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  1. #1
    Activated Node soopytwist's Avatar
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    Youtube's copyright school

    I was just forced to submit to Youtube's copyright school. If anyone doesn't know what this is, if Youtube find a video on your channel that infringes copyright they now immediately disable it rather than send you a warning, and then you're locked out from accessing your channel until you've answered a series of questions on copyright law (you're supposed to watch a video too).

    Now I feel like a common criminal and all because I wanted to share some music that was out of the public domain and no longer accessible - in much the same way as the old TV adverts that are still on my channel.

    I've now had to cull a shit load of videos that had "third party matched" content in them to be on the safe side - because Youtube informed that if it happens again they'll close my account...permanently. Some of the videos I had to remove had thousands of views and were really popular - yes okay, they all had copyright content in them and shouldn't have been uploaded in the first place but everyone fucking does it. I'm really pissed off about this, especially as some of the videos I've culled where some of my finest editing work - for example the opening credits to Start Trek Voyager but with the main theme music from Air Force One. Got a lot of praise for that one.

    Still...I've got all my videos saved so maybe I'll just set-up a new Google account and re-upload them.

  2. #2
    Quote Originally Posted by soopytwist View Post
    I'm really pissed off about this, especially as some of the videos I've culled where some of my finest editing work - for example the opening credits to Start Trek Voyager but with the main theme music from Air Force One. Got a lot of praise for that one.
    I don't know alot about copyright, but that should be fine. You've used two different things and made something new out of them. This does sound like a big ball ache, and you have my sympathies, hopefully you can get this sorted. I make music and upload it to soundcloud, I've been thinking about uploading more to youtube, but this sort of thing worries me. I use all kinds of unlicensed samples and things in them.

  3. #3
    Secondary Hivemind Nexus gundato's Avatar
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    Uhm, this kind of sounds like what the system WAS intended for
    Quote Originally Posted by soopytwist View Post
    Now I feel like a common criminal and all because I wanted to share some music that was out of the public domain and no longer accessible - in much the same way as the old TV adverts that are still on my channel.
    You still knowingly have content on your channel that violates copyrights and junk and you are wondering why they want you to watch a video to learn what copyrighted material is?

    Some of the videos I had to remove had thousands of views and were really popular - yes okay, they all had copyright content in them and shouldn't have been uploaded in the first place but everyone fucking does it.
    Which is why the new system was set up.

    I'm really pissed off about this, especially as some of the videos I've culled where some of my finest editing work - for example the opening credits to Start Trek Voyager but with the main theme music from Air Force One. Got a lot of praise for that one.
    ...

    Still...I've got all my videos saved so maybe I'll just set-up a new Google account and re-upload them.
    And that is why I have little to no sympathy


    So... good job. You managed to find a way to actually present an example of the youtube auto-nuker actually working correctly.
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  4. #4
    Secondary Hivemind Nexus soldant's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by soopytwist View Post
    ...yes okay, they all had copyright content in them and shouldn't have been uploaded in the first place but everyone fucking does it.
    Before I condemn you I'd like to know exactly what you're talking about here. If it's just bits and pieces of copyrighted work then I'm more inclined to take your side. If you're using large sections (or the entire thing), then the copyright law is on their side, uploading the entirety of a copyrighted work is against the rules, and it doesn't matter if 'everyone does it' or not.

    Morally - I'm a bit conflicted. But then I see people going "OMFG WTF YOU STOLE MY VIDEO" in YouTube comments and I stop caring entirely. The entire system is screwed up.
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  5. #5
    Secondary Hivemind Nexus Skalpadda's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by soopytwist View Post
    Now I feel like a common criminal and all because I wanted to share some music that was out of the public domain and no longer accessible - in much the same way as the old TV adverts that are still on my channel.
    I think you have to go back to the 1920s for recorded works to be in the public domain in the US now. Something not being accessible or commercially available doesn't mean it's in the public domain.

    Quote Originally Posted by CuriousOrange View Post
    I don't know alot about copyright, but that should be fine. You've used two different things and made something new out of them.
    Any instance of making someone else's work publicly available is a breach of their copyright, I'm afraid. There are fair use protections for things like commentary, reviews and parody, but that doesn't help with Youtube since they (somewhat understandably) seem more worried about covering their own behinds than try to argue with rights holders.

    What really annoys me about Youtube is the way claiming videos works. If your video gets claimed the company which claimed it can choose to monetise it and earn ad revenue from it, even if the part of the video they "own" is a few seconds of an hour long video where everything else is your original work.

  6. #6
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    Quote Originally Posted by soopytwist View Post
    Now I feel like a common criminal.
    You are a common criminal. Of course, if you don't feel particular reprehensible, then perhaps you should reconsider exactly what that word means when you hear it in other contexts. Many of the best sorts of people around have been criminals at one time or another. Indeed, Brazil's current President is a former terrorist.

    TL;DR: take this as an opportunity to learn to think for yourself instead of swallowing the categories and labels others give you and the associations that come with them.
    Last edited by Lethe; 23-03-2014 at 06:05 AM.

  7. #7
    Secondary Hivemind Nexus Xercies's Avatar
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    You know companies could come to their senses and instead of the ban hammer allow people to upload their works allow people to be fans and get new fans allow people to make new work out of remixing old work. But nope. Down with copyright completely broken system andd just there for censorship and control and not protecting the author like people wronglu claim.

    That is unless you didnt state on your videos where the pieces came from.

  8. #8
    Activated Node soopytwist's Avatar
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    I've never uploaded entire episodes of anything or films. The only music I've uploaded in full are tracks no longer available commercially nor ever played in any form of media. The majority of the third party matched content videos were mash-ups.
    I have also correctly credited all responsible for the source material, even going as far as finding who the current copyright holders are and mentioning them by name in the videos with a disclaimer to say I upload it to make it freely available for others to listen to because it is no longer available to the public. TBH I haven't done this for all of them.

    I had a mash-up of the dance sequence from Back the Future Part III and Cotton Eye Joe by Rednecks. It was acknowledged that it contained the copyrighted music however Youtube allowed it and just added adverts to the start and a link to the song on iTunes. But I've now I've taken it down anyway because of their heavy handedness.

    Search soopytwist on Youtube to see my channel, what remains of it. I have a lot old TV adverts on there. I see no problem with those since, A. they are no longer shown in any form of media and B. is free advertising. I agree though that a Dunlop advert should have been removed due to it containing You're So Vain by Carly Simon...even though it was barely 30 seconds long.
    Last edited by soopytwist; 23-03-2014 at 12:01 PM.

  9. #9
    Activated Node soopytwist's Avatar
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    Also, I had some Chris Moyles parodies on there which I have also taken down. They match third party content because of the music but the copyright match assumes they're by the original artists which of course they are not since it is Chris Moles singing.

    It seems bigger personalities on Youtube can get away with it. Why isn't Bad Lip Reading shut down for posting mash-ups of movies and TV shows? Because they're funny, get a lot of views and often feature in the press and media. Youtube just shit on the little guy.

  10. #10
    Network Hub SirDavies's Avatar
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    Yes, Youtube's copyright policy kinda sucks because it doesn't leave much room for fair use. But they are a big webiste (owned by Google) and they have to find a way to manage millions of hours of video being uploaded every day while defending themselves from claims of copyright infringement, mainly by movie production companies and record labels. It's understandable that they can't assess everything fairly and they are more on the safe side. The best solution, and the more interesting one in my opinion is to make your own content without infringing any copyright.

  11. #11
    Secondary Hivemind Nexus Lukasz's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by soopytwist View Post
    Because they're funny, get a lot of views and often feature in the press and media.
    not relevant. they have a)people who handle that b)get holders to remove claims c)have permissions.

  12. #12
    Secondary Hivemind Nexus gundato's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Lukasz View Post
    not relevant. they have a)people who handle that b)get holders to remove claims c)have permissions.
    Pretty much. As much as everyone likes to pretend this will kill the entire LP and anime music video community, it won't. The bigger folk have the connections to do things legally and we'll likely see a rise in the "network" approach, similar to how TotalBiscuit is part of Polaris, in large part for handling crap like this (and making a more stable income). Or how a few years back RoosterTeeth was partnered with Machinima and the like for the same reasons (although, they split back off for various reasons and now even have a channel or two that they use to help others upload videos for exposure while being protected from those requests. And to make more ad money, but... yeah :p).

    Yes, this has the potential to hurt the smaller guys, but there are already ways around that. Twitch hasn't been going as crazy about nuking content and is perfect for LPers (assuming twitch gets off their asses and makes watching archived content less painful) and I am sure something similar will appear for the "mash-ups" and what not. What this primarily hurts are the ninety million people who make it an exercise in futility to find the official music video for a song I am trying to show a friend (fun fact, apparently I had never heard Finch's "Ender" in the non-acoustic form). And once a channel becomes popular enough (likely by sticking to content where they won't get auto-taken down), working with a network/sending an email or two won't be a huge issue

    Yes, there is a lot of room for abuse in this system. Just recently, TotalBiscuit got a video taken down... by someone who had re-uploaded said video and won the DMCA request. Yeah...
    But, by and large, this is something that has been a long time coming.
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  13. #13
    Activated Node soopytwist's Avatar
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    If I put a video on Youtube that just had links in it to my Dropbox with the videos I had to remove, does that still count as copyright? Well yes it does but I mean does it bypass Google's all seeing eye? I could still have tags and everything with the message "This video was here but now it's not. If you want to see it go here: blahblah".

  14. #14
    Secondary Hivemind Nexus gundato's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by soopytwist View Post
    If I put a video on Youtube that just had links in it to my Dropbox with the videos I had to remove, does that still count as copyright? Well yes it does but I mean does it bypass Google's all seeing eye? I could still have tags and everything with the message "This video was here but now it's not. If you want to see it go here: blahblah".
    If you want to have almost nobody bother watching your videos AND earn the title of "Thunder Cunt" (ho!!!! What?), feel free. Just don't be surprised when absolutely nobody feels sympathy for you if you get made an example of by whoever you are stealing content from

    That being said, avoid Dropbox as they ALSO care about copyrighted material https://www.dropbox.com/help/210/en and from what an idiotic friend of mine has experienced they are pretty fast to just nuke your whole account.

    In all seriousness though. If all you ever want to do is just make mash-ups and the like, keep on doing this. But if you are actually making a portfolio to one day make a career out of things like this, consider not actively pissing on copyrights and the like since that kind of crap can bite you in the ass (and may piss off a future employer).
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  15. #15
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    YouTube's policy is annoying but understandable. Sure, you could argue it's fair use, in your case, you would probably win. But YouTube quite understandably don't want to get bogged down in making that argument for you because, let's face it, you're not paying them are you?

    It's a shame YouTube don't offer any options to customers when this stuff happens. I do think once you've lost and lost again on appeal that YouTube should say "okay, send us 500 and we'll actually look at your video and make an informal appeal on fair use grounds, and if it succeeds you get 300 back". And if you lose that "okay, send us 5000 and we'll hire lawyers to take it to court on your behalf."

    But they don't do that because if they did, no-one would take them up on it.

    There's a fairly simple way around all this: get a web server and host the videos yourself. When you look in to that and realise how expensive it would be for any half-way popular video, you start to understand why YouTube is pretty good value as it.

  16. #16
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    You could also try a video site that is not Youtube.

  17. #17
    Activated Node soopytwist's Avatar
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    I disputed a claim once. One of my Amiga Lemming animations used a license free sound effect CD, some weirdly name person(?) was claiming copyright for the sound effect of some wind!? I disputed it pretty much on the lines of: are you taking the piss? And Youtube agreed and let it go. I didn't actually put that, I was very erudite in my response.

    Anyway I think I'll let things settle down a bit and then re-upload the mash-up ones and skip the TV theme tunes and others. Shame I lost my view count and comments though.

    So Youtube said that if another video was found to be in breach of the copyright laws they would close my account. How long does this stay on for? I mean two strikes and you're out, does it reset after a while or what?

    I still can't believe "The Musicians and Artists Alliance" put their claim in for my upload of the television theme tune to Treasure Hunt. As if anyone can go out and fucking buy it and it hasn't been on telly for a decade!

  18. #18
    Secondary Hivemind Nexus Xercies's Avatar
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    With films and stuff coming out of every kind of nostalgia property they will protect anything because if they don't people could use it and gain money that they didn't!

  19. #19
    Activated Node soopytwist's Avatar
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    So the latest is that I contacted a very nice lady at Varese Sarabande records concerning copyright and she said it was fine to upload a piece of rare music from one of their movie soundtracks. Unfortunately I also need permission from Paramount studios - who I'm trying to contact now because I used stills from the movie in the video. I've also asked Paramount about the Star Trek Voyager mash-up.

    I've made it my mission to contact the copyright holders to see if I can get permission for all of them.

  20. #20
    Secondary Hivemind Nexus gundato's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by soopytwist View Post
    So the latest is that I contacted a very nice lady at Varese Sarabande records concerning copyright and she said it was fine to upload a piece of rare music from one of their movie soundtracks. Unfortunately I also need permission from Paramount studios - who I'm trying to contact now because I used stills from the movie in the video. I've also asked Paramount about the Star Trek Voyager mash-up.

    I've made it my mission to contact the copyright holders to see if I can get permission for all of them.
    And this is the correct solution and the correct behavior. Not "how can I get around all this crap" but instead "how can I do things correctly"
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