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  1. #21
    Secondary Hivemind Nexus Zephro's Avatar
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    Well really everyone should be tested to see what % neanderthal they are, all the people who are more homo sapien than average have to pay reparations.

  2. #22
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    Heh, China will have a massive internal balance shift with all the reperation that would need to be paid.
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  3. #23
    Secondary Hivemind Nexus Fanbuoy's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by pepper View Post
    Heh, China will have a massive internal balance shift with all the reperation that would need to be paid.
    Are you saying that Chinese are less neanderthal than other people? God, I hope Squirrel isn't reading this anymore.

  4. #24
    Secondary Hivemind Nexus Zephro's Avatar
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    I dunno but I think those homo sapien pricks from the Rift Valley owe Europe a lot of cash!

  5. #25
    Network Hub Donjo's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by nate View Post
    Just like we did with France! Take that Musolini!
    Genius. 4 rale lolling here :D

    I for one blame it all on the beaker people. If we could form a quango to enforce reparations from the beaker people due to their destruction of the culture of the British Isles that would be good. Coming here from the Iberian Peninsula, giving us cups so we didn't have to lick water from our hands....

  6. #26
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    Quote Originally Posted by Fanbuoy View Post
    Are you saying that Chinese are less neanderthal than other people? God, I hope Squirrel isn't reading this anymore.
    Nah, it's mostly about the millenia of internal warfare and strugle, imagine tracing back all the linage and setup a system for reperations for that! Fun Fun Fun!
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  7. #27
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    Stop picking on Squirrel. The poor chap is in a Chinese government facility somewhere with electrodes strapped to his gonads. It's the only logical explanation for his posting history.

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  8. #28
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    Latin America is a cultural shift away from being some first world thing.

    They have to reject religion and corruption.

    If they become pure rationalist countries efficient run, they will excel at this shit we call economy.

  9. #29
    Secondary Hivemind Nexus Zephro's Avatar
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    I can't work out if that's ironically lampooning squirrel or not....

  10. #30
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    Not sure what's particularly rational about pursuing a path to extinction, to say nothing of more philosophical objections.

    Of course the greatest incentive for developing nations to get ahead in the rat race is the sure knowledge that those at the bottom of the ladder are going to suffer the most as it all starts coming undone, while those who've contributed the most to fucking up the planet will be able to buy their way into maintaining some semblance of comfort and normality regardless.
    Last edited by Lethe; 20-08-2014 at 10:16 AM.

  11. #31
    Secondary Hivemind Nexus rockman29's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by lordcooper View Post
    Stop picking on Squirrel. The poor chap is in a Chinese government facility somewhere with electrodes strapped to his gonads. It's the only logical explanation for his posting history.
    Lol.

    Chap is being too nice. Maybe more like a monkey?
    They have to reject religion and corruption.
    I think in general this is a symptom of monocultures/being less multicultural/diverse.

    My theory is it's easier for populists and opportunists to be corrupt in a monoculture environment.
    Last edited by rockman29; 20-08-2014 at 02:47 PM.

  12. #32
    Secondary Hivemind Nexus Fanbuoy's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by rockman29 View Post
    I think in general this is a symptom of monocultures/being less multicultural/diverse.

    My theory is it's easier for populists and opportunists to be corrupt in a monoculture environment.
    How so? The Nordic region has been quite heavily monocultural until recently. Yet we have the lowest corruption in the world (4 of the top 5 nations in the most recent corruption perception index are Nordic). Sure, any rule has exceptions, but do you have anything to support your theory?

  13. #33
    Secondary Hivemind Nexus Zephro's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Fanbuoy View Post
    How so? The Nordic region has been quite heavily monocultural until recently. Yet we have the lowest corruption in the world (4 of the top 5 nations in the most recent corruption perception index are Nordic). Sure, any rule has exceptions, but do you have anything to support your theory?
    http://www.transparency.org/cpi2013/results

    There doesn't seem to be a terribly good correlation there at all. The lowest scorers Sudan, South Sudan, Somalia are all recent victims of ethnic genocides/wars. The top rankers of Nordic, NZ and Canada are more monoculture, except yknow all the Maori. Qatar is 28 though so it doesn't seem a very high barrier really.

    Latin America is a cultural shift away from being some first world thing.

    They have to reject religion and corruption.

    If they become pure rationalist countries efficient run, they will excel at this shit we call economy.
    Right assuming this isn't a joke, apologies if it is. South America is not where it is due to culture and corruption (or religion? Hello the US and various middle eastern oil oligarchs want a word). They don't actually rank much differently to the USA, which I'm assuming is what the shit we call economy actually is. South America is where it is for very simple reasons to do with Imperialism of the European and US variety. They've been largely kept in a situation where industrialisation is difficult due to the nature of foreign investment being mostly for primary resources to be manufactured abroad, with most of the capital investment being owned elsewhere.

    The "West" maintains it's relative advantage due to the same economic forces, e.g. we own all the capital still so can control what gets built where and even what government policies are enacted to a degree. The only real exceptions to this ever were the communist countries as they're capable of just giving a big fuck off to international capital, though only while they have an internal market which is large enough, which is similar to how the US industrialised despite Europeans owning the majority of capital at the time.

  14. #34
    Secondary Hivemind Nexus Fanbuoy's Avatar
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    Then again, Argentina (which is what started this discussion) used to be one of the richest countries on the planet. So saying that they are where they are because of foreign capital issues is probably not the whole truth. I'd say that corruption is definitely one of the main factors behind its decline. That and political turmoil, which is never good. Both of which naturally decrease the amount of capital that foreigners are willing to invest. Also, most of what made Argentina wealthy back in the day was natural resources, which gave the impression that industrialization was probably not as urgent as it was for many other nations.

    The thing with many of these (relatively!) young nations is that they simply didn't have the institutions necessary to compete with the old world. Solid institutions, while it may seem a bit boring, is one of the absolute key factors for success.

    Also, sorry if this seems a bit disjointed, incomprehensible or simply false. I may be a wee bit tipsy. Toodles!

  15. #35
    Secondary Hivemind Nexus Tikey's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Fanbuoy View Post
    Then again, Argentina (which is what started this discussion) used to be one of the richest countries on the planet. So saying that they are where they are because of foreign capital issues is probably not the whole truth. I'd say that corruption is definitely one of the main factors behind its decline. That and political turmoil, which is never good. Both of which naturally decrease the amount of capital that foreigners are willing to invest. Also, most of what made Argentina wealthy back in the day was natural resources, which gave the impression that industrialization was probably not as urgent as it was for many other nations.

    The thing with many of these (relatively!) young nations is that they simply didn't have the institutions necessary to compete with the old world. Solid institutions, while it may seem a bit boring, is one of the absolute key factors for success.

    Also, sorry if this seems a bit disjointed, incomprehensible or simply false. I may be a wee bit tipsy. Toodles!
    Well, having several military dictatorships during a century doesn't help much. Specially taking into account how those dictatorships usually supported foreign interests over their own country's.
    But yes, the agricultural oligarchy was never fond of the idea of industrialization so every project was met with heavy resistance and sabotage. The typical story of the rich fucking over the rest.
    I don't want to get into a heavy historical review as it might end up being long and depressing for me.
    Last edited by Tikey; 21-08-2014 at 12:44 AM.

  16. #36
    Secondary Hivemind Nexus rockman29's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Fanbuoy View Post
    How so? The Nordic region has been quite heavily monocultural until recently. Yet we have the lowest corruption in the world (4 of the top 5 nations in the most recent corruption perception index are Nordic). Sure, any rule has exceptions, but do you have anything to support your theory?
    Mainly thought about countries in Latin America, Middle East, and Asia. With specific examples I think this a lot about India and China, and same with Latin American countries.

    Some things I read about like the one town in China forcing its school children to give blood (this was recent) for about 6 months, until one pupil finally told his parents. I never imagine that happening in EU and Canada/USA or at least much less likely. But I do very much imagine that happening in a country like India or China. I feel like in a diverse community there is more chance for a small subset of a group to question what the majority or other minorities are doing.

    This is not to say it's a rule like you're saying, or that there can be no exceptions. Just a sort of general observation. For some reason I feel that the free transfer of people of different backgrounds between countries, like EU has so easily between many countries, I feel that is an extremely positive thing and encourages tolerance and fairness.

    My observation in life in general... most of us in school in Canada always make jokes about minorities. But that's because everyone in our schools was a minority, so if you wanted to join in on that you had to be able to laugh at your own background as well lol. There was no dominant culture of people. And that was awesome I think, because it kind of forces everyone to get along.

    For some reason I just feel that a monoculture in the sense of "everyone is this religion/believes in these superstitions/is appealed to viscerally by these same things" it kind of gives a situation possibly that allows someone appealing to those things to go all populist and take advantage.

    These are not perfect examples, but just to name some off the top of my head: When I think of Egypt I think of the military trying to destroy the Muslim Brotherhood (not that it is so simple, not trying to say that). And when I think of Iraq I think of Sunni versus Shia versus Christian (and we can see how well that turns out). And when I think of India I think of many people who don't like Pakistan, or constant strain between Hindu and Muslim. And when I think of Japan I think of many people who don't like China, and the same in reverse. And when I think of Japan I also think of very rigid and defined social rules and a country not very friendly to foreigners.

    I guess when diverse people of different backgrounds are together... at least in my mind... then they can all call each other out on the stupid stuff they might have carried over from old world thinking or something? I guess my best examples would be India and China, in my mind at least. The opportunity for corruption and willingness of people in control to bend rules for personal benefit... it seems rampant. What allows this... I think monoculture/common thinking is part of it.

    I don't say it's impossible for a monoculture/very not diverse society to be rich and fair and tolerant though. It just seems easier to motivate a large number of people of one group into one direction if they are all the same kind of background, with similar underlying prejudices possibly. I think diversity invites more questioning into "what is normal/acceptable." And I think that's positive in general.

    The top rankers of Nordic, NZ and Canada are more monoculture, except yknow all the Maori. Qatar is 28 though so it doesn't seem a very high barrier really.
    Canada is monoculture (untrue in some areas), but extremely diverse within those monocultures. Including it within a subset to call it similar in demographics to a Nordic country or NZ is highly misleading. 50% of the population (possibly more or less, this is the last statistic I've heard for the city of Toronto district) in and around Toronto is born outside of Canada.

    It's not that NZ is not diverse, but it's not diverse to the same degree and most of the immigration population to NZ is from (relatively) nearby and surrounding countries. Same with countries like Singapore, huge populations of Indian and Chinese people, Malaysians... not many other people at all.

    Gloating time.... three Canadian cities landed on the top 10 greatest places to live apparently on "some list": http://www.thestar.com/business/2014...p_10_list.html

    Melbourne Australia took the cake at the top, and 4 australian cities in total :P
    Last edited by rockman29; 21-08-2014 at 03:12 AM.

  17. #37
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    Did you just describe India as a monoculture? I think I need one of those facepalm/epic fail GIFs. India is one of the most diverse countries in the world.

    EDIT: here's one study on comparative cultural diversity...

    Pew Research
    The usual suspects lead the list of culturally diverse countries: Chad, Cameroon, Nigeria, Togo and the Democratic Republic of the Congo. These and other African countries typically rank high on any diversity index because of their multitude of tribal groups and languages. The only western country to break into the top 20 most diverse is Canada. The United States ranks near the middle, slightly more diverse than Russia but slightly less diverse than Spain.
    Last edited by Lethe; 21-08-2014 at 04:15 AM.

  18. #38
    Secondary Hivemind Nexus rockman29's Avatar
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    India is a monoculture in the sense of corruption, to me personally, as an Indian person... whether you are from the North or South, there is a common feature: the system can be cheated at any level with even just a little greasing the wheels with cash, to a degree most people don't really appreciate. There are a lot of reasons why India is so inefficient. The prevalence of corruption and country-wide attitudes of "don't worry friend, it'll be alright, just do this this for me friend" doesn't help.

    In terms of ethnic and linguistic and religious practices and such differences, yea, it's probably one of the most diverse countries in the world. 1400 dialects *at least.* North is different from north east is different from south is different from central. There's everything from more common Hindu to Punjabi to Guju to Buddhist to Zoroastrian to etc etc etc. The list goes on forever.

    In terms of behaviour that results in corruption... that's a little more common to the entire country. Virtually all have common systems of caste, especially rural India which is the vast majority of the population. Light skinned Indians are the public face of India and dominate in politics/caste systems.... while most others get shut out. There are a lot of problems I would call endemic to the entire country, even if in many terms there is a broad set of cultures, there are some features common to virtually all of them.

    If we're talking about India, we're talking about a country where there are still many occasions of people buying houses from realtors.... and then still not owning them until they pay excesses in "tax" to whoever happens to really have control of whatever place. And a country in which there are politicians in office convicted of rape. And a country in which 40% of food rots in storage because of corruption in transportation. And a country in which you can still straight-up buy some diplomas. They don't make low-budget Bollywood movies on these topics because it doesn't happen... it's a very, very corrupt country, and these are issues common to the entire country, despite the ethnic diversity. Less so in some areas though.

    Again, it was thinking out loud and simply thoughts for the sake of it. But.... I guess it's not a good idea to do that here.

    Very interesting article you pointed out though. As well though, it does note differences in interpretation of what diversity means depending on the analyses which may favour certain aspects more than others, like linguistic differences (see last paragraph). In the same sense, there can be some difficulty in defining cultural diversity between countries using objective measures, as different countries might be diverse in very different ways, as is the case in the disagreement on where they place Brazil between those two analyses they mention.


    P.S.

    Canada is also mostly a monoculture (in certain definitions). Toronto likes to use this term "multicultural" but it is a misnomer, at least as far as what professors/universities/the like consider multicultural. Toronto is diverse, not multicultural (again... in certain definitions).

    Multicultural in one definition is multiple groups of persons in the same geographic area which follow different customs and laws. Which does not define Canada, and to some of those professor types Canada is not multicultural (I agree with them). But yea, Canada is very diverse.

    In India, the term multicultural is probably much more apt, when considering the many customs, languages, ethnic groups. In terms of the political climate and sentiment towards domestic issues and corruption though, I would not say India is very diverse in that sense.
    Last edited by rockman29; 21-08-2014 at 08:34 AM.

  19. #39
    Moderator QuantaCat's Avatar
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    the only thing that needs to be abolished is hereditary debt.
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  20. #40
    Secondary Hivemind Nexus Heliocentric's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by QuantaCat View Post
    the only thing that needs to be abolished is hereditary debt.
    Except where people have no hereditary assets too. Otherwise rich people can diving tackle down their debt by dying but their assets are handed on.
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