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  1. #41
    Secondary Hivemind Nexus Rii's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Giaddon View Post
    "Space marine" is a label used for generic action heroes, not military people in space. When people complain about space marines, they aren't complaining about that specifically, but rather about how boring generic characters/settings are.
    In that case I would suggest finding a different term for what you're describing.

  2. #42
    Secondary Hivemind Nexus Smashbox's Avatar
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  3. #43
    Secondary Hivemind Nexus Nalano's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Smashbox View Post
    Oh, TVTropes, where would we be without you?
    Nalano H. Wildmoon
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    "His lack of education is more than compensated for by his keenly developed moral bankruptcy." - Woody Allen

  4. #44
    Secondary Hivemind Nexus Berzee's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Kollega View Post
    That is because, as i've said, those are not my arguments.
    :P
    lol, well said :D

  5. #45
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    Quote Originally Posted by UnravThreads View Post
    Did you just refer to Space Marine as an FPS?
    Yes, because there's very little difference in gameplay between third-person cover-based shooters and FPSs so I lump them in one place in my brain (the "not interested" place). I don't think it distracted from my point though.

  6. #46
    Secondary Hivemind Nexus Nalano's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by deano2099 View Post
    Yes, because there's very little difference in gameplay between third-person cover-based shooters and FPSs so I lump them in one place in my brain (the "not interested" place). I don't think it distracted from my point though.
    Space Marine isn't a third-person cover-based shooter. Space Marine is a beat-'em-up.
    Nalano H. Wildmoon
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  7. #47
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    Quote Originally Posted by Rii View Post
    In that case I would suggest finding a different term for what you're describing.
    Why? It's such a nice video game term (I assume it comes from Doom).

  8. #48
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    Quote Originally Posted by nalano View Post
    space marine isn't a third-person cover-based shooter. Space marine is a beat-'em-up.
    The Emprah has been kidnapped by cultists. Are you a bad enough dude to rescue the Emprah?!

    Quote Originally Posted by Smashbox View Post
    And here, ladies and gentlemen, is another thing that we should really wail and rail against. Why does every action hero need to look and behave like John McClane, of all people? I can recall at least two protagonist archetypes from the older and indie games that are rather memorable: shorties in vividly-coloured impressionist worlds (Braid, Bastion) and a whole bunch of anthropomorphic fauna, some of it wielding badass space guns (any platform game from the late 1990s and early 2000s). Sure, the latter had the days when they overfilled the market - but i'd still take them rather than white Anglo-Saxon protestants with short brown hair wielding downsized weaponry and trying to rescue their loved ones from some nebulous threat.
    Last edited by Kollega; 20-09-2011 at 07:33 AM.

  9. #49
    Secondary Hivemind Nexus Althea's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by deano2099 View Post
    Yes, because there's very little difference in gameplay between third-person cover-based shooters and FPSs so I lump them in one place in my brain (the "not interested" place). I don't think it distracted from my point though.
    FPS = First Person Shooter. Space Marine is third person. And you can't have played many FPS' if you think they're the same as or similar to TPCBS games. Both have you running around shooting shit, yeah, but the tactics and play-styles are different. TBCBS tend to be much more unforgiving towards you running around like an utter twit.

    Quote Originally Posted by Nalano View Post
    Nonsense. If anything, it was Mass Blue 2: The Bluening.
    There was also a lot of orange. I don't mind the blue, but the orange gets my goat. Mass Effect 3 looks even more orange.


  10. #50
    Activated Node Krans's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by deano2099 View Post
    Yes, because there's very little difference in gameplay between third-person cover-based shooters and FPSs so I lump them in one place in my brain (the "not interested" place). I don't think it distracted from my point though.
    Um, Space Marine doesn't just have no cover system at all, but it provides incentives to avoid cover and engage closely with the enemy.

  11. #51
    Secondary Hivemind Nexus coldvvvave's Avatar
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    Why people hate first Gears of War? Just because of it's community? Because it brought cover mechanics into mainstream? Because it was grey? I thought it was a pretty good game with good gameplay, good graphics, some atmospheric touches and amusing characters. And whats wrong with them being all buff, they are supersoldiers, right?
    Last edited by coldvvvave; 20-09-2011 at 08:24 AM.

  12. #52
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    Quote Originally Posted by coldvvvave View Post
    Why people hate first Gears of War? Just because of it's community? Because it brought cover mechanics into mainstream? Because it was grey? I thought it was a pretty good game with good gameplay, good graphics, some atmospheric touches and amusing characters. And whats wrong with them being all buff, they are supersoldiers, right?
    Yeah, i also wonder about that. I've only played the first Gears, but the firefights were meaty and satisfying, chainsawing Locust in the face never got truly old, and the brown greyness or roid-raging protagonists didn't really distract all that much. Sure, it was a cliched game, but rather well-executed.

  13. #53
    Secondary Hivemind Nexus Rii's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Giaddon View Post
    Why? It's such a nice video game term (I assume it comes from Doom).
    Well I can't speak for the majority perception, maybe you're right, but when I hear 'space marine' I think of stuff like Starship Troopers, The Forever War, The Mote in God's Eye, Aliens, Avatar, Halo and Gears of War ... I don't see it as the catch-all term that you're suggesting and I'm not sure others do either. I would hesitate in describing Mass Effect as a 'space marine' game only because from what I've seen it doesn't appear as though Shepherd's actions occur in a military context, not because s/he's (apparently) an interesting character. Seems to me the best way to avoid confusion is to use a different term for Generic Action Heroes ... like Generic Action Hero. :P

    Quote Originally Posted by coldvvvave View Post
    Why people hate first Gears of War? Just because of it's community? Because it brought cover mechanics into mainstream? Because it was grey? I thought it was a pretty good game with good gameplay, good graphics, some atmospheric touches and amusing characters. And whats wrong with them being all buff, they are supersoldiers, right?
    Because it was Xbox 360's first blockbuster game and marked Epic's betrayal of its PC roots. So, pretty much the Halo of its generation.
    Last edited by Rii; 20-09-2011 at 10:41 AM.

  14. #54
    Secondary Hivemind Nexus Althea's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Rii View Post
    Because it was Xbox 360's first blockbuster game and marked Epic's betrayal of its PC roots. So, pretty much the Halo of its generation.
    I dunno, the PC port wasn't too bad except for the fact it took half a year to install. Surely, though, it's the fault of Microsoft Gaming Wankers rather than Epic? Epic were just the dev, MGS the publishers.


  15. #55
    Secondary Hivemind Nexus Heliocentric's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by coldvvvave View Post
    Why people hate first Gears of War?
    Crap weapon balance, no dedicated servers, series stopped supporting pc meaning you cant invest in SP and population will inevitable dwindle.

    If they brought out gears of war 3, sorted the weapon balance and the dedicated server I'd snap it up.

  16. #56
    Network Hub gundrea's Avatar
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    Could Adam Jensen qualify for space marine? He is a generic action hero and goes briefly to space.
    "A victory so bitter it would be better we had not won," --General Transh

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  17. #57
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    Quote Originally Posted by UnravThreads View Post
    FPS = First Person Shooter. Space Marine is third person.
    Oh thanks for that, I was actually unaware what FPS stood for. Clearly I was wrong and you managed to point it out, so you win an internet point! When you get 200 you can trade them in for a pencil sharpener.

    I used it as short-hand for shooter. Yes there's a distinction but it's such a tiny one that it barely matters. The differences between games at either end of the RPG genre are huge, for example. But fine, let's call it a TPS then.

    Of course when you read TPS you have to stop and think slightly to realise what it means whereas in the context of what I was saying FPS puts the point across fine, but hell why not argue about the minutiae of definitions on the internet.

    Or put another way: find me one guy that is annoyed Syndicate is being re-made as an FPS but would be fine with it being made in to a TPS.

  18. #58
    There is usually a pretty big difference. Or at least enough that you can't really give them the same name. Third person shooters allow you to easily implement melee combat and cover mechanics for one. In real life you have a good idea of where all your limbs are without looking, in a FPS you don't, so the few first person games that do include melee combat that isn't just click to stab do it differently to TPS. For instance, Space Marine's melee combat wouldn't work at all in first person. The only FPS that has a cover system that I've played is Red Orchestra 2 and that feels incredibly awkward, because it restricts your movement in a way that doesn't feel right when you have no feel of where your body is. Whereas things like Mass Effect or GOW feel perfectly fine when you're in cover because you can see every part of your body. Also, slghtly linked to melee combat, movement can be more elaborate in TPS, like the rolls in GOW or Space Marine.

    On the other hand, first person shooters have the advantage that you don't have your character taking up a large portion of your screen so you can aim a lot easier and quicker, and are also arguably more immersive because the view is the same as you have in real life.

  19. #59
    Secondary Hivemind Nexus Althea's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by deano2099 View Post
    I used it as short-hand for shooter. Yes there's a distinction but it's such a tiny one that it barely matters. The differences between games at either end of the RPG genre are huge, for example.
    RPG is a big, big, big term, just as strategy is. Civilization V is a turn-based strategy based around, generally, conquering everyone else, and as such is different to Anno 1404 which is a real-time game based more around economics and trade. Both are strategy games, but that is where the similarity ends. FPS is not a big, big, term. It's a specific one used for a certain gameplay feature, i.e. a shooter with a first person perspective, just as TBS is a specific term relating to turn-based strategy gameplay. There might be lots of first person shooters around, but it doesn't mean it works as a catch-all term for shooters, because it only applies to a certain kind.


  20. #60
    Secondary Hivemind Nexus Smashbox's Avatar
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    Anyway...

    Quote Originally Posted by Kollega View Post
    And here, ladies and gentlemen, is another thing that we should really wail and rail against. Why does every action hero need to look and behave like John McClane, of all people?
    I agree to a certain extent, but at least I find John McClane (if not his progeny) likable. The real problem in game character design is epitomized here (in a non-PC game):



    It just reeks of focus testing, in my opnion.

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