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  1. #1
    Network Hub Mihkel's Avatar
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    W+M1 or what's wrong with games today

    So I was watching all those new E3 Xbox360 trailers from GT.com and what really distressed me was the w+m1 gameplay in those. Since a lot of those games are multiplat and coming to PC I am really concerned about the gaming industry today.

    Watching the MW3 gameplay videos my first impression about the game was that it's more of the same shit (setpiece to setpiece events after COD4) and nothing new or interesting, I presume that the multiplayer will stay the same TDM/SND/FFA with extra perks and pointless stuff.

    Next came Peter Molyneux talking about Fable: Journey. Trailer looked boring and how fucking long are they gonna let Teresa live, shouldn't she be like hundreds of years old by now? The thing Molyneux does, or atleast what he seems to do from my perspective is that, he has good ideas (the idea of Fable itself is really good and so is the 1st game.) but he seems to focus on all the wrong things a'la holding hands in Fable 3, more marriage stuff and so forth. In his defence he genuinely seems to believe in those things as gameplay elements but the result is poor with 1 button combat and no death bullshit.

    Then came Todd Howard with Skyrim gameplay trailer. Looked like they got the models right but the game itself looked absolutely rubbish on 360. Combat was pretty much Oblivion style easymode stuff.

    After that I watched Prototype 2 gameplay trailer. Lots of QTE's and easy shit like that and not much else.

    My question is - are developers today trying to accomodate too much for everyone (I don't mean literally casual players since I think Kinect is going to fail anyways because it doesn't matter if you're casual or hardcore or some shit like that, a videogame enjoying person wants to sit down and relax while playing games, not be spastic in front of their TVs or monitors)? Also one button interaction in modern FPSs like Brink for instance, where your regular or any objective for that matter is the single button use. Why not create a minigame for hacking, or actually putting number in the statchel charge as you plant it? Why has everything be one button affair with no depth no minigames no nothing. Just W+M1.

    P.S. Sorry for shitty english, this is not my first language.
    Last edited by Mihkel; 07-06-2011 at 12:01 AM. Reason: Just felt the need to add a few things.

  2. #2
    Secondary Hivemind Nexus soldant's Avatar
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    Combat was pretty much Oblivion style easymode stuff.
    Well to be fair, a trailer where the player dies every few steps isn't exactly very informative or entertaining... I'd say they deliberately lower the difficulty to prevent situations where the person showing the demo dies frequently.

    Why not create a minigame for hacking, or actually putting number in the statchel charge as you plant it?
    Not quite sure what you mean with the satchel charges, but I agree with things like minigames for hacking. Then again they have to be reasonaly good and not another Pipedream game shoe-horned into liquid metal or something like that, whatever the hell Bioshock did.

    Why has everything be one button affair with no depth no minigames no nothing. Just W+M1.
    Things have always been one-button affairs when it comes to FPS games. I also think you're exaggerating with W+M1 (TF2 meme?). I think the problem with integrating too many minigames is that it breaks the flow of the game; I certainly don't want a minigame to interrupt me for ridiculous reasons just so that the developer can claim that there's enhanced interactivity or something. If anything games have slowly moved away from this because they're putting quicktime events or other weird actions into even the simplest of concepts, like opening doors.

  3. #3
    Secondary Hivemind Nexus SirKicksalot's Avatar
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    I think Fable is shit, but I really liked the spell mechanics of The Journey.

  4. #4
    Network Hub Mihkel's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by soldant View Post
    Well to be fair, a trailer where the player dies every few steps isn't exactly very informative or entertaining... I'd say they deliberately lower the difficulty to prevent situations where the person showing the demo dies frequently.
    Dude all you gotta do is get somebody playing who knows what's going on. Look at Withcer 2's combat video for instance. Guy is using signs, bombs, dodging left to right and doing all sorts of fun stuff.

    Quote Originally Posted by soldant View Post
    Things have always been one-button affairs when it comes to FPS games. I also think you're exaggerating with W+M1 (TF2 meme?). I think the problem with integrating too many minigames is that it breaks the flow of the game; I certainly don't want a minigame to interrupt me for ridiculous reasons just so that the developer can claim that there's enhanced interactivity or something. If anything games have slowly moved away from this because they're putting quicktime events or other weird actions into even the simplest of concepts, like opening doors.
    My point is that games are losing a lot of level design because todays devs want the game to be liked by everyone. MW3 for instance is just a straight line (from what I saw from those gameplay videos). Player is not given a chance to rest from the constant firefights and setpiece events to explore a little or just mess around you just go forward and shoot whatever that comes your way, tbh it very much looks like a really expensive rail shooter. I remember times when levels had little secret rooms to find, levels were interesting and most had the decency to give this illusion of openness. Last FPS game I remember offering me that was Singularity I think but they kinda fucked it up with the TMD usage and so forth.

  5. #5
    Secondary Hivemind Nexus Vexing Vision's Avatar
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    The problem is that we're a minority.

    The large majority of players out there won't finish a game. Either because it's too long, or because at one point it's too hard, or because they get distracted by something shiny. So as an investor, you want people to get emotionally hooked to your game so you can sell a sequel. Unfortunately, this means it has to be easy enough for the drunk college drop-out to finish in a short-ish amount of time, so he can feel satisfied and is easily targetted with the next ad-campaign for new DLC or the next Call of Duty.

    I get my creative fix from indie developers and the occasional brilliant AAA-title, and enjoy the rest of the mainstream games for their high production value and polish.
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  6. #6
    Secondary Hivemind Nexus soldant's Avatar
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    Guy is using signs, bombs, dodging left to right and doing all sorts of fun stuff.
    Yeah but Witcher 2 is an entirely different game with a different perspective...

    My point is that games are losing a lot of level design because todays devs want the game to be liked by everyone.
    Oh, in that case I agree that games are becoming a bit too linear and that "battle fatigue" sets in way too quickly on games today. The pacing is totally off and devs seem to use this as an excuse to make shorter games. I fully agree that so many games are managing to screw up design by including random invisible walls, or other roadblocks for no apparent reason other than lack of imagination. I kind of feel like we've gone backwards when sector-based engines sometimes have better level designs than current games.

  7. #7
    Network Hub Mihkel's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by soldant View Post
    Yeah but Witcher 2 is an entirely different game with a different perspective...
    Oh I mean that in a sense of presentation.

  8. #8
    Network Hub Joseph's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Mihkel View Post
    Oh I mean that in a sense of presentation.
    I do get what you're saying about what was shown of the Witcher 2 before release but I think in the case of Todd Howard with Skyrim he was trying to really sell the whole "You can be whoever you want to be" thing. Like he was showing the sword/axe wielding barbarian type guy demolishing everything in close combat, then the mage character making huge magic effects and frying Draugir and then a stealth/archer character taking out those people in the cave.
    So I reckon he was just showing extreme examples of what characters can become rather than anything more about the game. The Witcher 2's video showed how saucey the combat can be and Skyrim's video showed how a player can have their character.

  9. #9
    Network Hub Mihkel's Avatar
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    Fair enough.

  10. #10
    Network Hub Mihkel's Avatar
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    Shameless bump.

  11. #11
    Obscure Node
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    What's W+M1?

  12. #12
    Secondary Hivemind Nexus Malawi Frontier Guard's Avatar
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    Why did you bump this? There is nothing here that we haven't heard or discussed before.

  13. #13
    Secondary Hivemind Nexus Lambchops's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Mihkel View Post
    P.S. Sorry for shitty english, this is not my first language.
    The English is fine, just don't get too acronym happy! I for one have no idea what W + m1 even means. I can quess it's something to do with only use the forward button and constantly shooting at things, but I shouldn't have to be guessing! Coincidentally that was often how I used to play Unreal Tournament, running at people with the impact hammer. Fun times!

  14. #14
    Network Hub Mihkel's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Stijn View Post
    What's W+M1?
    Oh it's move forward and shoot, it's meant to mean moving in a single line and shoot only. Since I use the WASD config the W is move forward for me.

    Quote Originally Posted by Malawi Frontier Guard View Post
    Why did you bump this? There is nothing here that we haven't heard or discussed before.
    I tought maybe people want to discuss this more but if the thread fails yet again I'll let it sink into oblivion.

  15. #15
    Secondary Hivemind Nexus Rii's Avatar
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  16. #16
    Network Hub 8-bit's Avatar
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    so the first picture is doom and the second is half life, or final fantasy 13.

    I found that picture funny the first time I saw it a while back but now it doesn't make much sense to me, it only becomes a problem when games opt for a particular style or presenting the game and do it badly right?

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