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  1. #101
    Secondary Hivemind Nexus Drake Sigar's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by SuddenSight View Post
    The light of truth
    When you’re a kid and politicians, teachers, parents, and classmates are all telling your associating with something natural or harmless is shameful and vile, your choices are thus:

    1. Give up being a homosexu- I mean give up your hobby.
    2. Accept the world hates you, grow up to be a psychopath
    3. Make it an identity.

    Number 3 was a survival mechanism. And while some are quick to dismiss the word ‘gamer’, I prefer to keep it around as a monument to mass ignorance, and a reminder to not fall into the same pit whenever confronted by something new I don’t quite understand.
    Last edited by Drake Sigar; 03-09-2014 at 11:28 AM.

  2. #102
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    Quote Originally Posted by Zephro View Post
    While true of parts, I would say that particular criticism of the movement has come from within.
    It has, but as laudable as the movement towards 'intersectional' feminism is, you can't change the nature of the beast. Gender is merely one of the ways humanity is divided and along which various injustices propagate, and the only people for whom it is the defining issue -- the framework through which all things should be examined -- are those who have little else to worry about, e.g. educated middle-class white women.

  3. #103
    Secondary Hivemind Nexus Zephro's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Lethe View Post
    It has, but you can't change the nature of the beast. Gender is merely one of the ways humanity is divided and along which various injustices propagate, and the only people for whom it is the defining issue -- the framework through which all things should be examined -- are those who have little else to worry about, e.g. educated middle-class white women.
    Hmmmm that is true of it being a defining issue for them. I think just because other women don't care as much because they're busier doesn't invalidate it being a vital issue of equality. I think the movement is changing generally to become quite less myopic, all the early stuff about "fourth wave" if that is even a thing yet, has been about a more socialist and less individualist (neo-liberal lite) version. Anyway I don't think it's irredeemable.

    Though i do know what you mean as I have spent many evenings at feminist bake sales or women in the arts nights just wondering what the fuck is the point.

  4. #104
    Moderator QuantaCat's Avatar
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    For me SJW just sounds like forum warrior, which is the stupidest thing ever. shouty people find shouty forums.
    - Tom De Roeck.

    verse publications & The Shopkeeper, an interactive short.

    "Quantacat's name is still recognised even if he watches on with detached eyes like Peter Molyneux over a cube in 3D space, staring at it with tears in his eyes, softly whispering... Someday they'll get it."

  5. #105
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    Quote Originally Posted by Lethe View Post
    the only people for whom it is the defining issue -- the framework through which all things should be examined -- are those who have little else to worry about, e.g. educated middle-class white women.
    I disagree with this. In fact, it's almost the opposite situation: For many of the least-privileged women in the world, it's solely their gender exposing them to violence (domestic and otherwise), denying them an education, or leaving them destitute should something happen to their husbands (or should the husbands decide to leave them). Even in societies that are overall very poor, the difference between a hard but not hopeless life and one of misery is chromosomal. And many of the things harming globally poor women (e.g. lack of political representation, limited access to health care, and a justice system that doesn't take domestic and sexual violence seriously) are the very same things harming otherwise privileged women in the developed world.
    And anyway, doesn't every social justice movement target some single form or set of related forms of oppression? After all, class only matters to those who have little else to worry about, e.g. educated white men; and race only matters to educated middle-class black men; and sexual orientation only matters...etc.

  6. #106
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    Quote Originally Posted by RARARA View Post
    For some reason whenever someone uses the word 'gamer', the first image that always pops up in my head is the Modern Warfare 2 boycott member list.

    Are you Leigh Alexander?

  7. #107
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    Quote Originally Posted by Zephro View Post
    SJW isn't a thing that exists. Nobody who actually want to change society is going around calling themselves that, it's a derisive term used by others to insult activists. If it did exist and just meant someone who actively strived for a just society, then feminists would probably be that, I guess except the lazy ones who just wish it to happen but not do anything.
    This is untrue only in so much that it is true. "SJW" was made as a term for nasty people to call those who aren't nasty, but some have started willingly associating with it as a way to basically stick their tongue out at the nasty side of the internet. I've seen a friend be called a SJW because they refused to talk to somebody who openly identified as a nazi, complete with nazi iconography on their blog - and at that point, it's hard not to see it as a compliment, even if it's not meant in that way.

  8. #108
    Secondary Hivemind Nexus Zephro's Avatar
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    Well indeed and it's incredibly annoying that SJW is sneaking it's way into the patois of the internet.

  9. #109
    Secondary Hivemind Nexus somini's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Zephro View Post
    Well indeed and it's incredibly annoying that SJW is sneaking it's way into the patois of the internet.
    It's just nerd all over again. Except opposite.

    EDIT: Also, I had never seen the word "patois" written before. Only in the spoken word, which in Portugal means not jargon but the kind of talk used car salesman use to sell wrecks. This has been this post's episode of "Etymology in the Derailment of Threads". Tune in next week where splitting infinitives will be taught.
    Last edited by somini; 03-09-2014 at 10:37 PM.
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  10. #110
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    I really don't think it's possible for one group to give another group they hate a new name, be it an insult or a descriptive term, that the other group doesn't end up wearing as a badge of pride in some way.

  11. #111
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    Quote Originally Posted by Zephro View Post
    The point about newspapers is that writers do not owe you or anyone any kind of forum for their opinion.
    Quote Originally Posted by Stellar Duck View Post
    They don't owe you the right to comment.
    Absolutely. I get that, and agree with the sentiment.

    But my point was more to the rather recent views I see expressed by writers where they seemed to be shocked or even mocking of people's frustrations with closed comments. There's a culture of "lol look at the dumb comments" which rubs me up the wrong way a bit, and the comparisons between how we interact on the internet and other forms of media are a complete red herring. I don't personally think it's that crazy that people want to discuss these things. The same impulses that drive writers to talk about these issues drive the people reading to want to voice their feelings, too. No, writers don't have to engage with it, but they shouldn't be so surprised when people get frustrated.

    But then, I say all this with no naivety about how fucking nasty comments can get, and why many writers and sites are just sick and tired of dealing with that shit. And they still, for the most part, leave comments open and wade into that shit on a regular basis.

  12. #112
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    Quote Originally Posted by Karrius View Post
    I really don't think it's possible for one group to give another group they hate a new name, be it an insult or a descriptive term, that the other group doesn't end up wearing as a badge of pride in some way.
    Off the top of my head: In the US, 'liberal'(=center-left) is used as a term of derision by both right-wing and...liberal(=center-left) political figures.

  13. #113
    Secondary Hivemind Nexus gwathdring's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Karrius View Post
    I really don't think it's possible for one group to give another group they hate a new name, be it an insult or a descriptive term, that the other group doesn't end up wearing as a badge of pride in some way.
    I think it is. Slurs succeed at this all the time; some individuals will adopt it as part of their lexicon but there are a couple words I can think of that are not adapted as across-the-board badges of pride. Some of them are forgotten, some are still around, most of them are things I'm not sure I'm supposed to type here even as a matter of academic discourse.

    That said, I think if we redirect an idea at the heart of what you're saying to avoid the clear reality that slurs and labels can hurt and cannot always be reclaimed, we approach something vaguely resembling a quote from The Prince-- by Eleanor Roosevelt: "No one can make you feel inferior without your consent." Of course, it's not literally true; but getting past that knee-jerk acknowledgment takes us some worthwhile places. :)
    Last edited by gwathdring; 04-09-2014 at 08:56 AM.
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  14. #114
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    Quote Originally Posted by somini View Post
    Tune in next week where splitting infinitives will be taught.
    Can we do this this week? I had next week planned for finding a sufficient answer and what it means to Grandi's Series and then discuss the merrits of -1/12.
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    Bread?

  15. #115
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    Quote Originally Posted by Lethe View Post
    It has, but as laudable as the movement towards 'intersectional' feminism is, you can't change the nature of the beast. Gender is merely one of the ways humanity is divided and along which various injustices propagate, and the only people for whom it is the defining issue -- the framework through which all things should be examined -- are those who have little else to worry about, e.g. educated middle-class white women.
    A nice rant along these lines by Laurie Penny recently cropped up on Salon.

    The feminism that has mattered to the media and made magazine headlines in recent years has been the feminism most useful to heterosexual, high-earning middle- and upper-middle-class white women. Public ‘career feminists’ have been more concerned with getting more women into ‘boardrooms’, when the problem is that there are altogether too many boardrooms, and none of them are on fire.


    Of course, there's a neat answer to the article's headline question 'why does mainstream feminism remain so tepid and cowardly?', namely because it is mainstream and it is the essence of such things to reinforce the status quo. But that only goes to reinforce the underlying point, which is that if feminism ever was a genuine force for social liberation, it no longer is today.
    Last edited by Lethe; 14-09-2014 at 10:15 PM.

  16. #116
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    Quote Originally Posted by Lethe View Post
    Of course, there's a neat answer to the article's headline question 'why does mainstream feminism remain so tepid and cowardly?', namely because it is mainstream and it is the essence of such things to reinforce the status quo. But that only goes to reinforce the underlying point, which is that if feminism ever was a genuine force for social liberation, it no longer is today.
    No, it reinforces that the mainstream has never been and will never be a force for social liberation.

  17. #117
    Secondary Hivemind Nexus Grizzly's Avatar
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    Off course the mainstream can never be a force. It's a stream! If you want to leverage power, you need something like the colorado and built a dam in it.

  18. #118
    Secondary Hivemind Nexus Zephro's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Grizzly View Post
    Off course the mainstream can never be a force. It's a stream! If you want to leverage power, you need something like the colorado and built a dam in it.
    hahaha.

    Also great link Lethe. I was going to make some point about capitalism and neo-liberal consensus but I'm too busy laughing at the Minecraft news.

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