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  1. #41
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    Quote Originally Posted by Demiath View Post
    I've booted up quite a few old games and thought instinctually to myself "man, I will never be able to get (back) into this ugly, obtuse and maddeningly complex piece of archaic garbage", but when I decide to stick with it and get over the initial hurdle of (re-)familiarising myself with how the game works I've quite often found that all those initial reservations just melt away.
    It's not so much a change in taste as simply advancement; for most games there's modern equivalents with better UI, better interfaces and often better gameplay. Wizardry is a bad example in many ways; if you had played it on release there's really not much to go back to it for; you know the story already and there's plenty of games which have been released since then that do exactly the same thing with more modern sensibilities (not least of which would be it's sequel).
    Personally I'd pick a few games which pretty much work simply because what they have done has either not been surpassed (Master of Magic), they're unique (Birthright : The Gorgon's Alliance) or because they took a simple concept and pretty much polished it to the point the only real difference is the graphics (Chaos : The Battle of Wizards). Anything else and you can usually find a more modern game doing exactly the same thing without the initial hurdle to overcome. Particularly now that virtually everything is a franchise; not much point going back to SimCity when you could be playing SimCity 4 for example.

  2. #42
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    Which new games do what Wizardry did?

  3. #43
    Lesser Hivemind Node TillEulenspiegel's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by archonsod View Post
    Particularly now that virtually everything is a franchise; not much point going back to SimCity when you could be playing SimCity 4 for example.
    Terrible example. To start with, SimCity and SimCity 2000 are completely different games. I played and enjoyed both at the same time.

    SC3K and SC4 are different again, though not as drastically. There are still plenty of reasons why one might prefer to play SC2K instead. With these sorts of franchises, you polish up the graphics and change the gameplay a bit. Those changes are not necessarily improvements.

  4. #44
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    Quote Originally Posted by Wizardry View Post
    Which new games do what Wizardry did?
    Depends on whether you're a normal human being or have a stick up your arse regarding the definition of RPG.

    SimCity and SimCity 2000 are completely different games. I played and enjoyed both at the same time.
    SC3K and SC4 are different again, though not as drastically. There are still plenty of reasons why one might prefer to play SC2K instead. With these sorts of franchises, you polish up the graphics and change the gameplay a bit. Those changes are not necessarily improvements.
    SimCity was just the zoning. All the later releases did was add more stuff on top of that, but the basic game is the same. I can't think of any game which actually removed features. Hence there's no real reason to go back; SC4 lets you do everything you could in SC. You could even play it as you would SC, it just wouldn't be much fun.

  5. #45
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    Quote Originally Posted by archonsod View Post
    Depends on whether you're a normal human being or have a stick up your arse regarding the definition of RPG.
    I'm not talking about the definition of an RPG. I want to know what new games do what Wizardry did.

  6. #46
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    Quote Originally Posted by Wizardry View Post
    I'm not talking about the definition of an RPG. I want to know what new games do what Wizardry did.
    well, your name is Wizardry

    maybe through your fervor for Wizardry you could figure this out for yourself
    a grumpy dude with a PHD in videogame debating

  7. #47
    Network Hub Gentleman Jim Stacey's Avatar
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    Wizardry: do you talk or care about anything besides CRPGs?

    No offense intended, it's an honest question.

  8. #48
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    Quote Originally Posted by Gentleman Jim Stacey View Post
    Wizardry: do you talk or care about anything besides CRPGs?

    No offense intended, it's an honest question.
    hey, some people like first person shooters and some people like role playing games

    and then some people like wizardry
    a grumpy dude with a PHD in videogame debating

  9. #49
    Secondary Hivemind Nexus Unaco's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Wizardry View Post
    I'm not talking about the definition of an RPG. I want to know what new games do what Wizardry did.
    New games change and evolve and try new things... Like Wizardry did, with number IV making you the 'bad' guy, or Nemesis being a Solo adventure, with no party and no class selection or attribute choice.
    Quote Originally Posted by Hypernetic View Post
    I just have an opinion different to your own. Circle jerking is good for no one, be glad somebody isn't afraid to disagree with women on the internet.
    Quote Originally Posted by Hypernetic View Post
    No, you are literally the cancer that is killing gaming.
    Quote Originally Posted by Serenegoose View Post
    Nobody's ever lost sleep over being called a cracker.

  10. #50
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    Quote Originally Posted by Unaco View Post
    New games change and evolve and try new things... Like Wizardry did, with number IV making you the 'bad' guy, or Nemesis being a Solo adventure, with no party and no class selection or attribute choice.
    Why not just explain the following?

    Quote Originally Posted by archonsod
    Wizardry is a bad example in many ways; if you had played it on release there's really not much to go back to it for; you know the story already and there's plenty of games which have been released since then that do exactly the same thing with more modern sensibilities (not least of which would be it's sequel).
    Last edited by Wizardry; 10-10-2011 at 05:16 PM.

  11. #51
    Secondary Hivemind Nexus Unaco's Avatar
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    Explain what? It seems you taken a quote by someone else and put my name on it. You've messed up. Explained?
    Quote Originally Posted by Hypernetic View Post
    I just have an opinion different to your own. Circle jerking is good for no one, be glad somebody isn't afraid to disagree with women on the internet.
    Quote Originally Posted by Hypernetic View Post
    No, you are literally the cancer that is killing gaming.
    Quote Originally Posted by Serenegoose View Post
    Nobody's ever lost sleep over being called a cracker.

  12. #52
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    Quote Originally Posted by Unaco View Post
    Explain what? It seems you taken a quote by someone else and put my name on it. You've messed up. Explained?
    My mistake! That was copypasta gone wrong.

    Still doesn't explain why you decided to butt in to defend a statement saying that there are loads of modern games that do what Wizardry did but better by talking about how games change.

  13. #53
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    The thing here Wizardry is that you've mutated this thread with intent.

    The original thread point was: Are there any games that you remember fondly, that you've recently played, and that actually stand up to modern scrutiny rather than it all being nostalgia? I've actually had that happen a few times, and games I remember fondly tend to just be a whole lot of nostalgia, very few of them turn out to be games I could play today. Many of them are awkward, grindy, annoying, cumbersome, and other things I'm not particularly fond of. And under modern scrutiny, I find I don't want to deal with those elements. I was wondering whether other people had found similar games which were ahead of their time, and stand up to modern scrutiny.

    Wizardry's redo of my thread: Which series has evolved as much as the Wizardry series did? Huh? Huh?! HUH?!? It changed so much from one game to another, which series of games has evolved MOAR?!

    I just wanted to point out what Wizardry is arguing here, versus what the thread was actually about. Frankly, I was genuinely curious about my quandary. I didn't post this thread to piss off Wizardry, as Wizardry seems to believe so with that massive ego of his (everything is about him). No, I was just curious as to what other games out there might be worth looking into. Whether there are any lost gems from the past we should go back and poke.

    And I wanted to give this thread as a means for anyone and everyone to point at games and say that, hey, those games were ahead of their time. You could actually play them today and they stand up to today's standards.

  14. #54
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    Quote Originally Posted by Wulf View Post
    The thing here Wizardry is that you've mutated this thread with intent.
    Read through the thread again and you'll find that I didn't.

  15. #55
    ON TOPIC :

    I've been playing a few classic games lately - Wing Commander 1 & 2,Dungeon Keeper 2 and Dune 2 being among them and these games very definitely do hold up for different reasons. Wing Commander 1 & 2 for an interesting story as well as simple enough gameplay to pick up really quickly and the last two for their excellent gameplay. I echo the sentiment that what kills an old game for me is a fiddly UI - I tried playing Deus and Robinsons Requiem (Hardcore survival simulators) and I just couldn't get into them.
    "You go up to a man, and you say, "How are things going, Joe?" and he says, "Oh fine, fine couldn't be better." And you look into his eyes, and you see things really couldn't be much worse. When you get right down to it, everybody's having a perfectly lousy time of it, and I mean everybody. And the hell of it is, nothing seems to help much." - Kurt Vonnegut, Jr.

  16. #56
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    The Wing Commander games were glorious, they were my gateway drugs into space combat games, if I recall correctly. And that was because they were pretty much really friendly and easy to play. I believe one of them even had a console release at the time, too, and they didn't have to lose much of it in order to make it work, which is a testament to the intuitive controls, if you ask me.

    Some flight sims and space combat games at the time required you to have a flight stick and most of the keys on your keyboard bound.

  17. #57
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    Quote Originally Posted by Wizardry View Post
    Still doesn't explain why you decided to butt in to defend a statement saying that there are loads of modern games that do what Wizardry did but better by talking about how games change.
    Wizardry VIII for a start. Just about every party based RPG of the past decade or so.

    On topic :

    Funny thing about Dune 2 is I found Command & Conquer to be virtually identical, without the Dune background obviously.

  18. #58
    Network Hub Splynter's Avatar
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    I'd have to say Homeworld. I recently re-installed it, and it's still a sight to behold. The sound is great (especially the radio chatter) and the graphics are still pretty if you can distance yourself from the resolution. The gameplay is still lots of fun, though I've remained fairly removed from the RTS scene for the past couple of years and I'm quite not sure how much the genre has advanced.

    Edit: On the console side of things, Super Mario World. Still a masterpiece.

  19. #59
    Secondary Hivemind Nexus Tikey's Avatar
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    I'm also playing Homeworld, but I'm finding that I got too used to some UI things like centering the camera with a mouse click. Anyway it's still an amazing game.

  20. #60
    Network Hub Splynter's Avatar
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    Yes, there are some minor interface issues, but nothing so serious as to mar an otherwise stellar experience. If the core game design is still solid, I couldn't care less about some interface niggles.

    From an aesthetic point of view, I find re-visiting old 2D games much easier than the earlier 3D games. Games from the 16-bit console era are still beautiful, while many PS1, N64 and mid-90's 3D PC games don't stand up as well. I am a sucker for good pixel art though, so who knows.

    I'm going to add Sim City 4 to the list (I guess it's old now? Scary stuff), along with Majora's Mask and Earthbound.

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