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  1. #21
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    I grew up reading Tom Clancy and Dale Brown novels -- techno-war thrillers. At one point, for English class (age 13/14), we were tasked with writing a generic short story. Mine, of course, drew heavily on my techno-war reading background. It involved Russian Tu-22M Backfires escorted by MiG-29 Fulcrums attacking Turkey, which was defended by NATO F-16s. It must've been a decent effort, because it was the only story the teacher read out to the class.

    But however pleased he may have been with the story, I suspect he was concerned that I was developing an overly narrow, sanitised or otherwise lopsided view of war. Shortly afterwards, he gave me a copy of Robert Mason's Chickenhawk to read, a memoir of the author's time as a helicopter pilot in the Vietnam War. At the time I remember finding it simultaneously hilarious and tragic. Looking back, I think Chickenhawk marked an inflection point in my global-political outlook, and the beginning of a decade-long drift to the left.
    Last edited by Lethe; 18-08-2014 at 04:29 AM.

  2. #22
    Moderator QuantaCat's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Squiz View Post
    But what would Squirrel then use for his next sensationalist headline? D:
    best response, would +1
    - Tom De Roeck.

    verse publications

    "Quantacat's name is still recognised even if he watches on with detached eyes like Peter Molyneux over a cube in 3D space, staring at it with tears in his eyes, softly whispering... Someday they'll get it."

    "It's frankly embarrassing. The mods on here are woeful."

    "I wrinkled my nose at QC being a mod."

    "At least he has some personality."

  3. #23
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    Quote Originally Posted by Heliocentric View Post
    But the flooding world, which keeps progressively getting more inhospitable upset my son (then aged 8 or 9), essentially he didn't get a do over, he couldn't save, go back to a checkpoint or reverse his mistakes, he was just progressively getting in deeper and deeper water (literally and figuratively). Its quite stressful when you frame it in that context.
    I'm seriously thinking of banning DOTA (and just about every other MP game) for that exact same reason with my 8 year old brother... 24 year old brother... no go with the former! ;)
    It is a technical difference, but's there none the less.

  4. #24
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    I'm sure that letting 8 years old kid play online game where typical "conversation" is like "ur mom is whore" isn't a wise move.


    he couldn't save, go back to a checkpoint or reverse his mistakes
    Sounds like most of NES games. :d

  5. #25
    Secondary Hivemind Nexus Heliocentric's Avatar
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    NES games had extra lives.
    I'm failing to writing a blog, specifically about playing games the wrong way
    http://playingitwrong.wordpress.com/

  6. #26
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    Stop tryiing to repress our hunter insticts!

    Young guys want to play war games, is on their DNA. Theres nothing bad with that.

  7. #27
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    Quote Originally Posted by Tei View Post
    Young guys want to play war games [....] Theres nothing bad with that.
    How do you know?

  8. #28
    Secondary Hivemind Nexus SirKicksalot's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Lethe View Post
    But however pleased he may have been with the story, I suspect he was concerned that I was developing an overly narrow, sanitised or otherwise lopsided view of war. Shortly afterwards, he gave me a copy of Robert Mason's Chickenhawk to read, a memoir of the author's time as a helicopter pilot in the Vietnam War. At the time I remember finding it simultaneously hilarious and tragic. Looking back, I think Chickenhawk marked an inflection point in my global-political outlook, and the beginning of a decade-long drift to the left.
    He should have given you Dick Marcinko's Rogue Warrior. Manliest book ever written.

  9. #29
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    Quote Originally Posted by Heliocentric View Post
    Oh, I did eventually. But the flooding world, which keeps progressively getting more inhospitable upset my son (then aged 8 or 9), essentially he didn't get a do over, he couldn't save, go back to a checkpoint or reverse his mistakes, he was just progressively getting in deeper and deeper water (literally and figuratively). Its quite stressful when you frame it in that context, after my son playing it I returned to it and thought of it as a survival horror. And it actually works better than most so called "horror" games, the sea is coming and it will wash everything away unless you stop it.
    Ah okay, All I recalled from that game was some super laid back gameplay and then the total halt of my computer to function as soon as I tried to do some of the physics things.

  10. #30
    Secondary Hivemind Nexus rockman29's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Tei View Post
    Stop tryiing to repress our hunter insticts!

    Young guys want to play war games, is on their DNA. Theres nothing bad with that.
    I think there are too many factors involved to say that.

    Not that competition or some other fancies are not part of the DNA, but disagree there's nothing bad about it. Maybe that very excitement is contributing heavily to the acceptance of war in many different societies, who knows.

    This article I posted in another thread: http://www.bbc.com/news/magazine-27903827

    It is an excellent read and illustrates the attitude of young people towards real war. It does not address the issue so we know everything that must be done, but it highlights an attitude of young people that might motivate them to join a war. Misunderstanding of the gravity or seriousness of war might play a part. What's more interesting is what stories they want to tell and how soldiers describe comraderie and their difficulty speaking about war with soldiers or journalists who never enter the front.

    The article is primarily about one journalist and his experiences with war in the Middle East, his interactions with soldiers briefly, and how these are surprisingly common to an artists changing perception of war as a machine into something entirely different and more (in)humane from World War 1..... most died from infection though, I'm not sure how well illustrated that is in war paintings from WW1, I'm not so familiar with the topic. But bonus points to whoever can name the organism that caused a certain "fever" and killed many soldiers on all fronts in WW1.

    What I find suspicious is that there is a suggestion that this is a new phenomenon, and videogames are a major culprit. I am not certain of it's contribution to angry men's anger, but to say that videogames are the major culprit in socially engineering people to accept violence is silly.

    There is war and excitement over war for centuries and millenia and human behaviour and social engineering through many other facets of life, maybe religion, maybe prejudice, maybe hatred for "the other", maybe for revenge, maybe for blood lust, maybe greed for power, and many other things are much more frightening to me than videogames.

    Though there is part of me that does not like the setting of videogames in places of real current conflicts as action games. Maybe in simulation games it's more acceptable? Maybe not? But I'm personally not a fan of that. I do hope games move away from mimicking global conflicts as their "hook" feature. I think it is at the very least in poor taste for companies to capitalize on the current world affairs situations in the Middle East like that where people are in real life and death situations. It is just mimickry, but I think that is still taking advantage of the situation. I can say it is in poor taste, but I can't stop them, but I won't buy their games because of it.

    On the other hand I'd be happy to support a game where I can shoot Helghast in the face or throw Stormtroopers off their speeder bikes and stuff :)

    P.S.

    Talking with children is the best IMO. The next sensational topic is "how do you discuss safe sex/alcohol/drugs with older kids and teens without make yourself uncomfortable" or something I bet.

    Answer: just do it, and nicely.
    Last edited by rockman29; 20-08-2014 at 12:35 AM.

  11. #31
    Secondary Hivemind Nexus Bankrotas's Avatar
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    I don't really think, I would like my children to be pacifists. I don't have any, but I don't want my nephews to be pacifists either. I want them to be assholes, who can see reason and value a human life, but don't expect that world to be only flowers and peaches (hell, I don't know the expression in my own native languages).
    Isn't it better way to learn to love human life than learn to fear, what is used to take it away. In the end, it's not the tool, but the user of the tool, who takes away life.
    On teaching about the war. You can't really, it's something, that is horrible beyond comprehension. And without experiencing it first hand, how can you teach you actually don't comprehend?

    Quote Originally Posted by GameCat View Post
    I'm sure that letting 8 years old kid play online game where typical "conversation" is like "ur mom is whore" isn't a wise move.
    That typical conversation is usually led by other 8-13 year olds...
    Hear from the spirit-world this mystery:
    Creation is summed up, O man, in thee;
    Angel and demon, man and beast art thou,
    Yea, thou art all thou dost appear to be!
    http://ps2guides.besaba.com/

  12. #32
    Secondary Hivemind Nexus Wenz's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by GameCat View Post
    I'm sure that letting 8 years old kid play online game where typical "conversation" is like "ur mom is whore" isn't a wise move.
    It's the power of friendship at test in Left 4 afk (or any team based odyssey).
    Last edited by Wenz; 22-08-2014 at 08:40 AM.
    post in progress

  13. #33
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    Me thinks *taps his fedora* that one can easily confond two distinct topics: war and violence. Of course, both include each other. What's important in my view, however, is that war is a political term and consequently it bears a much bigger meaning, it contains many topics. Teaching your kids about those topics is extremely essential, only that I'm not sure how because politics ain't easy.

    Violence, on the other hand, is what Bankrotas is rather having in mind if I understand him right. My stance on this is: you don't have to be a bully in order to defend yourself from bullies.

  14. #34
    Secondary Hivemind Nexus Heliocentric's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Goodtwist View Post
    Violence, on the other hand, is what Bankrotas is rather having in mind if I understand him right. My stance on this is: you don't have to be a bully in order to defend yourself from bullies.
    Unless the bullies operate without oversight of law, terrorists and such.
    I'm failing to writing a blog, specifically about playing games the wrong way
    http://playingitwrong.wordpress.com/

  15. #35
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    Quote Originally Posted by Heliocentric View Post
    Unless the bullies operate without oversight of law, terrorists and such.
    Guantanamo bay?
    PS2/NS2/Mumble: SirWigglyBottom
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    Bread?

  16. #36
    Secondary Hivemind Nexus Heliocentric's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by pepper View Post
    Guantanamo bay?
    You just proved my point.
    I'm failing to writing a blog, specifically about playing games the wrong way
    http://playingitwrong.wordpress.com/

  17. #37
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    War is the biggest crimes of all

    Guantanamo bay is a Concentration Camp, operated by USA, where they torture people

  18. #38
    Secondary Hivemind Nexus Heliocentric's Avatar
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    They aren't people, if they were people they'd have human rights. They are detainees.
    I'm failing to writing a blog, specifically about playing games the wrong way
    http://playingitwrong.wordpress.com/

  19. #39
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    Quote Originally Posted by Heliocentric View Post
    They aren't people, if they were people they'd have human rights. They are detainees.
    9,032 posts you've produced untill now and I really hope not all of them are such rubbish.

    edit: I give in to the benefit of doubt and presume that you were just sarcastic - in this case I apologise for not getting your point.
    Last edited by Goodtwist; 23-08-2014 at 08:51 AM. Reason: hindsight

  20. #40
    Lesser Hivemind Node Wheelz's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Goodtwist View Post
    9,032 posts you've produced untill now and I really hope not all of them are such rubbish.
    woooooosh!

    That was the sound of you missing it.

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