Page 1 of 2 12 LastLast
Results 1 to 20 of 24
  1. #1
    Secondary Hivemind Nexus Heliocentric's Avatar
    Join Date
    Jun 2011
    Posts
    9,821

    The Skill Density Thread (because search function is for carebears)

    Fend, Guard, Sidestep, Block, Dodge* and MB are skills it seems hard too have much of†, it seems the utility gets greater with each player. Whereas Jugga, Kick, KOR, Dauntless, Stripball and HMP seem to be skills I struggle to justify taking more than once.

    I was really wondering about the skills that drift between, or rather peoples perceptions of them. How many tacklers do you aim for, is that different if you are playing as Elves or Chaos. What about odd utility skills like stand firm and grab (more for the S access team) or (wrestle as a block substitute) Oddly I'm finding the more Jump up I have the more indispensable I find it‡.

    I know Screwie had an experiment with pro spam with his DElves which slowly imploded when stats and doubles were too tempting but on paper pro seems such a delicious skill to stack high. I've been adopting it because of my jump up Nurgle's because its not a turn over event but goodness me is it a nervous feeling refusing a regular reroll for a pro roll.

    *Yunno, unless you are facing dwarves.
    †My Open Orcs hitting 9 guard doesn't make me want less guard players.
    ‡Addiction? You decide.
    Last edited by Heliocentric; 21-08-2014 at 12:17 AM.
    I'm failing to writing a blog, specifically about playing games the wrong way
    http://playingitwrong.wordpress.com/

  2. #2
    Secondary Hivemind Nexus Screwie's Avatar
    Join Date
    Jun 2011
    Location
    Swansea
    Posts
    3,224
    Quote Originally Posted by Heliocentric View Post
    I know Screwie had an experiment with pro spam with his DElves which slowly imploded when stats and doubles were too tempting but on paper pro seems such a delicious skill to stack high.
    Dark Elves have too many strong skill picks to fit Pro in, especially blitzers and runners who I wish could have ten skill picks each. Which is sad as runners and blitzers could both benefit nicely from it.

    I came to the conclusion that Pro en masse works best on bashy sides with less flexible roles. I've had fun with Pro Orcs in particular.

    However I did find with my DElfs that Shadowing and Pass Block both work very nicely in large numbers. :D Although a PB commitment is hard to justify simply because it relies your oppponent doing one thing that many teams simply will never do.

  3. #3
    Network Hub frenz0rz's Avatar
    Join Date
    Jun 2011
    Location
    Chelmsford, England
    Posts
    405
    Quote Originally Posted by Screwie View Post
    However I did find with my DElfs that Shadowing and Pass Block both work very nicely in large numbers.
    I'd take Shadowing far more often on a team like DElfs if it actually worked as intended when combined with Diving Tackle.

    I'm sure I've mentioned this elsewhere but as it stands the game seems hard-coded to ask to roll for DT before rolling for Shadowing, rather than the opposite. As a result, when DT fails your player falls over and you can't use Shadowing; when DT succeeds their player falls over and you can't use Shadowing. The only way to use Shadowing in this scenario is to disable DT entirely, thereby rendering it useless as a skill.

    The intended combination, of course, is to use Shadowing first and if that fails and your opponent tries to dodge away, you choose to invoke DT.

    As it stands, given the choice between the two I'd take DT any day, perhaps with the exception of very high movement players like Gutter Runners where I'd go for Shadowing instead. Both would be great (and works superbly on tabletop), but Cyanide...


    Oh, and Helio mentioned Grab? It's brilliant on players with Multiple Block who can't follow up but want to maintain base contact. I could see a case for spamming it on a well-developed Ogre team... if there were such a thing!
    Last edited by frenz0rz; 21-08-2014 at 05:53 PM.
    I occasionally write things on this website. You can read these things by clicking this thing:
    www.teamsao.com

  4. #4
    Lesser Hivemind Node 20phoenix's Avatar
    Join Date
    Mar 2012
    Location
    Cardiff
    Posts
    862
    Quote Originally Posted by frenz0rz View Post
    on a well-developed Ogre team... if there were such a thing!
    Watch this space......
    Global Warping (Skaven) - RPS Divisions of Death Champions Seasons 34-36

  5. #5
    Network Hub Axler's Avatar
    Join Date
    Nov 2011
    Posts
    221
    My rule of thumb is that the more of an all rounder the player is the more usefull Pro is

    Orc Blitzers, Elf blitzers (all types), Werewolves etc.

    I do like to have one of certain combinations on my teams also.

    Wrestle, Tackle, Grab (for the removal of blodge sidesteppers)
    Block, Dodge, Tackle, Diving Tackle
    Catch, Nerves of Steel, leap.
    Block, Mighty Blow, Claw, Piling On

  6. #6
    Secondary Hivemind Nexus Heliocentric's Avatar
    Join Date
    Jun 2011
    Posts
    9,821
    Ooh, multi grab nice. Not bad for a beast of nurgle.
    I'm failing to writing a blog, specifically about playing games the wrong way
    http://playingitwrong.wordpress.com/

  7. #7
    Secondary Hivemind Nexus Screwie's Avatar
    Join Date
    Jun 2011
    Location
    Swansea
    Posts
    3,224
    Quote Originally Posted by frenz0rz View Post
    I'd take Shadowing far more often on a team like DElfs if it actually worked as intended when combined with Diving Tackle.

    I'm sure I've mentioned this elsewhere but as it stands the game seems hard-coded to ask to roll for DT before rolling for Shadowing, rather than the opposite. As a result, when DT fails your player falls over and you can't use Shadowing; when DT succeeds their player falls over and you can't use Shadowing. The only way to use Shadowing in this scenario is to disable DT entirely, thereby rendering it useless as a skill.

    The intended combination, of course, is to use Shadowing first and if that fails and your opponent tries to dodge away, you choose to invoke DT.

    As it stands, given the choice between the two I'd take DT any day, perhaps with the exception of very high movement players like Gutter Runners where I'd go for Shadowing instead. Both would be great (and works superbly on tabletop), but Cyanide...
    Yeah this bugs me so much, I've mentioned it on the forums in the past. Worst of all it is a bug that only came into the game recently (around the time they moved servers iirc) - it worked in the right order at launch!

    With the bug as it stands I take Shadowing/Diving Tackle as an either/or proposition on my DElfs. I take one or the other, never both on a single elf. (MA7+ required for Shadowing, too.)
    Last edited by Screwie; 21-08-2014 at 10:10 PM.

  8. #8
    Secondary Hivemind Nexus Heliocentric's Avatar
    Join Date
    Jun 2011
    Posts
    9,821
    MA6 Kroxigor prehensile tail shadowing is still hilarious when it works.
    I'm failing to writing a blog, specifically about playing games the wrong way
    http://playingitwrong.wordpress.com/

  9. #9
    Network Hub frenz0rz's Avatar
    Join Date
    Jun 2011
    Location
    Chelmsford, England
    Posts
    405
    Quote Originally Posted by Heliocentric View Post
    MA6 Kroxigor prehensile tail shadowing is still hilarious when it works.
    Christ, that's a shout.

    Not sure I'd have the guts to pass up block/pro/tackle/dodge on a big guy though.
    I occasionally write things on this website. You can read these things by clicking this thing:
    www.teamsao.com

  10. #10
    Activated Node Rumpel's Avatar
    Join Date
    Feb 2013
    Location
    Newcastle,UK
    Posts
    46
    Quote Originally Posted by Heliocentric View Post
    Ooh, multi grab nice. Not bad for a beast of nurgle.


    it works well ^^
    Attached Images Attached Images

  11. #11
    Network Hub frenz0rz's Avatar
    Join Date
    Jun 2011
    Location
    Chelmsford, England
    Posts
    405
    Quote Originally Posted by Rumpel View Post

    it works well ^^
    I hate that sodding thing.
    I occasionally write things on this website. You can read these things by clicking this thing:
    www.teamsao.com

  12. #12
    Secondary Hivemind Nexus sinister agent's Avatar
    Join Date
    Jun 2011
    Posts
    1,120
    I like grab a lot, it's great for creating space. I kind of think it should be usable on a blitz though, its utility is too limited otherwise - you'll want it on markers or roadblocks, who opposition will generally be able to avoid on the teams likely to use it much (e.g. lizards).

    I kind of think it's a major skill for ogres, as they have no general access and their whole team is slow. Sure, snotlings are the best dodgers around, but no dodge is better than a 35/36 dodge, and you can use it to feed players to other Ogres. Plus a Guard-Grab Ogre by your side is about as safe as a snotling can get. Put two together and you can even put a snotling on the LOS, and/or play tennis with theirs.

  13. #13
    Lesser Hivemind Node cyberpunkdreams's Avatar
    Join Date
    Mar 2012
    Location
    Cambridge, UK
    Posts
    944
    You can't have too much sidestep. Fact.
    My Arsenal of Democracy AAR: The British Empire
    Seeking alpha testers for a StoryNexus cyberpunk RPG.

  14. #14
    Secondary Hivemind Nexus sinister agent's Avatar
    Join Date
    Jun 2011
    Posts
    1,120
    I'd go along with that. I always tell myself "nah, sidestep's not THAT useful", and then I play as snotlings - the squishiest players in the game - and it's bloody brilliant. If they can make it work, anyone can.

  15. #15
    Lesser Hivemind Node
    Join Date
    Jun 2011
    Posts
    561
    Grab is fab for murdering side stepping elves. Also handy for 1 turn touchdowns.

    It's an unexpected skill.

  16. #16
    Secondary Hivemind Nexus
    Join Date
    Apr 2012
    Posts
    1,440
    Frenzy is underrated as a bash skill, particularly for elf teams with no MB access.

    Aside from the surfing potential, it increases your chance of depitching the opposing player by 55-75% (for comparison MB approximately doubles it). It is also more effective than tackle for taking down dodge players.

    I would always take frenzy on an elf blitzer.

  17. #17
    Lesser Hivemind Node 20phoenix's Avatar
    Join Date
    Mar 2012
    Location
    Cardiff
    Posts
    862
    Quote Originally Posted by Everblue View Post
    It is also more effective than tackle for taking down dodge players.
    Where are you getting that from? A 2D frenzy hit on a blodge player takes down the blodger 51% of the time, the tackler without frenzy takes him down 55% of the time. Or do you mean just dodge by itself?
    Global Warping (Skaven) - RPS Divisions of Death Champions Seasons 34-36

  18. #18
    Secondary Hivemind Nexus Heliocentric's Avatar
    Join Date
    Jun 2011
    Posts
    9,821
    With dodge rather than bodge the 'psudeo-reroll' of frenzy probably wins out when BD is a valid takedown.
    Last edited by Heliocentric; 01-09-2014 at 07:35 PM.
    I'm failing to writing a blog, specifically about playing games the wrong way
    http://playingitwrong.wordpress.com/

  19. #19
    Secondary Hivemind Nexus
    Join Date
    Apr 2012
    Posts
    1,440
    Quote Originally Posted by 20phoenix View Post
    Where are you getting that from? A 2D frenzy hit on a blodge player takes down the blodger 51% of the time, the tackler without frenzy takes him down 55% of the time. Or do you mean just dodge by itself?
    51.8% actually :)

    But yes, I was talking about dodgers not blodgers - tackle is a whole 3.2% better at taking out blodgers. The poor frenzy player has to cope with being superior at taking out every other class of player (including wrodgers) and carrying the surfing threat.

  20. #20
    Secondary Hivemind Nexus
    Join Date
    Apr 2012
    Posts
    1,440
    I should say that I don't like frenzy so much on AG3 players - the risk of getting stuck next to your opponent is too high. I do love it on elves though.

Posting Permissions

  • You may not post new threads
  • You may not post replies
  • You may not post attachments
  • You may not edit your posts
  •