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  1. #21
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    I used to be a bit of a piracy magpie, wanting to have every game that came out because... reasons.

    Nowadays my taste in games has shrunk and my wallet has grown so there's little need to. I'll usually pirate games now because I suspect they'll disappoint; sometimes it's the next instalment in a series that I think might have jumped the shark, sometimes it's a game that makes big promises but will probably turn out to be a six hour corridor that ends before I realise it's begun. I'm a bit biased against the big publishers though, I'm generally hesitant to pirate indie games at all but won't bat an eyelid at pirating something from a huge company (though I suppose that's also partly because the big companies are the ones that generally herald shitty games with big promises).

  2. #22
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    Quote Originally Posted by deano2099 View Post
    But honestly, with no grandstanding (and no judgment as I've done the same thing) if you had liked it, would you really have bought it there and then? Or just kept on playing the pirate copy, and maybe picked it up in a sale down the road to assuage your conscience a bit (and get it listed in Steam)?
    No, I wouldn't of bought it. Partly because ubisoft and partly because the days of me paying for a full priced game are well and truly over. I wouldn't of kept playing it either even if I did enjoy it. That doesn't sit right with me. I would of probably got it in a sale if I liked it enought. Infact now its 18 on cdkeys, I think that would be my acceptable price point. A shame the game is about as souless as a Poundland all day breakfast in a tin.

  3. #23
    Secondary Hivemind Nexus L_No's Avatar
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    The only games that I have, ahum, "acquired" were games that were unavailable to buy in my area (we're talking about the dark times before Steam and GoG). It's still possible to want to play a game that isn't on Steam, or GoG, or on Amazon, or in a physical store. In that case, I don't have a problem with "acquiring" it - if I absolutely want to buy it, but I can't, well...
    Want to add me on Steam? Steam name: Mr. Gert

  4. #24
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    Quote Originally Posted by Xercies View Post
    I remember buying the Dawn Of War games after I pirated the first because I liked it so much. Despite our assumptions people can be honest. You just got to breed the right culture.
    Sequels sure. But the amount of times people pirate a game, then buy that same game if they like it, I'd wage is quite low.

  5. #25
    Moderator QuantaCat's Avatar
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    For people living in the reality of limited resources, piracy could be a problem.

    Luckily, nobody does.
    - Tom De Roeck.

    verse publications & The Shopkeeper, an interactive short.

    "Quantacat's name is still recognised even if he watches on with detached eyes like Peter Molyneux over a cube in 3D space, staring at it with tears in his eyes, softly whispering... Someday they'll get it."

  6. #26
    Secondary Hivemind Nexus soldant's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by trjp View Post
    You have to understand tho - a lot of pirates are just magpies, they want to see and play and "own" everything. Back in the days of computer clubs and floppy copying, I worked with a guy who spent hours and hours every week copying and making games work (and no time playing the games because he wasn't really THAT interested)
    I have a friend who is exactly like that. Well he used to be, not sure if he still does it or not, but he'd pirate just about every major release and have them sitting there. He never played them, he'd just copy them for friends and say how he had Game X or Y. Back in the late 90s my dad had a friend who was much the same - this was in the days before broadband was readily accessible or even affordable for most people - and he had just about anything and everything you could want on a series of CDs. He had racks and racks of them and had to make a custom database system just to keep track of them.


    In the 90s, the sneakernet was more or less the only way I ever got software, and casual piracy was rife. We barely bought anything, because a lot of it was ridiculously expensive (for those times, though the price of software has actually remained fairly stagnant in Australia) and some things just weren't readily available, particularly in the early to mid 90s.

    Since the rise of Steam though I pretty much don't pirate games or software - it's just more convenient to get the Steam copy and it's usually reasonably priced (or I can import if it isn't). The only games I've pirated in recent times were old games that aren't available on GoG and are long since out of print, so it's an access issue.
    Nalano's Law - As an online gaming discussion regarding restrictions grows longer, the probability of a post likening the topic to the Democratic People's Republic of Korea approaches one.
    Soldant's Law - A person will happily suspend their moral values if they can express moral outrage by doing so.

  7. #27
    Network Hub grasskit's Avatar
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    eh used to pirate exclusively, in the 90s just because there was no other way to get games, later just because i could- shit was free, no complex moral qualms or reasoning about it. nowadays i still pirate to see if im interested in a game, if i am, i buy it. if not, move on. got less time to play games, which means pretty much everything im interested in playing, i buy. although its not because i can afford it or feel good about owning it, its simply because (with steam etc.) you usually get tangible benefits of legal copy: multiplayer, regular updates, steam workshop integration, even steam achievements etc.
    last games i pirated was spintires and divine divinity, both after hour of playing later bought on steam.
    Last edited by grasskit; 23-07-2014 at 10:29 AM.

  8. #28
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    I have been pirating games ever since I learnt how. Before that, I bought pirated dvds from local shops and i've never felt guilty about it because those are the only options I have. There's no digital payment system in my country and even if there was, I wouldn't be able to afford most games (not at full price anyways). Someone who has recently finished an undergraduate degree and has no work experience can expect to earn about $150-200 per month under normal circumstances here and spending $60 on a game is just ridiculous.
    But lately i've realized that I love acquiring games legally. There's no logic to it but I feel good while playing games that are not pirated and am always on the lookout for giveaways and stuff. Hunting for free stuff has become a game in itself for me and its just weird when i think about it.

    About the whole biased thing, I think people are more inclined to pirate games when doing so will have no effect on the level of enjoyment they get out of it, which is mostly true in case of a completely singleplayer focused game. But when pirating a game locks you out of certain features or aspects of the game, people might be more inclined to buy them. For example, I pirated dark souls and loved it but the whole pvp aspect was off-limits to me. If online payment was possible around here, I would buy the game in a heartbeat. Same thing for most multiplayer focused game as well.

  9. #29
    Lesser Hivemind Node frightlever's Avatar
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    Know which game never got pirated? Diablo 3, that's who. The question there is whether that allowed them to maximise their sales. I suspect it did, but in an exception that proves the rule kind of way.

    In general I agree that there's a direct correlation between amount of piracy and how well the game sells in general - NB I don't mean percentage of pirated versions vs legit versions, I mean that niche games will have low numbers of pirated copies and massive AAA games will have millions of pirated copies.

    I don't think anything a developer does will impact meaningfully on the number of pirated copies, but it may meaningfully increase the number of legitimate sales. (please read carefully before putting words into my mouth).

  10. #30
    Secondary Hivemind Nexus squirrel's Avatar
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    Even online games with server operations strictly controlled by publishers or designated operators, have cracked pirate servers which have dedicated followers, then the issue would really inflict some serious damages on publishers. To my surprise, even World of Warcrafts have cracked servers run by pirates, and have a very large player base over here.

  11. #31
    Quote Originally Posted by blob View Post
    About the whole biased thing, I think people are more inclined to pirate games when doing so will have no effect on the level of enjoyment they get out of it, which is mostly true in case of a completely singleplayer focused game. But when pirating a game locks you out of certain features or aspects of the game, people might be more inclined to buy them.
    That's one possible part of this that I find a rather worrying.

    Are games with multiplayer features slightly less likely to be pirated, even if it is only for psychological reasons?
    By accepting piracy as a something that just happens, are we inadvertently encouraging games to have multiplayer features when they wouldn't have any otherwise?

    Multiplayer definitely doesn't stop the piracy of a game as multiplayer games are pirated all the time, but even the minor possibility or inconvenience of losing a feature might make a significance difference just because of the sheer rate at which some games are pirated.

    What I find worrying is that it seems possible that there are certain features or patterns in games that are being encouraged not so much because people genuinely like them, but because they cause people to pirate the game less for obscure psychological reasons.
    Developers wouldn't have to be doing it on purpose. A developer or publisher might just know that this feature or set of features makes a game a bit more successful on average, even if they don't know why. Part of that might be players genuinely enjoying said feature, and part of that might be 1 out of 50 potential pirates buying the game instead for whatever reason psychological or otherwise.

  12. #32
    Secondary Hivemind Nexus Xercies's Avatar
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    To my surprise, even World of Warcrafts have cracked servers run by pirates, and have a very large player base over here.


    I see them almost like preservation, I've seen those Private Servers and a lot of them want to go back to WoW pre expansions or only have a few or whatever. There are many defunct MMOs that have a new life because pirates have made private servers for them and many people are enjoying them because of that.

  13. #33
    Secondary Hivemind Nexus rockman29's Avatar
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    There does seem to be a function of preservation definitely, especially for older titles.

    There are very large private trackers almost dedicated to sharing games that are released before a certain year. Some don't want those versions to disappear, others just want to play those games again too.

    I think Star Wars Galaxies is already running, or they are trying to run a pre-expansion pack version or something privately. Is that preservation "right" though, I'm not sure. The product was sold on a subscription service and maybe was meant to be only for a limited time.

    That people want to continue playing it after that (most) legal distribution ends, does that supercede the rights of the license holders? More grey area.

    There's the question of when this is valid and for which titles, if it is ever valid at all, and I don't think there is a universal answer for every product. Or maybe there is, and most of us might not like that answer. But maybe most likely it's probably a lot more grey area. Preservation may start as soon as a game is released, but that is probably not the primary intent of piracy at the very beginning.
    Last edited by rockman29; 23-07-2014 at 03:53 PM.

  14. #34
    Secondary Hivemind Nexus L_No's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by rockman29 View Post
    There does seem to be a function of preservation definitely, especially for older titles.

    There are very large private trackers almost dedicated to sharing games that are released before a certain year. Some don't want those versions to disappear, others just want to play those games again too.

    I think Star Wars Galaxies is already running, or they are trying to run a pre-expansion pack version or something privately. Is that preservation "right" though, I'm not sure. The product was sold on a subscription service and maybe was meant to be only for a limited time.
    A friend of mine was a very big fan of Galaxies, and he did play it on an unofficial server for a while after the main game was shut down. He said it wasn't comparable (yet) with how the real game originally played, and that a lot of features were still missing. As far as preservation goes, Galaxies hasn't yet been preserved the way it should be.
    Want to add me on Steam? Steam name: Mr. Gert

  15. #35
    First of all let's get something straight. Piracy is NEVER theft. theft means person A takes something from person B, thus depriving person B from access to said thing. when you pirate software no one else loses that software.

    I pirate stuff that looks interesting, and buy it if I like it. Try before you buy. I can't even count how many games I would have never bought if not for piracy. so the reverse is true too.

  16. #36
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    Quote Originally Posted by BadManiac View Post
    First of all let's get something straight. Piracy is NEVER theft. theft means person A takes something from person B, thus depriving person B from access to said thing. when you pirate software no one else loses that software.
    This is the wrong perspective. Whatever your views on the definition of theft, piracy still deprives the developer of a potential sale *at that moment in time*.

    If you, for example, run a newspaper and someone takes a copy of your newspaper each day and reprints it for mass distribution, you and your business have been harmed.

    You can throw around unproven and/or anecdotal examples of piracy improving sales, but there has not yet been a solid study published on the matter. In the mean time, piracy is bad. It is a negative mindset to be in, and everyone I know who plays computer games, including myself, has had that mindset at one time or another. Time to snap out of it is preferably when you get your first job, if not sooner...

  17. #37
    Secondary Hivemind Nexus soldant's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Bedeage View Post
    This is the wrong perspective. Whatever your views on the definition of theft, piracy still deprives the developer of a potential sale *at that moment in time*.

    If you, for example, run a newspaper and someone takes a copy of your newspaper each day and reprints it for mass distribution, you and your business have been harmed.
    BadManiac is right though - piracy is not theft. It can't be theft by the definition of theft - deprivation of a potential sale is not the same as me physically taking goods (or converting them) from you. That's why it's called copyright infringement, and not theft. If I take the CD from you, that's theft. If I copy that CD, but you still have that CD, I haven't stolen anything from you. I've made an unauthorised copy, which makes me guilty of copyright infringement, but I haven't stolen it from you.

    BadManiac didn't suggest that copyright infringement doesn't equate to a loss for the developer, he simply said that piracy isn't theft. And it isn't. Your views on the definition is irrelevant because the crime of theft is pretty clearly defined in each jurisdiction.
    Nalano's Law - As an online gaming discussion regarding restrictions grows longer, the probability of a post likening the topic to the Democratic People's Republic of Korea approaches one.
    Soldant's Law - A person will happily suspend their moral values if they can express moral outrage by doing so.

  18. #38
    Secondary Hivemind Nexus Xercies's Avatar
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    There's the question of when this is valid and for which titles, if it is ever valid at all, and I don't think there is a universal answer for every product. Or maybe there is, and most of us might not like that answer. But maybe most likely it's probably a lot more grey area.
    If we didn't have people wading into the grey area of abandonware would we have GoG?

    My feelings are that yes you signed up for the service that completely changes the game but I don't think there is much damage creating private servers so you can play the game that you want to play. Besides ive been on a few of them and there to quiet for an MMO so you still have to really play the real game if you want to get the full experience.

  19. #39
    Secondary Hivemind Nexus c-Row's Avatar
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    I don't think I had any real preferences back in the days other than personal interest in a genre or word of mouth. I used to have a huge collection of pirated Amiga games thanks to a combination of little pocket money (though I did buy a copy of Rise Of The Robots of all games - why?!?) and limited supply from local shops which embraced DOS/Windows gaming when Commodore was already in decline, but I dumped all of those copied 3.5" disks in the trash after feeling bad about it one day.

    Quote Originally Posted by Xercies View Post
    If we didn't have people wading into the grey area of abandonware would we have GoG?
    Indeed - GoG simply saw people's demand and created a business model to cater to it.
    - If the sound of Samuel Barber's "Adagio For Strings" makes you think of Kharak burning instead of the Vietnamese jungle, most of your youth happened during the 90s. -

  20. #40
    Secondary Hivemind Nexus squirrel's Avatar
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    GOG's success is much more than piracy and DRM issue. It updates all the old games to make them running on modern Windows (actually I don't know if it's CDP or the publishers doing the updating world, but CDP is the one putting them altogether under one umbrella for us to shop with ease. CDP, you are great babe, give me a kiss!!)

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