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  1. #201
    Secondary Hivemind Nexus President Weasel's Avatar
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    They're slow for elves. High Elves and humans are faster, let alone the fast elves.

  2. #202
    Secondary Hivemind Nexus Vexing Vision's Avatar
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    I do have a thing for Wood Elves, as Screwie can probably attest to. Wardancers are by far the most powerful and fun players of all teams, and they're the only elf team with access to a Big Guy (while Trees are usually rather stationary) which is great for an initial defensive cage and clearing the LoS.

    Dark Elves are one of the easier teams to play - once you got some skills on them.

    Also, I like the Assassin, but it is admittedly pretty useless as you don't get SPP for successful stabs.
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  3. #203
    Secondary Hivemind Nexus duff's Avatar
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    I'm with Screwie, I think delves are underrated. They are definitely not slow with access to upto 8 MA7 players (not that I'd advise taking that many). They have the best mobile running game of all the teams. Then if you stick accurate on a runner you have a thrower thats better than all the other non-elf teams. Granted, not as quick to score as welfs / helfs / skaven but not far off. What you give up in offensive capabilities you make up for in defense: blodge access on every player, AV 8 on most players, no ST2 slackers and a witch elfs for precision strikes.

  4. #204
    Secondary Hivemind Nexus Screwie's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by President Weasel View Post
    They're slow for elves. High Elves and humans are faster, let alone the fast elves.
    Dark Elf teams feature up to eight MA 7 players. High Elf teams can have four guys with MA 8 and two MA 7. I admit it's debatable but to my perception Dark Elves feel the faster side.

    A drive also requires durability. Although a cage of either team's players would have similar AV, the Dark Elves have more Block and Dodge (and Dump-Off) to play with and that makes them that much harder to stop.

    Quote Originally Posted by Vexing Vision View Post
    I do have a thing for Wood Elves, as Screwie can probably attest to. Wardancers are by far the most powerful and fun players of all teams, and they're the only elf team with access to a Big Guy (while Trees are usually rather stationary) which is great for an initial defensive cage and clearing the LoS.

    Dark Elves are one of the easier teams to play - once you got some skills on them.

    Also, I like the Assassin, but it is admittedly pretty useless as you don't get SPP for successful stabs.
    Wardancers are truly amazing. I'm not sold on treemen though, and WE teams generally have to spend their cash on more important things elsewhere (personally I definitely wouldn't buy a tree over a second thrower, wardancer or a third catcher or TRR).

    If the assassin had MA 7 his shadowing would be that teeny bit better and I'd find more use for him. That's my main problem with him... His role is clearly that of an anti-catcher/anti-runner but he can't stick to any of them. Although Horkon Heartripper can be a monster against the right team.
    Last edited by Screwie; 14-10-2011 at 02:08 PM.

  5. #205
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    Quote Originally Posted by President Weasel View Post
    That said, humans are a bit meh. They're supposed to be a jack of all trades team, but the second half of the expression is "masters of none". If you want to play humans, get orcs instead. But I'd say try skaven and see what you think.
    Pshaw. Humans are great one you get over their starting issue.

    Their starting issue is that whilst technically they are the bashiest agility team and the most agile bash team what that actually resolves into is that they are the least agile agility team and the weakest bash team. However, some Guard here and some stat ups there and suddenly, at lowish-to-mid team values, they really shine. They have an answer to every problem where as Orcs are stuck with the running game unless they go with highly unreliable goblin tossing jank. If Orcs come up against a bashier side than them they are in trouble, if Humans come up against a bashier side then they can play like an agility team. The movement of 8 on the Human Catcher makes a big difference when facing bash sides on offence and on defence against agility sides.

    Skaven are certainly the closest team to Humans starting out but with a big step away from the bash line and a big step to the finesse line.

  6. #206
    Secondary Hivemind Nexus President Weasel's Avatar
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    You're not wrong, Al, although orcs can finesse round bashy teams as long as you can build a half decent thrower like the one on my Open team. (Half-decent thrower, inept coach, that's their problem). I do like vanilla humans better than Norse or Amazons, though.
    The goblin throwing thing is extremely chancy, although there are tricks like throwing the guy without the ball, then running up and handing it to him if he lands without dying. A poor landing is only a turnover if he's carrying the ball.

    As for Dark Elves, four guys with MA8 feels faster to me than 6 guys with MA7. Your team is in scoring range one square further away, and that's 4 players the opponent needs to cover.
    I played as Dark Elves for several seasons in the Divisions and never really achieved much, and one of the things I found most frustrating was that I didn't have the speed to outpace my opponents, or the combination of strength, armour, and guard access to really stand toe to toe with them. High Elves having that little bit of extra move caught me out more than once. Humans have faster players than Dark Elves, too.
    Oh, yeah, and their specialist players are pretty pants. 4 Blitzers - good. 2 Witch Elves, quite good. (Given the choice I would never take jump up instead of block, plus they have lower AV). Runners - pants. They're called runners because they're no good at throwing or catching. Dumpoff is not a very good skill and given the choice I'd swap it for catch, or nerves of steel, or throw, or safe throw and make the guy a catcher or a thrower. Or swapping it for block or dodge would make him better at the running game.
    As for the assassin - stab doesn't work reliably on bashy teams, and you need to be next to them to use it (with your low AV). Shadowing doesn't work reliably on exactly the players you want to shadow. They're a waste of money.

    Your results may vary (after all, they're AV8 and AG4 - they should be able to pull off some nice plays, and survive long enough to develop).
    Last edited by President Weasel; 14-10-2011 at 03:54 PM.

  7. #207
    Secondary Hivemind Nexus duff's Avatar
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    PW - I think it might just be down to personal playstyle. I definitely don't think that the runners are crap, dump-off can be an incredibly useful skill, especially for suckering other teams into a hole. But then again I've never been a "blitz a hole, run some catchers through it and score next turn" kind of player. The main teams I've played have been lizzies, orcs and delfs so I guess I just prefer or am accustomed to a running playstyle.
    Last edited by duff; 14-10-2011 at 04:30 PM.

  8. #208
    Secondary Hivemind Nexus President Weasel's Avatar
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    It may well be a play style thing. I can make wood elves work. I can make pro elves work (until they inevitably die) although I don't enjoy trying to defend using them. I can make skaven work very well indeed (apart from the inevitable matches when too many of them get injured too soon, and there's not much you can do to dig yourself out of the hole).
    On the other end of the spectrum I can do a pretty decent impression of a solid running game with chaos. I just can't warm to the Dark Elves, and I can't agree that a skill that is only really useful when you've carried the ball into blitzing range and invited someone to hit you is a good use of team value. Block and dodge are skills that are just as useful on a ball carrier, and are a lot less situational - dump off needs nerves of steel to really shine, and for the price of two skills you could have a runner with blodge and just not let the ball go, then dodge to safety next turn and score.
    Also, slow.

  9. #209
    Secondary Hivemind Nexus duff's Avatar
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    But high elves look stooooooopid.

  10. #210
    Secondary Hivemind Nexus Vexing Vision's Avatar
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    I love Wood Elves. I like Dark Elves. I enjoy Skaven a lot. But for the live of me, I can't play Pro or High Elves. Despite having all the elfy-skills I like, they just don't work for me and I still haven't found out why.

    It's probably a perceived-playstyle thing.
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  11. #211
    Secondary Hivemind Nexus President Weasel's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by duff View Post
    But high elves look stooooooopid.
    This is a very valid point.

  12. #212
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    Quote Originally Posted by President Weasel View Post
    As for Dark Elves, four guys with MA8 feels faster to me than 6 guys with MA7.
    That's because it is. For me a team is defined by it's top speed. As you say it's all about defining where the red zone is. That's why I've passed up +MA on my Human Blitzers but took it on my Catcher like a shot. Having a Move 8 Blitzer doesn't make my team any faster (although I can't deny it would have utility on defence) but a Move 9 Catcher means that I've got a TD threat 11 squares from the endzone. The bigger the speed differntial between you and the opposition on attack the more you force your opponent to make the deicion between crowding the ball carrier and defending deep to stop the break away. A classic mistake people make against Humans is they see Lineman and Throwers as move 6 and think they can safely crowd the ball carrier only to see the Catcher plus a Blitzer head across the other side of the now open pitch. Even against palyers who do defend deep against me I'll often do 3 or 4 turns of switching from side to side until I've pulled the opposition defence thin in one sector and then punch through the gap.

  13. #213
    Secondary Hivemind Nexus duff's Avatar
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    Lol I was looking for some tactics on a witch elf build (mainly wrestle or block, the value of dauntless, and whether its worth taking juggernaught on doubles) and came across this: http://bloodbowldigital.com/forum/in...rb_v=viewtopic

    "-In addition to the fixes above, the skirt version has the skirt be shorter. Additionally it repairs some clipping issues.
    -The no skirt version removes the skirt completely."

  14. #214
    Secondary Hivemind Nexus LowKey's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by duff View Post
    -The no skirt version removes the skirt completely."
    FINALLY

    on a related note... if anyone fancies a game tonight let me know, going to add tv1000 skaven to give them a go before switching in the DoD to make sure its not an insane idea

  15. #215
    Secondary Hivemind Nexus duff's Avatar
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    If my mate doesnt show up to play some bf I have a 1000tv chaos team.

  16. #216
    Secondary Hivemind Nexus President Weasel's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by duff View Post
    If my mate doesnt show up to play some bf I have a 1000tv chaos team.
    I have accepted your chaos team, for I am super efficient.

  17. #217
    Secondary Hivemind Nexus duff's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by President Weasel View Post
    I have accepted your chaos team, for I am super efficient.
    Only took you 24 hours!

  18. #218
    Obscure Node Rawwar's Avatar
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    I have a Skaven team waiting to be accepted too.

    Tonight was a bit of a none starter for me. I might be able to get a game in on Sunday as I'm off out exploring the wilds of Hungary tomorrow.

    I might be looking after F1's been on or during if I'm bored.

    If someone wants to give me some advice while rubbing my face in the dirt it would be appreciated. The advice that is...

    Enjoyed the discussion and all the opinions on here earlier. I'm struggling a bit with the Dark Elfs to be fair but I like them. Having said that, Skaven are my second favourite GW race after Orcs and it's a very close 2nd at that, like a gnat's whisker.

  19. #219
    Secondary Hivemind Nexus Screwie's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by duff View Post
    Lol I was looking for some tactics on a witch elf build (mainly wrestle or block, the value of dauntless, and whether its worth taking juggernaught on doubles) and came across this: http://bloodbowldigital.com/forum/in...rb_v=viewtopic

    "-In addition to the fixes above, the skirt version has the skirt be shorter. Additionally it repairs some clipping issues.
    -The no skirt version removes the skirt completely."
    The Witch Elf model/texture fixes are rather nice. But more importantly, elsewhere in that forum there is this magnificent mod:

    Move the End of Turn button to the left of the screen! Sweet!

  20. #220
    Obscure Node Rawwar's Avatar
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    In League Now

    I'm in the league now if someone fancies a kick about.

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