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  1. #81
    Secondary Hivemind Nexus Nalano's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Lukasz View Post
    and?

    they didn't kill anyone did they? so no. no apologies to people who support murder.
    I didn't trample anybody; I just cried "Fire!"
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  2. #82
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    Quote Originally Posted by Nalano View Post
    Denmark doesn't send $30 billion a year to the Israeli military.

    The tear gas canisters and armored personnel carriers in Egypt don't have "Made in Denmark" stamped on them.
    Which was my point. All that violence that followed the sketches' reveal wasn't rooted in any long standing grievance against the country.

  3. #83
    Secondary Hivemind Nexus Nalano's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Shane View Post
    Which was my point. All that violence that followed the sketches' reveal wasn't rooted in any long standing grievance against the country.
    Northern Europe, on the other hand, has been pretty vocally hostile to Muslims for a while.
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  4. #84
    Secondary Hivemind Nexus Grizzly's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Nalano View Post
    Northern Europe, on the other hand, has been pretty vocally hostile to Muslims for a while.
    Yeah well, the Anti Muslim parties over here have lost votes to parties who focus on real issues, so expect it to get better.

  5. #85
    Secondary Hivemind Nexus Tritagonist's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Nalano View Post
    Northern Europe, on the other hand, has been pretty vocally hostile to Muslims for a while.
    While I'm not sure I'd say that's a broad sentiment, it's nevertheless true that (central) Europe has enthusiastically participated in many of the dealings the United States has had in the Islamic regions of this world that are a source of frustration and anger among many of the people living there. Whether it's sending suspects to shady dictatorships for 'questioning', bombing cities, support for Israeli settlements, invading Iraq, the ongoing campaigns in Afghanistan, etc. It's easy to point the finger at the US - and remains very popular in Europe - but it rarely does these things on its own.
    Last edited by Tritagonist; 13-09-2012 at 09:25 AM.
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  6. #86
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    Quote Originally Posted by Nalano View Post
    Northern Europe, on the other hand, has been pretty vocally hostile to Muslims for a while.
    How is this relevant? I'm just saying that the Islamists in the Middle East will go apeshit on any country if they think their religion/culture has been pissed on, that America has been buttfucking the region for decades wasn't that big of a factor.

  7. #87
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    Quote Originally Posted by Shane View Post
    I'm just saying that the Islamists in the Middle East will go apeshit on any country if they think their religion/culture has been pissed on, that America has been buttfucking the region for decades wasn't that big of a factor.
    You think the rise of fundamentalists in that region is not partly connected to America and other Western powers buttfucking them for decades?

  8. #88
    Secondary Hivemind Nexus Lukasz's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Nalano View Post
    I didn't trample anybody; I just cried "Fire!"
    but you are not allowed to do that.

    you are allowed to mock religions. so south park should be pulled out of air because it mocks christianity?

    mocking religion is allowed and must be allowed. just because some assholes are offended by that is not a reason to strip us of our freedoms.

  9. #89
    Secondary Hivemind Nexus Nalano's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Shane View Post
    How is this relevant? I'm just saying that the Islamists in the Middle East will go apeshit on any country if they think their religion/culture has been pissed on, that America has been buttfucking the region for decades wasn't that big of a factor.
    Nah, it's pretty much the primary factor. Secondary factors include England and Turkey buttfucking them for centuries.

    Quote Originally Posted by Lukasz View Post
    but you are not allowed to do that.
    Yes, that's kinda the fucking point. I'm glad you understand.

    This man is not mocking religion. This man is mocking a religion different than his. This man is instigating a fight.
    Last edited by Nalano; 13-09-2012 at 01:27 PM.
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  10. #90
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    Quote Originally Posted by Lukasz View Post
    mocking religion is allowed and must be allowed.
    I agree with you but you re wrong. Many countries ban the mocking or offending of religion (regardless of which one). Greece is one of them for example.

  11. #91
    Secondary Hivemind Nexus soldant's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Lukasz View Post
    mocking religion is allowed and must be allowed. just because some assholes are offended by that is not a reason to strip us of our freedoms.
    The question then becomes "Where do we draw the line?"

    Absolute freedom isn't good for us. We live in pretty close proximity to each other and regularly mix with people entirely different from us - that's the price of an increasingly connected world. To keep the peace, we need rules, which generally means not pissing everybody off. Although I tend to agree that the fundamentalists overreact too much, that's not a big statement to make. Of course they do. People go apeshit when someone idiot fundamentalist questions evolution. Ignoring the fact that the evolutionists are clearly right, the response is normal and the same - "I'm right, you're wrong, HOW DARE YOU QUESTION ME."

    If you're going to declare open season on religion, you might as well claim open season on absolutely everything else because it's just mocking something, right? "Look at those dudes with different coloured skin, bet they're gonna rob that house, LOLOLOL chill man I'm just mocking them."

    That those "assholes" are offended may be a perfectly good reason to restrict our freedoms. There are a lot of things we aren't free to do and nor should we be free to do them. I'm not justifying the reaction of the fundamentalists, because they clearly don't give a shit about anything except retribution, but deliberate inflammation of a group is stupid. As Nalano said the dude picked a fight and people paid the price for it. This is why we have rules and social norms.

  12. #92
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    People mock religion because it is a sham, jokes about race are a different thing.

  13. #93
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    Quote Originally Posted by soldant View Post
    The question then becomes "Where do we draw the line?"

    If you're going to declare open season on religion, you might as well claim open season on absolutely everything else because it's just mocking something, right? "Look at those dudes with different coloured skin, bet they're gonna rob that house, LOLOLOL chill man I'm just mocking them."
    I think people should be allowed and even encouraged to mock and make fun of almost everything, especially authority figures and ideologies/religions/science. A healthy society is one that can take the ridicule I think. From the moment you start taking things so seriously that they cannot be the subject of a joke or ridicule then you have a problem. Religion is fine as long as it is confined to the private sphere. When it starts running the public sphere (which is in the end the goal of the 3 major religions) then it offends me but of course no one gives a shit cause it's the word of god etc etc.

  14. #94
    Secondary Hivemind Nexus Nalano's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by kataras View Post
    A healthy society is one that can take the ridicule I think.
    And we've worked so hard to ensure that the Middle East could foster a healthy society, right?

    As for religion not being touted in the public sphere, to quote Soldant quoting me,

    Quote Originally Posted by soldant View Post
    As Nalano said the dude picked a fight and people paid the price for it. This is why we have rules and social norms.
    If these religious nutjobs want to fight one another, I'm fine with them doing so. Ship Sam Bacile and Terry Jones over there and have them duke it out. But for fuck's sake, don't make the rest of us targets.
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  15. #95
    Secondary Hivemind Nexus Hypernetic's Avatar
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    So according to various news sources, the video wasn't made by an Israeli national, but rather a member of a Christian extremist group under a pseudonym. Also the Libyan attacks were supposedly planned well before that video was released.

    As for my take on the whole matter? Fuck religion, fuck politics, and fuck the whole middle east. At this point I'd be perfectly ok with taking their oil by force and then leaving the whole damned place to burn. If the region wasn't rich in oil it would just be another forgotten third world shit hole like most of Africa.

  16. #96
    Secondary Hivemind Nexus Nalano's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Hypernetic View Post
    So according to various news sources, the video wasn't made by an Israeli national, but rather a member of a Christian extremist group under a pseudonym. Also the Libyan attacks were supposedly planned well before that video was released.

    As for my take on the whole matter? Fuck religion, fuck politics, and fuck the whole middle east. At this point I'd be perfectly ok with taking their oil by force and then leaving the whole damned place to burn. If the region wasn't rich in oil it would just be another forgotten third world shit hole like most of Africa.
    Based on an e-mail by some Al Qaeda operative requesting retaliation for drone attacks a week prior, with no prior lead-up according to US Intelligence networks, and as they say is largely unsupported speculation. Not that it matters, because what's going on in Egypt and now Yemen has nothing to do with that.

    It's true that extremist Christian groups and their fundamentalists leaders have promoted and distributed the video in question, including asshats like Morris Sadek and Steve Klein. That said, it's not the Middle East that's the problem, and it's not Islam that's the problem. It's extremists and fundamentalists that's the problem - and that includes militant Baptists and Israeli Zionists - which is why I say I don't give a shit what happens to them, but leave everybody else out of it.
    Last edited by Nalano; 13-09-2012 at 03:49 PM.
    Nalano H. Wildmoon
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  17. #97
    Secondary Hivemind Nexus Hypernetic's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Nalano View Post
    Based on an e-mail by some Al Qaeda operative requesting retaliation for drone attacks a week prior, with no prior lead-up according to US Intelligence networks, and as they say is largely unsupported speculation. Not that it matters, because what's going on in Egypt and now Yemen has nothing to do with that.

    It's true that extremist Christian groups and their fundamentalists leaders have promoted and distributed the video in question, including asshats like Morris Sadek and Steve Klein. That said, it's not the Middle East that's the problem, and it's not Islam that's the problem. It's extremists and fundamentalists that's the problem - and that includes militant Baptists and Israeli Zionists - which is why I say I don't give a shit what happens to them, but leave everybody else out of it.

    Of course it's the extremists. That doesn't really change anything about what I said.

  18. #98
    Secondary Hivemind Nexus Nalano's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Hypernetic View Post
    Of course it's the extremists. That doesn't really change anything about what I said.
    It's the whole "taking their oil by force and leaving the whole place to burn" part I was taking issue with. :P

    Well, maybe if we burn Atlanta down again too. Y'know, to even things out.
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  19. #99
    Secondary Hivemind Nexus Hypernetic's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Nalano View Post
    It's the whole "taking their oil by force and leaving the whole place to burn" part I was taking issue with. :P

    Well, maybe if we burn Atlanta down again too. Y'know, to even things out.
    I didn't mean WE should burn it. Maybe a poor choice of words, I meant to just leave it to them to figure things out. Of course it's fucked up to go in there and steal their oil, but whatever.

    Why Atlanta? How about all of Utah instead?

    edit: also why did you message me on steam last night and just say "no" and then go AFK. That has been haunting me.

  20. #100
    Secondary Hivemind Nexus Nalano's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Hypernetic View Post
    I didn't mean WE should burn it. Maybe a poor choice of words, I meant to just leave it to them to figure things out. Of course it's fucked up to go in there and steal their oil, but whatever.

    Why Atlanta? How about all of Utah instead?

    edit: also why did you message me on steam last night and just say "no" and then go AFK. That has been haunting me.
    Atlanta for the southern Baptists. Utah works, too.

    Also, I did it to fuck with you. I find "NO U" is a more engaging way to start a conversation than "ohai."
    Nalano H. Wildmoon
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