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  1. #41
    Lesser Hivemind Node TheDreamlord's Avatar
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    Helio, E:D is not the game you are describing. There are no squad mates. It's like repremanding Wolfenstein for not having resource management. Different games altogether.

    Quantacat, I am not sure where and how you are drawing this argument about development. Both games have shown us gameplay, since a big part of the gameplay is handling the ship and fighting. E:D is rock solid there, with an engine built from the ground up and fully under their control.

    You are correct in your last statement about proper software development, however you are wrong about which of the two projects is led solidly and is constructing the core before the fluff.

  2. #42
    Moderator QuantaCat's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by TheDreamlord View Post
    Helio, E:D is not the game you are describing. There are no squad mates. It's like repremanding Wolfenstein for not having resource management. Different games altogether.

    Quantacat, I am not sure where and how you are drawing this argument about development. Both games have shown us gameplay, since a big part of the gameplay is handling the ship and fighting. E:D is rock solid there, with an engine built from the ground up and fully under their control.

    You are correct in your last statement about proper software development, however you are wrong about which of the two projects is led solidly and is constructing the core before the fluff.
    Am I wrong, though? only time will tell. Its not because you have an empty demo ready that works pretty good, that you have a grasp on the rest of the game.
    - Tom De Roeck.

    verse publications & The Shopkeeper, an interactive short.

    "Quantacat's name is still recognised even if he watches on with detached eyes like Peter Molyneux over a cube in 3D space, staring at it with tears in his eyes, softly whispering... Someday they'll get it."

  3. #43
    Lesser Hivemind Node TheDreamlord's Avatar
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    Indeed only time will tell. I voiced my opinion about E:D a number of times. I try to keep my view on these things based on facts, logic and s/w development experience (which I have 15 years of commercially). Braben has so far produced quality results mostly timely to what he has promised, has clear views of what he wants his game to be (take a look at the yaw nerf discussion) and has not diverted. Roberts on the other hand spends time and money on graphics, youtube shows and space plants. If I was a betting man, I'd bet on Braben.

  4. #44
    Moderator QuantaCat's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by TheDreamlord View Post
    Indeed only time will tell. I voiced my opinion about E:D a number of times. I try to keep my view on these things based on facts, logic and s/w development experience (which I have 15 years of commercially). Braben has so far produced quality results mostly timely to what he has promised, has clear views of what he wants his game to be (take a look at the yaw nerf discussion) and has not diverted. Roberts on the other hand spends time and money on graphics, youtube shows and space plants. If I was a betting man, I'd bet on Braben.
    Even though braben has a record for not being so good in the past? It could pan out either way, also, Software development != game development.

    In any case, yes, as I said, it could just pan out either way :D
    - Tom De Roeck.

    verse publications & The Shopkeeper, an interactive short.

    "Quantacat's name is still recognised even if he watches on with detached eyes like Peter Molyneux over a cube in 3D space, staring at it with tears in his eyes, softly whispering... Someday they'll get it."

  5. #45
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    Quote Originally Posted by QuantaCat View Post
    Again, I think Elite is going for a quick climax rather than grounded game development, where as Star Citizen hasnt really done gameplay yet but is working hard on making sure the engine doesnt fuck up.

    I think the latter is the way to go about a large project such as Elite or SC.
    Star Citizen has a budget that's something like 33 times the size of Elite? Elite has to be focused, after all Double Fine spent more money making Costume Quest. So, what's right for Elite may not be right for Star Citizen.

  6. #46
    Secondary Hivemind Nexus Heliocentric's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by TheDreamlord View Post
    Helio, E:D is not the game you are describing. There are no squad mates. It's like repremanding Wolfenstein for not having resource management. Different games altogether.
    So it's shooty wizbang kill everything in sight?
    I'm failing to writing a blog, specifically about playing games the wrong way
    http://playingitwrong.wordpress.com/

  7. #47
    Moderator QuantaCat's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Internet View Post
    Star Citizen has a budget that's something like 33 times the size of Elite? Elite has to be focused, after all Double Fine spent more money making Costume Quest. So, what's right for Elite may not be right for Star Citizen.
    Im not talking about focus, Im talking about going for a quick game rather than building up to the features planned.
    - Tom De Roeck.

    verse publications & The Shopkeeper, an interactive short.

    "Quantacat's name is still recognised even if he watches on with detached eyes like Peter Molyneux over a cube in 3D space, staring at it with tears in his eyes, softly whispering... Someday they'll get it."

  8. #48
    Lesser Hivemind Node TheDreamlord's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Heliocentric View Post
    So it's shooty wizbang kill everything in sight?
    I doubt you are at all interested and you are probably just being antagonistic, but in case I am wrong, you can find a lot of info for the game at it's own website and forums as well as at the main reddit area.

  9. #49
    Lesser Hivemind Node TheDreamlord's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by QuantaCat View Post
    Im not talking about focus, Im talking about going for a quick game rather than building up to the features planned.
    The game has been in development for a number of years and the intention is to continue developing expansions (at least three major ones are planned) in the years to follow after the original release. I can't think of how they could be more focused.
    Regardless of the rest, to me (and a lot of people who are interested in astronomy) one of the most appealing features is that the game is "set in a scientifically accurate 1:1 scale dynamic Milky Way galaxy using a mix of procedural generation with artist direction" (from the official site).

  10. #50
    Secondary Hivemind Nexus Heliocentric's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by TheDreamlord View Post
    I doubt you are at all interested and you are probably just being antagonistic, but in case I am wrong, you can find a lot of info for the game at it's own website and forums as well as at the main reddit area.
    If you are excited I'm interested, but I'm usually one to wait for release before i get excited. Previews have lied to me for too many years.
    I'm failing to writing a blog, specifically about playing games the wrong way
    http://playingitwrong.wordpress.com/

  11. #51
    Lesser Hivemind Node TheDreamlord's Avatar
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    Oh yes most definitely, I couldn't agree more! For my sins, the main reason I bought into the premium beta is because I bought a Thrustmaster Warthog HOTAS and I was very eager to use it (I don't really have the time to learn a flight sim)! I played very little of the premium beta because it was constantly crashing on me but they fixed most of that half way through the PB. I'll probably play a bit more during the main beta starting in a week, but because progress is reset between these phases, I don't want to spend too much time on it.

    But yeah, this game excites me more than anything I've played the last few years. There is something fantastic in the flight model implementation, plus I've always loved space games. I have my fingers crossed that it will be as good as I hope it will.

    The other reason I talk about this game quite a bit, is because I find Frontier's dev approach refreshing. They are not trying to bullshit me or impress me with fluff. Also, partly because I've worked in one too many badly managed projects where scope creep or too little (or way too much, which is equally bad) emphasis on creating a solid core has ruined them. And what I see so far into E:D is a project that I would be very happy to work in, even if I am not a game developer.

    In conclusion, I agree with you that most people should wait for the game (any game) to be released before diving in. But judging from what I've experienced so far, I believe it is shaping up to be a great space sim game.

  12. #52
    Obscure Node SaimaButt55's Avatar
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    Monsters Ate My Birthday Cake is awesome,

  13. #53
    Quote Originally Posted by Internet View Post
    Star Citizen has a budget that's something like 33 times the size of Elite? Elite has to be focused, after all Double Fine spent more money making Costume Quest. So, what's right for Elite may not be right for Star Citizen.
    I wouldn't necessarily confuse Kickstarter funding with game budget. Frontier Developments was an exiting and profitable developer before their Kickstarter campaign and I'd fully expect that E:D would have happened whether the KS target was reached or not. I'm not saying SC doesn't have a far bigger budget, but I don't think E:D's budget is as low(!) as some people think it is.

    As for Braben's track record, he's got pretty much the most impressive feat of programming in gaming history under his belt (the original Elite - I'm not going to bother arguing with anyone who feels this isn't the case), Zarch and Virus (both very strong titles in their day), and the Raspberry Pi. Sure, Elite 2 and it's expansion were a major disappointment but it's pretty clear he's learned from those mistakes. The big WTF??? is why his development studio went down the Kinect gimmick game route, but it seemed to be commercially successful in any case.

  14. #54
    Network Hub bad guy's Avatar
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    At the end of 2014 I'm getting a new rig. [currently still gaming on WinXP]
    Then GTA5, Assetto Corsa, and IL-2 will be done.
    AND THEY BETTER BE GOOD

  15. #55
    Secondary Hivemind Nexus Heliocentric's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by bad guy View Post
    At the end of 2014 I'm getting a new rig. [currently still gaming on WinXP]
    Then GTA5, Assetto Corsa, and IL-2 will be done.
    AND THEY BETTER BE GOOD
    All 3 will be terrible.
    I'm failing to writing a blog, specifically about playing games the wrong way
    http://playingitwrong.wordpress.com/

  16. #56
    Secondary Hivemind Nexus somini's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Heliocentric View Post
    All 3 will be terrible.
    Keep carrying that PC gaming torch.


    Oh, who am I kidding? Of course they are going to be horrible.
    Steam(shots), Imgur, Flickr, Bak'laag, why do you forsake me?

  17. #57
    Secondary Hivemind Nexus Wenz's Avatar
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    Heard about a game called Vane by former team ico devs

    not coming in 2014 I guess
    post in progress

  18. #58
    Secondary Hivemind Nexus Heliocentric's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by dreadreapr View Post
    company of heroes 2 expansions
    CoH2 ruined it's legacy. What makes you think the dlc will be any different?
    I'm failing to writing a blog, specifically about playing games the wrong way
    http://playingitwrong.wordpress.com/

  19. #59
    Lesser Hivemind Node EPICTHEFAIL's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by TheDreamlord View Post
    The game has been in development for a number of years and the intention is to continue developing expansions (at least three major ones are planned) in the years to follow after the original release. I can't think of how they could be more focused.
    Regardless of the rest, to me (and a lot of people who are interested in astronomy) one of the most appealing features is that the game is "set in a scientifically accurate 1:1 scale dynamic Milky Way galaxy using a mix of procedural generation with artist direction" (from the official site).
    That is pretty much the main reason I bought into the beta. The engine that generates those systems just makes it cooler.

    Honestly, the main difference between ED and SC is this: Frontier have already demonstrated the ability to implement the vast majority of the promised features, either in their previous games, or in the current beta. The one exception to this is walking around and exiting the ship. By contrast, CIG (mainly Chris Roberts) are making huge promises and have only shown a glorified model viewer and a simple dogfighting module. And the previous games CR has made have only had a fraction of the scope that is being promised.

    I`m not saying that Star Citizen will be bad, in all likelihood it will be just as good a game as ED, but the ridiculous amount of hype has become rather obnoxious, given that nothing about it is particularly revolutionary, apart from the graphical fidelity on display.

    I`ll admit, I am biased towards Elite, given how much time I`ve spent in both the beta and Oolite, but I would say that Frontier have a much more sensible approach towards developing it, and the beta in its current state is very much on the right track.

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