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  1. #1
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    TESO Locks Steam Forum

    I tried the Beta for TESO and I wont ever play it. That said, there are people on Steam asking for opinions on the game. And though I only played in the Beta, gripes I had about the game are things that cannot be fixed. Not between Beta and release. Not ever.

    My main concerns are terrible writing, shallow, MMO-trope quests, dated and stiff animations, weightless combat and poor voice acting. I wanted to warn people off, but...I cannot post in the Steam Forum for TESO.

    It seems the forum has been locked. Only people who own the game are allowed to post there. On the one hand I get this. Amazon only allows you to review a book or movie if you bought the product. Or at least rented it. Limits trolling.

    On the other hand...there are numerous people who bought and/or tried TESO outside of Steam. Since it did not begin its life there. And I feel we too have a right to offer our opinion on the product.

    Given that no other game (that I know of) has ever done this, I was wondering...does this seem like a questionable/shady thing to do? Or is it a good idea to help prevent trolling on game forums? Your thoughts, please.

  2. #2
    Secondary Hivemind Nexus rockman29's Avatar
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    Well it does help if you can tell your opinion here.

    Can you post on their official forums (if they have any on their own publisher website) without buying the game too?

    Can you post a review through Steam without buying the game maybe? I guess not.

  3. #3
    Secondary Hivemind Nexus gundato's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Blackcompany View Post
    Given that no other game (that I know of) has ever done this, I was wondering...does this seem like a questionable/shady thing to do? Or is it a good idea to help prevent trolling on game forums? Your thoughts, please.
    Actually, this happens quite frequently. Generally it is associated with games where ,for whatever reason, lots of people who don't own the game feel the need to give their opinions.

    And while I don't like it on the grounds that it IS a way to manipulate public perception, I have no problems with it. Any gaming subreddit is full of people who will feel the need to give their opinions of a game that came out for that platform, regardless of anyone soliciting it. And a forum dedicated to a game will have more.

    And honestly, I wouldn't rely on the official(-ish) forums for a game anyway, since you will get biased opinions anyway.

    So yeah, this does nothing and discourages "Der, this isn't Skyrim 2 so it is bad" posts.
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  4. #4
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    Fair points. I think what bothered me about it was the way in which it affects folks who have played the game by other means. But then too, they have other places to leave their opinions of the game.

    Also interesting to know other games have done this. Have not run into it previously. Though to be honest I dont frankly blame developers and publishers for this. Taking a moment to think about it...if you didnt buy and try the merchandise why should you be allowed to discuss/review it?

  5. #5
    Secondary Hivemind Nexus soldant's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by gundato View Post
    Actually, this happens quite frequently. Generally it is associated with games where ,for whatever reason, lots of people who don't own the game feel the need to give their opinions.
    Exactly. The Steam Forums (and SPUF before the current ones) are 90% bullshit, with 10% useful data. If the game doesn't work exactly as expected, the first response is to raaaaaaaaaage on the Steam forum, demand a refund, and blame Valve. Then post in every other thread saying "LOLWTF WUZ TIS MADE BY 3 YER OLD VALEV REFUDS NOW PLZ."
    Nalano's Law - As an online gaming discussion regarding restrictions grows longer, the probability of a post likening the topic to the Democratic People's Republic of Korea approaches one.
    Soldant's Law - A person will happily suspend their moral values if they can express moral outrage by doing so.

  6. #6
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    Quote Originally Posted by soldant View Post
    Exactly. The Steam Forums (and SPUF before the current ones) are 90% bullshit, with 10% useful data. If the game doesn't work exactly as expected, the first response is to raaaaaaaaaage on the Steam forum, demand a refund, and blame Valve. Then post in every other thread saying "LOLWTF WUZ TIS MADE BY 3 YER OLD VALEV REFUDS NOW PLZ."
    I wish we lived in a world where I could say this isnt true. But it is. More and more I think I like the locked based on ownership (or lack thereof) idea.

  7. #7
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    Huh, something just occurred to me.

    We still use normal forums instead of threaded.

    Why.

  8. #8
    Secondary Hivemind Nexus gundato's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by mouton View Post
    Huh, something just occurred to me.

    We still use normal forums instead of threaded.

    Why.
    Huh? What is the different between a "normal forums" and "threaded"?
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  9. #9
    Lesser Hivemind Node frightlever's Avatar
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    This forum is threaded, you just can't see the "nesting". When you reply you reply to specific messages but your reply ends up at the "bottom". I reckon there's an option they need to turn on or something. That said, forums with "nested" messages are a waste of time unless it's done really well. RPS is generally low volume so nesting is hardly a priority.

    Re: TESO - so long as they aren't deleting comments from owners who post negative reviews then I guess locking is okay.

  10. #10
    Secondary Hivemind Nexus gwathdring's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by frightlever View Post
    This forum is threaded, you just can't see the "nesting". When you reply you reply to specific messages but your reply ends up at the "bottom". I reckon there's an option they need to turn on or something. That said, forums with "nested" messages are a waste of time unless it's done really well. RPS is generally low volume so nesting is hardly a priority.

    Re: TESO - so long as they aren't deleting comments from owners who post negative reviews then I guess locking is okay.
    I'm not sure I like the interface, but the community makes good use of Slashdot's threading. They seem used to it and know how to use to well to make discussions work. I kind of like things this way though--threading is great on the main comments page, but here I like the all-in-one-room-chatting feel.
    I think of [the Internet] as a grisly raw steak laid out on a porcelain benchtop in the sun, covered in chocolate hazelnut sauce. In the background plays Stardustís Music Sounds Better With You. Thereís lots of fog. --tomeoftom

    You ruined his point by putting it in context thatís cheating -bull0

  11. #11
    Lesser Hivemind Node frightlever's Avatar
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    I meant to say that nesting works well if you have voting, and Slashdot was in my mind at the time but it's been AGES since I went there and to be honest I think the interface is what turned me off, but yeah you can skim through comments and pick out the up-moderated ones that are more likely to interest you. Here it tends more to be a conversation and the only time nesting would be handy would be to collapse the bone-headed quote-fests of mutual masturbation when two guys have a slap fight over the definition of how much they agree about something.

  12. #12
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    I've rarely seen a Steam forum that's anywhere near as useful and interesting as the developer's official forum. Indeed the only reason I ever posted on a Steam forum was to get an extra Steam level so I could get cards from Community Votes.
    Irrelevant on further examination of the rest of the thread.

  13. #13
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    What is TESO?

    Is not The Elder Scrolls Online?
    Abandoned PC gaming for good. Now rest in a better place. psn:Teikman

  14. #14
    Secondary Hivemind Nexus thegooseking's Avatar
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    I don't think it's right. Forums are not just about giving opinions, they're also about asking questions, and the people who would have the most important questions to ask are those who haven't bought the game yet (especially since TESO ain't cheap, and for that price, as I implied in another thread, potential customers deserve more information about what they're getting - I'm not big on gamer entitlement, but more information about the game is one thing I truly believe gamers do deserve).

    The dodge that you can always ask about it on other forums is pretty convenient, but why go to a general forum when you can go to a specialist forum?

    I won't be buying TESO. I have considered it, but I honestly just don't know enough about it to justify that investment. I could find out about it, but it's a publisher's job to sell the game to me, not my job to sell the game to myself, and when my obvious avenues of inquiry about a game are blocked off, that contention is only amplified.

  15. #15
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    Quote Originally Posted by thegooseking View Post
    I don't think it's right. Forums are not just about giving opinions, they're also about asking questions, and the people who would have the most important questions to ask are those who haven't bought the game yet (especially since TESO ain't cheap, and for that price, as I implied in another thread, potential customers deserve more information about what they're getting - I'm not big on gamer entitlement, but more information about the game is one thing I truly believe gamers do deserve).

    The dodge that you can always ask about it on other forums is pretty convenient, but why go to a general forum when you can go to a specialist forum?

    I won't be buying TESO. I have considered it, but I honestly just don't know enough about it to justify that investment. I could find out about it, but it's a publisher's job to sell the game to me, not my job to sell the game to myself, and when my obvious avenues of inquiry about a game are blocked off, that contention is only amplified.
    Had not thought about it that way. That's a pretty powerful argument. And a convincing one. Very good points.

  16. #16
    Network Hub Nahru's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Blackcompany View Post
    On the other hand...there are numerous people who bought and/or tried TESO outside of Steam. Since it did not begin its life there. And I feel we too have a right to offer our opinion on the product.

    Given that no other game (that I know of) has ever done this, I was wondering...does this seem like a questionable/shady thing to do? Or is it a good idea to help prevent trolling on game forums? Your thoughts, please.

    I think it is for the best. Steam has a high concentration of trolls, people whose opinion is worthless and inane, and it is best to not allow them to post there. Like those who never actually played the game but are happy to speak the opinions of others as if they are their own.

    Regarding the "right" to offer an opinion... There is a whole internet available for that. And people who actually care about their money, their time, their effort etc... will actually check multiple internet or other sources for information about the game prior to purchasing it. And will not (just) rely on questionable usefulness of Steam forums.

  17. #17
    Obscure Node papagoose's Avatar
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    A bad idea as far as I am concerned. After the initial period and an extra month in ESO I had enjoyed myself and wanted to give a little feedback in various threads from people with legitimate concerns and queries about gameplay. But I couldn't and looking back I can see that many of the threads just sink without a trace with just a few speculative replies that in some cases are just misleading. Sad day to see the trolls and naysayers having so much influence. Sometimes you just have to trust your customer base to be able to see past the crap that is posted.

  18. #18
    Lesser Hivemind Node frightlever's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Nahru View Post

    I think it is for the best. Steam has a high concentration of trolls, people whose opinion is worthless and inane
    I disagree. Steam has a LOT of trolls but I don't see that the concentration is any different from anywhere else. The outliers of bad behaviour have an impact disproportionate to their size in any medium.

    What I'd like to see from Steam is better moderation. I got told off by a mod on here for having a laugh with a buddy (and, bizarrely, the mod used racially aggravating language when he told me off which I still find absolutely baffling but I let it slide) whereas the aggressive language that goes on within the Steam forums is terribly disappointing.

    There's free speech in the US but if you get someone to sign a EULA before using your forum you can moderate as strongly as you want, so they just choose not to or perhaps it's more a case that it's down to individual sub forums how they handle it.

    eg the Darkwood developer was saying on the Steam forum that he's never locked or deleted any of the threads complaining about the game changing focus after being funded, but that Steam moderators had removed some threads (Lord knows what bile they must have contained).

    I suspect Steam don't actively moderate, leaving that to the developers or publishers unless there's a user complaint they have to investigate. So if you see something you don't like on Steam report it, I guess.

  19. #19
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    Quote Originally Posted by gundato View Post
    Huh? What is the different between a "normal forums" and "threaded"?
    I was unclear.

    I was wondering why do we use single-thread forums, like RPS forums, instead of nested comments, like reddit. It is just not logical.

  20. #20
    Secondary Hivemind Nexus Heliocentric's Avatar
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    I despise the effects of threaded system on the actual conversation. It's great among peers, or for bug testing and stuff like that.
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