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  1. #1
    Secondary Hivemind Nexus squirrel's Avatar
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    Today is the Darkest Day of Human Civilization

    Just as our scientists are making progress on fighting HIV/AIDS, over 100 leading experts in the field were lost in a major air traffic incident. Unsurprisingly this will be a severe blow to the work.

    http://www.telegraph.co.uk/news/worl...n-Ukraine.html

    Rest in peace.

  2. #2
    Moderator QuantaCat's Avatar
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    Thats not the darkest day in civilisation, please stop using hyperboles.
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  3. #3
    Secondary Hivemind Nexus rockman29's Avatar
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    In any case it's really horrible... it was already an ultimate crime in having any person killed. This just adds another dimension of human failure...

    Good job you stupid humans...

  4. #4
    Secondary Hivemind Nexus Heliocentric's Avatar
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    Not a nice thing when people die. Aids is generally an unpleasant thing, but honestly if people would stop having unprotected sex beyond a monogamous relationship and stop reusing other people's syringes it wouldn't be the big deal it is. My heart goes out to rape victims, medical staff suffering incidental exposure and people infected by bad blood transfusions and the partners infected by cheating spouses.

    Now malaria, that's a fucking horrible disease.
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  5. #5
    Secondary Hivemind Nexus rockman29's Avatar
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    Addiction is a beast in itself... when you meet addicts and their families your opinion of them may change drastically, it's a horrible disease and seems to most often start with "it will never happen to me" and then it does. It's much like alcoholism in that way too.

    Especially in the US the demographics of addiction may surprise you. The gateway drug is often prescription painkillers... which moves on to injectable heroin which is $4 a dose on the streets here (re: much, much cheaper than prescription opiates).

    And the sex part.... and drugs part too I guess... is a lot of education and poverty and even cultural issues, probably thousands of other things at play as well. AIDS is a health epidemic like others in a laundry list of different STDs and blood-borne viruses (hepatitis is a big one) and other non-sexual but communicable diseases. If it were so simple it would be solved already.

    /offtopic

    http://www.cbc.ca/news/world/malaysi...ices-1.2710774
    Ukraine has said several of its planes and helicopters have been shot down in four months of fighting in the region, including an An-26 on Monday and an Su-25 fighter on Wednesday by an air-to-air missile — Kiev's strongest accusation yet of direct Russian involvement.

    The Ukraine government, the separatist pro-Russia rebels in the east, and the Russia government believed to be supporting the rebels, all deny shooting the Malaysian passenger plane down.

    "The preponderance of evidence … is that the Russian-backed militia fired a rocket, not intending to wipe out a Malaysian plane, but intending to wipe out a Ukrainian plane — and they got the wrong plane," said former CBC correspondent Brian Stewart, now a senior fellow at the Munk School of Global Affairs in Toronto.

    "And I think the Russian government is probably upset by this and deeply perturbed by it. But it has, however, happened, and it has to be faced."
    It seems extremely odd that civilian rebels could acquire such a powerful missile without some major assistance... and they have shot down several planes and helicopters already.
    Last edited by rockman29; 18-07-2014 at 03:38 PM.

  6. #6
    Secondary Hivemind Nexus squirrel's Avatar
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    Since we cannot predict how this virus would evolve, it's naive to presume we are safe from HIV just because we do not commit certain behaviors currently deemed as risky in contacting the virus. Just because you consider yourself to be safe now doesn't mean you are forever safe. I bet those on that plane had watched the Ukraine incident as someone else's story. Who would expect that months later themselves be caught in the cross-fire?

    And most importantly, just because we are born lucky in affluent environment doesn't grant us right to look down on people who are born unlucky. Some people are born to be gay, and lust is just a biological effect. Even for prostitutes who get AIDS due to their profession, many don't choose to be prostitutes. They are just trying to make a living.

    Of course it's common sense recycling of needle should be avoided. A 3 year-old kid perfectly understands it. So what? New needles are luxury in the Third World. Even here new needles are too expensive for many.

    Malaria is horrible, but at least it's not terminal, not like AIDS or cancer. Some says cancer is curable in early stage. They are lying, including those medical doctors who try to comfort their cancer patients. Cancer is terminal, because it always come back even if you remove the tumor. I know because I have relatives and friends who died of this disease.

    And panadol is not a bad drug at all. People are taking it not just for killing pain, but for the fact it really treats a lot of minor sickness like cold well. People generally are not abusing it. Of course, some people do, but most don't.
    Last edited by squirrel; 18-07-2014 at 03:56 PM.

  7. #7
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    Many people admire Putin in a weird way, because is not the typical western lyiing politician. But he is actually a more dangerous type of liar.

    Here, his politics have resulted in the dead of many, but will not be the last. Then the whole of Rusia is under the propaganda machine, and is already fabricating conspiracy theories to cloud the responsability of russia in this.

    Lets hope EU and USA can make things harder enough to Rusia, so is Putin the one put in a polonio diet.

  8. #8
    Secondary Hivemind Nexus rockman29's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by squirrel View Post
    Since we cannot predict how this virus would evolve, it's naive to presume we are safe from HIV just because we do not commit certain behaviors currently deemed as risky in contacting the virus.

    And most importantly, just because we are born lucky in affluent environment doesn't grant us right to look down on people who are born unlucky. Some people are born to be gay, and lust is just a biological effect. Even for prostitutes who get AIDS due to their profession, many don't choose to be prostitutes. They are just trying to make a living.

    Of course it's common sense recycling of needle should be avoided. A 3 year-old kid perfectly understands it. So what? New needles are luxury in the Third World. Even here new needles are too expensive for many.

    Malaria is horrible, but at least it's not terminal, not like AIDS or cancer. Some says cancer is curable in early stage. They are lying, including those medical doctors who try to comfort their cancer patients. Cancer is terminal, because it always come back even if you remove the tumor. I know because I have relatives and friends who died of this disease.
    I know you probably aren't familiar with most of the stuff you are talking about here, but this is mostly misinformation. Please do not spread this type of information if you really don't know what you're talking about.

    Cancer is not invariably terminal. There is not one type of cancer. Investigation of different types of cancers involves completely different methodology and completely different treatment regimen.

    HIV infection is not a terminal illness in the developed world for the most part with the advent of anti-retrovirals which have been around for a very long time now.

    What you said about the mode of infection is frankly a bunch of rubbish, and you really don't even know what you're on about there. Evolution of the HIV virus has nothing to do with changing the mode of transmission. Barring the most catastrophic event possible, that is simply not in the cards.

    Please just don't comment in a way like you know what you're talking about when you don't.... that's just ridiculous.
    Some says cancer is curable in early stage. They are lying, including those medical doctors who try to comfort their cancer patients. Cancer is terminal, because it always come back even if you remove the tumor.
    This is one of the stupidest things.... I don't even.... I want to say so many things about how stupid this statement is, but I'm just going to leave it at this: Stop talking about things you don't know squat about like you are an authority. You clearly have no idea what you're talking about. If you don't know about something... don't act like you do and post about it.
    Last edited by rockman29; 18-07-2014 at 04:18 PM.

  9. #9
    Secondary Hivemind Nexus squirrel's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Tei View Post
    Many people admire Putin in a weird way, because is not the typical western lyiing politician. But he is actually a more dangerous type of liar.

    Here, his politics have resulted in the dead of many, but will not be the last. Then the whole of Rusia is under the propaganda machine, and is already fabricating conspiracy theories to cloud the responsability of russia in this.

    Lets hope EU and USA can make things harder enough to Rusia, so is Putin the one put in a polonio diet.
    To be fair, this attack is not intended for the unlucky civilian plane. Rebels posted the shot-down excitingly immediately after the attack, only to remove the online postings in a rush after the news came out on public media that the plane they shot down was not a Ukrainian military plane but a civilian one, and in the worst case, one carrying many western citizens of NATO member states.

    And I think Putin indirectly admitted that it was an attack by the rebels. For the way he put it. He commented that this incident was Ukrainian government's responsibility for the fact it wouldn't happen in the first place if there is peace over the region.

    Our country seems to have one on board, too. A Kongese I heard.
    Last edited by squirrel; 18-07-2014 at 04:22 PM.

  10. #10
    Secondary Hivemind Nexus Xercies's Avatar
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    They will never make things hard for Russia they might appear to and give them a very minor slap on the writs but they know how dangerous Russia is so basically it will be a nice PR slap on the wrist that won't actually mean anything.

  11. #11
    Secondary Hivemind Nexus Heliocentric's Avatar
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    Take aids or cancer research money, spend it on malaria nets, or malaria drugs. Save lives, but oops, malaria isn't a first world problem so it's not as fashionable to the donating sources, also governments look at as 'other countries problem'. We pump food aid into counties without education to keep the countries dependant and keep them selling mineral rights or simply to stop them going to war in desperation (Hi north Korea).

    That said, quashing any disease is an awesome goal, but malaria kills lots of people so I see it as important, for the same reasons others leave it as a lesser priority, after all its killing other countries people right, it couldn't possibly evolve just like you outlined with HIV.
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  12. #12
    Secondary Hivemind Nexus rockman29's Avatar
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    They are all important. There are also even multiple types of malaria, there are 4 major types that I'm familiar with at least. There's probably more for all I know. The malaria fight has great treatments already. Resistance to one of the drugs, which is older called hydroxychloroquine/plaquinel, has developed in many areas. But there are many drugs still available, one newer one is mefloquine.

    A big problem is simply getting the drugs there... also the real drugs... there is some worldwide organization that tracks fake drugs I think, and in Africa with all the donating is one of the biggest centers of fake anti-malarials and so on... and as you say the entire development and education and everything that needs to be done there.... a huge task. It's a geopolitical cluster fuck I agree...

    AIDS is a very worldwide epidemic though... and is more common I think than people realize. I think USA the prevalence right now is about 1% or slightly more or less. In South Africa in young black girls the prevalence can be as high as 30 or 40%... from the news it seems like old rich men with AIDS pay money to young school girls and get them infected.... which is really really sad. I think I read that last year sometime.

  13. #13
    Secondary Hivemind Nexus mickygor's Avatar
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    Research and aid are completely different budgetary concerns. You can't ignore AIDS just because malaria still exists in the third world - AIDS is just as rife there too, and a lot of money does​ go into malaria nets and drugs.
    Last edited by mickygor; 18-07-2014 at 04:59 PM.
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  14. #14
    Secondary Hivemind Nexus rockman29's Avatar
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    That is true. There is something to be said about how we optimize the amount of money we spend for the return, where it is spent, who receives the benefit... all sorts of things. There always will be and there should be. But it's important to fight all the battles as well.

    In a similar vein... breast cancer research vastly outpaces lung cancer research money, though many more die from lung cancer in developed countries. It is an example of how social media and society might dictate how money is spent, maybe not for the most optimal results. But honestly as an outsider from this research, it's also hard to say what is optimal anyway.

  15. #15
    Moderator QuantaCat's Avatar
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    I have to admit, though, if I had to choose between obama and putin, Id go for putin. But Austria seems to be in that kind of weird position of best and worst of both worlds.
    - Tom De Roeck.

    verse publications & The Shopkeeper, an interactive short.

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  16. #16
    Secondary Hivemind Nexus Xercies's Avatar
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    The problem with a lot of these Malaria drugs and AID drugs are that a lot of times they are to expensive for the very people that need them so basically they are of no effect.

    if I had to choose between obama and putin, Id go for putin.


    This is abslutly stupid. I'm sorry but a democratic leader that is pretty ok versus a dictator that lies to his people and invades other countries. Yep sure great choice there!

  17. #17
    Secondary Hivemind Nexus Heliocentric's Avatar
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    When military Russian arms are ending up militia hands who shoot down unrelated planes full of medical researchers I need to ask what you are smoking and direct you to a rehabilitation clinic.
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  18. #18
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    Europe had big empires like the roman empire and big migrations, blurring the differences between tribes. Then the dark ages, created a new type of tribalism, the nationalism. Nationalism is really bad, but is much better than tribalism.

    In africa, the president is somebody from the tribe A, is normal that once he is president, he will do everything he can do help his tribe. The next president can be of tribe B, and will help the tribe B, at the expense of the others. Africa will be a shitty place, until they evolve their civilization beyond this stage. We are about 2000 years more advanced than them.


    The islamic world is another shitty place. They have still to separate religion law, with social law, and accept atheism. Accept freedom of speech, and that freedom of speech can be somebody calling your ideas stupid. The western old passed under this stage in the renaissance. We are 500 years more advanced than them.

    The hispanic america have to make some huge self-criticism. It was too easy to blame Spain for their problems. So they have huge unsolved problems, and crappy levels of corruption. We are about 100 to 200 years more advanced than them.


    Its not accepted in public to say that one civilization is more advanced than other. You can't point to the tribalism in africa, or the lack of separation of religion/society in the islam, and say "There, the root of your problems!". And all these people that don't want a discuss based on this things, is not doing the world a favor. People is too scared discussing a civilization is better than other civilization, because they are scared this will generate another hitler. So talking about this is tabbu.

    Meanwhile, we lost our time, and his time. The real solution for all these countries, will be to abandon Religion, abandon Tribalism, move their societies more to how the western world work.

    And we should not stop there. Nationalism is irrational, and about as stupid as tribalism, we should be moving to the next thing, and abandon nationalism as soon as possible.

    Religions, tribalism and nationalism are the root cause of most of the problems we suffer. Others like the AIDS pandemia, will be easier to solve if we solve the root causes.

    Or maybe I am wrong. I am wrong often.
    Last edited by Tei; 18-07-2014 at 10:11 PM.

  19. #19
    Secondary Hivemind Nexus mickygor's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Xercies View Post
    This is abslutly stupid. I'm sorry but a democratic leader that is pretty ok versus a dictator that lies to his people and invades other countries. Yep sure great choice there![/COLOR]
    Which is which? o_O
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  20. #20
    Secondary Hivemind Nexus rockman29's Avatar
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    It's kind of a difficult choice honestly, a big part I think due to the extensive use of military drones by USA, and their participation in dealing arms to terrorist organizations... ahem I mean "rebels."

    I don't even really know anymore. There's some good aspect to some of the domestic policy of Obama, and getting money for border issues... but it's hard to tell if it's him or it's the US congress that is just fucked in the head tbh lol.

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