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  1. #21
    Secondary Hivemind Nexus gwathdring's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by mouton View Post
    I was unclear.

    I was wondering why do we use single-thread forums, like RPS forums, instead of nested comments, like reddit. It is just not logical.
    I really prefer just quoting. Nesting is great for, well, Slashdot. News websites, digests, support forums--places where information is being collected and curated. They're not very good for socializing. RPS forums are mostly socializing. I like that.
    I think of [the Internet] as a grisly raw steak laid out on a porcelain benchtop in the sun, covered in chocolate hazelnut sauce. In the background plays Stardustís Music Sounds Better With You. Thereís lots of fog. --tomeoftom

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  2. #22
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    Bwah. RPS threads often get derailed (like, for example, what i am doing right now) or dominated by two-three most active commenters and tl;dr-ed by walls of text and quotes. Simple forums are cool for low-traffic low-population discussions, but they quickly become much less functional if a topic is even moderately popular.

    That's my experience, at least.

  3. #23
    Secondary Hivemind Nexus gwathdring's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by mouton View Post
    Bwah. RPS threads often get derailed (like, for example, what i am doing right now) or dominated by two-three most active commenters and tl;dr-ed by walls of text and quotes. Simple forums are cool for low-traffic low-population discussions, but they quickly become much less functional if a topic is even moderately popular.

    That's my experience, at least.
    Whereas in a threaded discussion where entire conversations never get derailed and walls of text do not and cannot exist?

    Come off it.

    Who wants conversations that stay painfully rigidly on topic anyway? That tends to only happen when it's a boring conversation that might as well not be had.

    People tend to get back to things eventually, but if your concern is long posts and hihg-frequency then your problem isn't the interface it's that you want to only talk to people who type things in a way you want to read. Fair game, but changing to a threaded system ain't going to solve that problem. You fix that problem with rules about how people post--be they rules of etiquette or more rigid rules.

    Such things aren't really interface dependent. Further, interface changes that do help have very little to do with threadedness. Long posts, for example, can be mitigated with a "read more" function.
    Last edited by gwathdring; 26-07-2014 at 11:13 PM.
    I think of [the Internet] as a grisly raw steak laid out on a porcelain benchtop in the sun, covered in chocolate hazelnut sauce. In the background plays Stardustís Music Sounds Better With You. Thereís lots of fog. --tomeoftom

    You ruined his point by putting it in context thatís cheating -bull0

  4. #24
    Secondary Hivemind Nexus alms's Avatar
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    How many other games on Steam are restricting the ability to comment to owners only?

    In some situations this might be an understandable move, but we all know how people who have paid for something have often an annoying tendency to not see the problems with whatever it is they bought and even misrepresent it as the best thing after sliced bread.

    Someone wise once said that 90% of everything is crap, enough said.
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  5. #25
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    Quote Originally Posted by gwathdring View Post
    Whereas in a threaded discussion where entire conversations never get derailed and walls of text do not and cannot exist?

    Come off it.

    Who wants conversations that stay painfully rigidly on topic anyway? That tends to only happen when it's a boring conversation that might as well not be had.
    That's not what I mean at all. A multi-threaded discussion can both stay on topic AND drift away into sub-threads. Win-win. In single-thread a bunch of discussions get mixed up together and it is easy to lose track unless you are one of the chosen three blabbermouths that lead the discussion.

  6. #26
    Secondary Hivemind Nexus gundato's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by alms View Post
    How many other games on Steam are restricting the ability to comment to owners only?

    In some situations this might be an understandable move, but we all know how people who have paid for something have often an annoying tendency to not see the problems with whatever it is they bought and even misrepresent it as the best thing after sliced bread.

    Someone wise once said that 90% of everything is crap, enough said.
    As opposed to all the people who didn't buy it who are totally 100% accurate in what they post?

    There are problems either way, so I can't really get too worked up one way or another.
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  7. #27
    Secondary Hivemind Nexus gwathdring's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by mouton View Post
    That's not what I mean at all. A multi-threaded discussion can both stay on topic AND drift away into sub-threads. Win-win. In single-thread a bunch of discussions get mixed up together and it is easy to lose track unless you are one of the chosen three blabbermouths that lead the discussion.
    Hmm. I'm not sure that really makes sense. There's nothing to stop the top-level comments from getting side-tracked, redundant, or confusing. Good visual design helps, but only so much.

    In the main page, for example, it's virtually impossible to have a conversation via top-level comments. You have to dive into side-threads otherwise it gets hopelessly messy. This means that there is no main conversation. Whether or not top-level comments are on topic or is completely unrelated.

    What this tends to do is make top-level comments a conversation between the poster and the OP and/or a direct response form the poster to the article. This doens't mean they're more on topic. It doesn't mean they're shorter. It doesn't mean really anything about their content. Just that they're not talking to the person who just posted, or at least if they are it will be hard to tel as soon as threaded conversations start up. There are pros and cons to this approach; it is not win-win.

    For both better and worse the way we do things here is more like ... well ... a forum. Things are said, everyone can hear them (but can equally ignore them); people come and go, but it's all happening right there in the middle. There might be side-conversations (and always are) but everyone can hear everyone else. Reditt, Slashdot ... these are more like streets lined with cafes, pedestrians, and miscellanea--see something you like, step off to the side and enjoy it. But you can't really interact with the whole street and there isn't really a sense of continuity. Discussions still get mixed together, repeated ad nauseum in various isolated corners of the overarching thread, derailed by side-comments of off-topic posts, and so on and so forth. In a lot of ways it encourages thread-dominance behaviors because some people feel more comfortable behaving that way in their little sub-thread.
    Last edited by gwathdring; 27-07-2014 at 01:10 AM.
    I think of [the Internet] as a grisly raw steak laid out on a porcelain benchtop in the sun, covered in chocolate hazelnut sauce. In the background plays Stardustís Music Sounds Better With You. Thereís lots of fog. --tomeoftom

    You ruined his point by putting it in context thatís cheating -bull0

  8. #28
    Secondary Hivemind Nexus soldant's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by gwathdring View Post
    Whereas in a threaded discussion where entire conversations never get derailed and walls of text do not and cannot exist?
    Gonna side with Mouton this way - we can have our cake and eat it too with threaded forums. Those of us (like me) who like to argue for the sake of it can have our tangents, while those who want to sit in a hugbox on topic can have their own thread. Everybody wins.

    (Don't take that too personally guys, I'm indulging in hyperbole)
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  9. #29
    Secondary Hivemind Nexus gwathdring's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by soldant View Post
    Gonna side with Mouton this way - we can have our cake and eat it too with threaded forums. Those of us (like me) who like to argue for the sake of it can have our tangents, while those who want to sit in a hugbox on topic can have their own thread. Everybody wins.

    (Don't take that too personally guys, I'm indulging in hyperbole)
    In practice I just don't see everyone "staying in a hugbox on topic" in threaded forums.
    I think of [the Internet] as a grisly raw steak laid out on a porcelain benchtop in the sun, covered in chocolate hazelnut sauce. In the background plays Stardustís Music Sounds Better With You. Thereís lots of fog. --tomeoftom

    You ruined his point by putting it in context thatís cheating -bull0

  10. #30
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    Typically in the forum I want my posts to be read by everyone, and want to read everyone's posts, so the standard format is preferable to threading. I've never enjoyed a threaded forum---it seems like they're solutions to problems of a) too many posters and b) too diverse a conversation. We don't really have either of those problems on this forum so we don't really need to solve them. Even when two people are having a pitched battle, you can usually just make whatever comment you want and people will read and respond to it amidst the battle.
    Irrelevant on further examination of the rest of the thread.

  11. #31
    Secondary Hivemind Nexus soldant's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by gwathdring View Post
    In practice I just don't see everyone "staying in a hugbox on topic" in threaded forums.
    They can have their separate thread where they don't venture outside their strict, narrow definition of 'on topic' while the rest of us tear at each other's flesh with our razor sharp teeth powered by our drive to engage in glorious combat of the mind. If I was an artist, I'd draw you a picture.
    Nalano's Law - As an online gaming discussion regarding restrictions grows longer, the probability of a post likening the topic to the Democratic People's Republic of Korea approaches one.
    Soldant's Law - A person will happily suspend their moral values if they can express moral outrage by doing so.

  12. #32
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    Quote Originally Posted by NathanH View Post
    Typically in the forum I want my posts to be read by everyone, and want to read everyone's posts
    That depends on the person, of course. Often i ignore offtopic or ontopic posts, if i am disinterested in that particular line of thought.
    Quote Originally Posted by NathanH View Post
    it seems like they're solutions to problems of a) too many posters and b) too diverse a conversation. We don't really have either of those problems on this forum
    Well, now there I can't agree. Things can get pretty intense/crowded/chaotic in these parts.

  13. #33
    Secondary Hivemind Nexus gundato's Avatar
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    My issue with branching threads is that it just discourages anything more than a 1on1 conversation as you can't reply to multiple people. Either you have a high level "everyone makes random comments that ignore all other posts" (which seems to be what some people think forums should be?), or you have replies that will generally only be seen by the person being replied to. So if twenty people comment on the dangers of sticking a 9 volt battery to their tongue but you reply to JimBob32, odds are those other 19 people are no longer part of the conversation (unless they are actively checking the thread and reading every reply... which is the current system...)

    Don't get me wrong, I like Reddit and I think a solution like that is the only thing you can do when you have such massive threads. But we are nowhere near that massive, and I don't go to Reddit for the community.
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  14. #34
    Secondary Hivemind Nexus gwathdring's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by soldant View Post
    They can have their separate thread where they don't venture outside their strict, narrow definition of 'on topic' while the rest of us tear at each other's flesh with our razor sharp teeth powered by our drive to engage in glorious combat of the mind. If I was an artist, I'd draw you a picture.
    You should. :D
    I think of [the Internet] as a grisly raw steak laid out on a porcelain benchtop in the sun, covered in chocolate hazelnut sauce. In the background plays Stardustís Music Sounds Better With You. Thereís lots of fog. --tomeoftom

    You ruined his point by putting it in context thatís cheating -bull0

  15. #35
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    Quote Originally Posted by mouton View Post
    Well, now there I can't agree. Things can get pretty intense/crowded/chaotic in these parts.
    Yeah but that tends to be on one thread a day at most. Most threads never exceed 100 posts.

    I've never actually understood how to read a threaded forum. I just want to read everything everyone posts on a topic, but if I go back a day later new stuff is all over the place and it's such a mess.

  16. #36
    Secondary Hivemind Nexus somini's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by deano2099 View Post
    Yeah but that tends to be on one thread a day at most. Most threads never exceed 100 posts.

    I've never actually understood how to read a threaded forum. I just want to read everything everyone posts on a topic, but if I go back a day later new stuff is all over the place and it's such a mess.
    You have an account. Just subscribe to the threads you want to follow and just go to your Control Panel
    http://www.rockpapershotgun.com/forums/usercp.php
    Click the blue arrows () to go to the last unread post.
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  17. #37
    Secondary Hivemind Nexus soldant's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by gundato View Post
    My issue with branching threads is that it just discourages anything more than a 1on1 conversation as you can't reply to multiple people.
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    Quote Originally Posted by gwathdring View Post
    You should. :D
    I started and gave up. Perhaps I will start again.
    Nalano's Law - As an online gaming discussion regarding restrictions grows longer, the probability of a post likening the topic to the Democratic People's Republic of Korea approaches one.
    Soldant's Law - A person will happily suspend their moral values if they can express moral outrage by doing so.

  18. #38
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    Wow, last time I encountered a threaded vs. flat debate I don't think reddit even existed. Apparently the 80s are cool again or something. =/

  19. #39
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    Quote Originally Posted by somini View Post
    You have an account. Just subscribe to the threads you want to follow and just go to your Control Panel
    http://www.rockpapershotgun.com/forums/usercp.php
    Click the blue arrows () to go to the last unread post.
    Needs to be implemented correctly though, and means fiddling about with subscribing to stuff. Is there any way on the RPS front page to just read or highlight new comments?

  20. #40
    Secondary Hivemind Nexus mickygor's Avatar
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    Kinja have a nice middle ground in the threaded/flat debate. I actually think they have the best implementation tbh.
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