give a shit about other outfits.

    i understand how cooperation with others expands miller and the general community, but I don't think we should ever put this before our outfit. Conforming to others views isn't the right method in my view.

    I'll say it again, I've no problem dropping br1s as they clearly don't play, however I see no benefit big enough to justify a larger cull at this juncture. I see no problems arising from this at all as it shouldn't affect any of our core people. Even new players should have surpassed br 1 within 2 days of play with us.


    i can honestly say that outfit reputation had/has no impact on how I judge an outfit to join.. I, like many, base it more on experience and people. Sure, lots of people might judge us this way, but if they do, why do we particularly care?

    the 'nice' outfits on miller already know us and know we play well, so at this point we should look for other means of recruitment rather than ways to make us appear better.

    again, I'm not being a negative chap here, just trying to be honest

    its only my opinion after all.
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  19. #59
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    I'm not sure that I do have any points, really. It's just that some people seem to be very passionate about removing people from the outfit, or at least treating it with some urgency and I don't understand why.

    Terms like zergfit are always difficult as they mean different things to different people. To some, including me, a zergfit is an outfit that just is post of the zerg, a tag that uncoordinated people wear. To others, it's a group like kotv who simply throw large numbers at a single target regardless of anything else. RPS has never been either of those. (Never had the numbers for the second anyway). To others though, a zergfit is a group who use superior numbers to compensate for having lutes than stellar payers, and we've always been that.

  20. #60
    Lesser Hivemind Node BasicPauly's Avatar
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    I was referring more to your point about "I dont see how member count ties in to reputation", but fair enough.
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