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  1. #681
    Secondary Hivemind Nexus Heliocentric's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Screwie View Post
    What is your opinion of the zombie/skeleton mixed team?
    To be fair, this is actually a fair answer to the main issues without forcing a GS player into the team ranks.

    Zombies specialising in the Block+Dauntless+Pro side of things.
    Skeletons better at Wrestle/Fend/Strip ball mobility hunting.

    Yeah, FG are a bad idea, my bad.

    Edit: Double skills worth strategic consideration

    Skeleton: Sure feet, Jump up, Diving tackle, Leader, Hail Mary Pass, Dump off (no really, it confuses people enough to make it worth it but it needs pro on would be catchers and the dump off player which should be a strong contender for a second skill anyway**)
    Zombies:Sidestep, Jump Up, Diving tackle, Leader, Hail Mary Pass,Thick skull (not actually taking the piss)


    Pointless skills which might seem good: Dodge(stunty leagues are the home of tackle), Guard (you dont need assists vs St2 and ST5 are better jump marked rather than attacked), Mighty Blow (get pro instead if you really want to lie them down), Sneaky Git (Did the maths, its pointless, you go down from 11/36 pitch evictions per foul[assuming assists to get 100% break] to 11/36... Oh right, that's the same number, If you need a 10 to get a break you evict 18/36*) and never if you don't break, but that's not even useful strategically, unlike say block or sure feet which could actually make a difference in a game.


    *3 outcomes make 10, one is a double, 2 outcomes make 11, no doubles, 1 outcome makes 12 its a double. 2 doubles in 6 numbers, multiplied by the 1/6 injury roll chance=12/36 then add the 6 evictions native to that roll =18/36

    edit 2: I wasnt trying to make a playbook

    If you have a cage of 6 Pro zombies each getting 1.5 chances to get the ball getting a fair chance to decide roughly where the ball ends up isn't so bad, and +1SPP for a successful zombie dump off is beyond badass.
    Last edited by Heliocentric; 09-07-2012 at 11:28 PM.
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  2. #682
    Network Hub potatoedoughnut's Avatar
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    Dump off seems pretty horrible with agi 2, you'd need a 5+ for the pass alone assuming only the blitzing TZ and no other markers. And then you have a 4+ catch to make. And having 6 pro zombies is silly. You'd be much better of taking things like block, sure hands, or tackle on them than pro.

    I'd take MB on a block/tackle zombie over Pro, but pro has other uses which would be good on a general purpose player. I don't think I'd take any wrestle on a dead team. Stunties are unlikely to have much block (requires double) and the loss of MV is pretty crippling.

    Taking thick skull on a double is silly. It's TV bloat and rarely useful. You'd be better off getting block or dodge (tackle needs a double for stunties) to avoid getting knocked down to begin with.



    I'm looking forward to the next season. Should be interesting to see how the new teams perform!
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  3. #683
    Secondary Hivemind Nexus Heliocentric's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by potatoedoughnut View Post
    Dump off seems pretty horrible with agi 2, you'd need a 5+ for the pass alone assuming only the blitzing TZ and no other markers. And then you have a 4+ catch to make. And having 6 pro zombies is silly. You'd be much better of taking things like block, sure hands, or tackle on them than pro.
    The dump off is not meant to be a catch, its about you deciding where the ball drops and then pray for a catch on the tumbling ball, unless you fumble and then its probably dropping in your cage like normal.

    Taking thick skull on a double is silly. It's TV bloat and rarely useful. You'd be better off getting block or dodge (tackle needs a double for stunties) to avoid getting knocked down to begin with.
    A stunned zombie is still a valid member of a cage, a knocked out one who wasn't able to use dodge because he got hit by a tackler isn't.

    I'd take MB on a block/tackle zombie over Pro, but pro has other uses which would be good on a general purpose player. I don't think I'd take any wrestle on a dead team. Stunties are unlikely to have much block (requires double) and the loss of MV is pretty crippling.
    MB is great if you are trying to fight, but who is moving the ball for that 1-0 victory zombies claw at every match? Block+Pro is a much more useful combination than Block+MB when you consider its many utilities. Still, I am playing from a strange PoV here that winning is more important than injuries caused, one that's rather worrying me.

    I accept wrestle is a weak choice and tackle is much better.
    Last edited by Heliocentric; 09-07-2012 at 11:38 PM.
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  4. #684
    Network Hub potatoedoughnut's Avatar
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    Regarding DO: If your zombie has block or dodge you're better off holding onto the ball than trying to pass it off. Your chances of getting knocked down with STR3 and block or dodge are lower than the chance of spilling the ball somewhere inconvenient. And the ball will have to be on the DO zombie, which won't always be the case considering limited MV. And DO is only useful in that rare situation, block or dodge or something will be useful many times.

    Regarding Thick Skull: getting blocked by a player without tackle is much much more common than rolling an 8 for injury. Again it's a case of a very rare situation (8 on injury table) and a broadly applicable skill (dodge is useful when being blocked and for mobility (75% success of zombie dodge)).

    Regarding MB: I agree that you're better off taking a myriad of skills before MB, but there are more skills I would take before pro.


    I think you're better off sticking to the basics: block, tackle, sure hands (or dodge, jump up, side step on double) rather than trying to be fancy with extremely situational skills. Yes it will be awesome when you're thick skull comes into play or your dump off works. But those are situation that will happen maybe one in every 10 or 20 games where instead you could take skills that will help EVERY game.

    This is true not only for a stunty league, but for DoD or Open or any random team you are developing. There is a reason that you rarely/never see some skills: they are just too situational to spend a skill and TV on taking.
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  5. #685
    Lesser Hivemind Node NieA7's Avatar
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    Thematically I like the idea of a zombie and golem side, it's like zombie and zombie+. Doubt they'd be hugely fun to play, though I don't think golem's would be OP in a stunty league - general and strength access is great, but there are so many skills they need to be deadly (block, tackle, dauntless, guard, break tackle, mighty blow etc) they'd never get them all. In practical terms a zombie and skeleton team sounds like a better bet, although potentially too much to handle - 12 players and 3 re-rolls would only come to 690TV, that'd really hurt flings trying to minimise their TV. Still, what's life without a little experimentation here and there? I'll vote for allowing them in on a roster of:
    0-16 zombies
    0-16 skeletons
    All star players
    No mercenaries

    As for skills first choice for pretty much all of them would surely have to be tackle, with maybe 2 dedicated carriers (sure hands/fend), 1-2 ball hunters (strip ball) and a kicker (uh, kick). My first thought was block, but having played GCs ogres twice the one with tackle is an utter menace compared to the one with block/pro.

  6. #686
    Secondary Hivemind Nexus Heliocentric's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by potatoedoughnut View Post
    This is true not only for a stunty league, but for DoD or Open or any random team you are developing. There is a reason that you rarely/never see some skills: they are just too situational to spend a skill and TV on taking.
    Fair enough, but Hail Mary Pass should be in more teams without question.
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  7. #687
    Network Hub potatoedoughnut's Avatar
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    Oh yeah, HMP should be used more. Especially since stunties have easy access to diving catch.
    Eagles may soar, but weasels don't get sucked into jet engines.

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  8. #688
    Secondary Hivemind Nexus Screwie's Avatar
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    Although if you have a Bombardier, you may want to set your Diving Catch to "Ask"...

  9. #689
    Lesser Hivemind Node NieA7's Avatar
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    If it lands where a gobbo can use diving catch chances are he'd want you to say "yes".

  10. #690
    Secondary Hivemind Nexus Screwie's Avatar
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    It depends where that goblin is. If he's just in the mix next to your intended targets, I would rather risk the 50% of the bomb blast missing him than catching it and then fumbling the subsequent throw. It's a fringe case sure (typically the Diving Catch will come into play when the bomb is caught and returned to your guys) but it's enough to warrant making DC optional in my eyes.

  11. #691
    Lesser Hivemind Node NieA7's Avatar
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    After a genuinely grueling match that lasted a full 2 and a half hours over 28 turns, the Gauntlin Goblet has been decided. I'm too shattered to write a report now, I've uploaded the match to BBManager, result below in white text in case anyone wants to watch the match first :p

    2-1 to El Cubo, with Zara playing like a hero all match and Walt Disney very nearly keeping up with her.

    What a game.
    Last edited by NieA7; 10-07-2012 at 11:28 PM.

  12. #692
    Secondary Hivemind Nexus Heliocentric's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by NieA7 View Post
    After a genuinely grueling match that lasted a full 28 turns, the Gauntlin Goblet has been decided. I'm too shattered to write a report now, I've uploaded the match to BBManager
    What a game.
    28 turns? Incredible How many cas? *checks* nope cant find the league >_<
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  13. #693
    Lesser Hivemind Node NieA7's Avatar
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    Probably not as many as you imagine, there were a hell of a lot of KOs. It's under "League: RPS Gauntlin Goblet".

  14. #694
    Secondary Hivemind Nexus Screwie's Avatar
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    Wow, sounds like an epic saga. I eagerly await the match report... also I will have to watch the replay too.

  15. #695
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    Quote Originally Posted by NieA7 View Post
    After a genuinely grueling match that lasted a full 2 and a half hours over 28 turns, the Gauntlin Goblet has been decided.
    I think it was more like 3 and a half hours. It felt like the game was going on for ever! I would have been happy to end the game after the first TD, but nooo, you had to be the sadomasochist and tie the game.

    ***

    So anyways: Goblins receive first. I try to kick short because I want them to score fast, if things go wrong. One troll goes dumb and the other one injures a 'lfling. Walt Disney pulls double skulls but a reroll turns that into a both down result. Then a failure at pick up. So I step back to slow the attack. The chainsaw wielding Michael Jackson is blitzed to the KO box. Babar Baklava runs for the ball. Instead of just guarding it he, with the enthusiasm of an inexperienced player, tries to pick the ball up from a tackle-zone and fails miserably. He then is injured by Walt Disney himself. Thanks for showing the kid the ropes, Walt! A bomb is thrown and Schwarzwδlder Kirschtorte goes belly up. Bot in no time at all he's back on his feet. Zara blitzes and KO's the bomber gob. Good riddance! Then the ball is picked up and the halfling with the amazing kicking talent is injured but the gobs can't advance.

    Soon we're by the other sideline with about an equal number of halflings and goblins, one troll, Zara and a tree. The other troll is far away, being stupid next to the tree that's taken root. The goblins can't push through and Zara knocks down the troll. She gets up and tries to break tackle his way around but fails the dodge and loner rolls and gets KO'd. This leaves the ball carrier open for Zara to crowd surf. The ball goes out of bounds and next to some halflings. James Brownie gets the ball and is thrown with some hope that he'd get close enough to score on the next, final round. Landing fails and nothing noteworthy happens. Except George Clooney getting injured by a foul halfling.

    So, the next half starts and there are only 10 philantropists against the 11 pastry folk. In no time at all one halfling gets knocked out from a both down block and another is badly hurt by Mother Teresa. Sammy Sweetroll finally picks up the ball and goes forth. I can't remember how things exactly proceeded but somehow a big clump of halflings is formed next to the sideline and one DT goblin gets crowd surfed. Trolls and Walt come crashing in but the ball-bearer escapes further towards midfield, only to be blitzed down by Mr. Disney. The goblins can't get the ball, however, and there's some brawling. Walt Disney is pushed on the ball which bounces towards the halflings and is picked up. Walt fails his blitzing leap and the first touchdown is soon scored by Sebastian Sachertorte. 1-0 for the flings.

    The goblins have three turns to even the score. Walt Disney goes for the score, Zara tries to stab but can't pierce his armour. DT halflings try to cut his path, but Walt can't be stopped. A 1-die blitz gets rid of one of the tacklers and then the touchdown is just two regular dodges away. No problems for him. 1-1.

    So, the teams set up again. The numbers advantage is now more clearly in the halflings' favor: 11 against 8. The crowd doesn't like these odds and takes out the sure feeted Sammy Sweetroll by a well aimed rock. The halflings use two turns to pick the ball up again and then it's on with the game. Zara stabs Walt Disney and if not for the goblin apothecary, he'd have finally been knocked out. Sebastian Sachertorte is so enraged by such blatant doping that he runs in to give the pogoer the foot. That doesn't do much good, a stun is a stun, and an ejectee is born. The ball is caged in a gorgeous goblin-treeman-halfling cage. Did I mention that goblin was stunned? Walt comes jumping in and gets a 1-die blitz on the ball carrier. A pushback is rerolled into a skull and the green little man is stunned again, so no worries! Just have to get across that fairly unoccupied pitch. The ball is moved forward and badly protected. There comes the blitz and pow, the ball is loose again. Around this time the thought finally started forming in my head: "I wonder why I don't use Zara as the ball carrier."

    Well, Rudolf Runebergintorttu fails the pick up but the bouncing ball is caught by the previous carrier. He then gets knocked down again and the ball ends up resting between a few philantropists and about as much halflings. It looks like neither team can get the ball safely. The situation resolves itself when Mother Teresa fails a break tackle. With Banana Split finally shambling to the scene to blitz the sidestepping annoyance from next to the ball, Zara picks up the ball. Two DT goblins position themselves next to Zara. Walt is marked by a DT halfling but goes for the blitz anyway. The leap fails and so it's only a matter of dealing with the two divers. The block on the SS+DT goblin fortunately yields pow so Zara can easily blitz herself free of the other one and score.

    The Phillies have time for a one turn TD. All the knocked out goblins get up to see the spectacle but Zara's excellent kick to the end zone brings an end to their dreams. The halflings get their dessert and Zara is rightfully crowned the MVP.

    2 - 1 for It Came for Dessert

    **

    Phew, a long story to a long match. Thanks to NieA7 for the magnificent match. The knock out rolls worked to my favour. I could start almost every drive with numbers advantage.

    **

    Looking at the log in BBManager, it looks as if stunty didn't work properly: An injury roll of 9 on Anthony J. Drexel wasn't converted to badly hurt at the start after the 1-1 match. Nor was Andrew Carnegie's 7 converted to KO. Could be a fault of BBManager or my interpreting its entries, too.
    Last edited by El Cubo; 11-07-2012 at 10:29 AM.

  16. #696
    Lesser Hivemind Node NieA7's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by El Cubo View Post
    I think it was more like 3 and a half hours. It felt like the game was going on for ever! I would have been happy to end the game after the first TD, but nooo, you had to be the sadomasochist and tie the game.
    I offered you the chance to concede multiple times! And yes, it was 3 and a half hours, not 2, that's what you get for posting after 3 and a half hours of BB.

    So yeah, that was a game that happened. Despite having had loads of stunty games that descended into madness pretty quickly this match was painfully tactical all the way through - it was almost like they were two proper BB teams. Failing to score in the first half put me on the back foot all the way through, but I couldn't get enough flings off the pitch to open a route - for every half pint a troll or Walt injured Zara KO'd another gobbo (I'm pretty sure she KO'd a gobbo every turn for the first four or five turns). Groovy killed one of my Diving Tackle gobbos in the last game which hurt too, with only three on the pitch it was hard to pin the flings down. The trees were oddly robust as well, I attempted multiple two dice blocks through the game but I think I only managed to knock them down once or twice.

    I regained some pride by forcing the game into extra time before El Cubo got the first TD. The start of the drive was very difficult - with more flings on the pitch than gobbos I couldn't cover against a throw and pressure the carrier at the same time, so I opted to cover the throw and mark up the space to stop the cage moving too quickly. This left Zara free to carry on her gobbo maiming duties, but it did force the carrier over to the sidelines, where finally a failed dodge from a fling left enough of a gap to force the trolls into the cage. From here it turned into a scramble, with Walt downing the carrier but getting pinned by a diving tackler. I could get tackle zones on the ball, but not enough to stop the recovery. It was still open for a blitz - unfortunately Walt failed the leap to freedom opening up an easy run in, fortunately it was already turn 17 by then.

    So scoring in 3 turns felt unlikely, doubly so after my cunning hand-off/break tackle/TTM/run for freedom plan was foiled by one potential receiver being KOd and the other getting double marked. With pretty much no other options available Walt was given the ball and sent on a kamikazi mission deep into enemy territory, but miraculously the Zara stab was so puny it couldn't even break his gimped AV6. Even more miraculously his subsequent blitz worked, opening up a a comparatively easy run through (just two dodges without diving tackle, which was the equivalent of an empty field in this game).

    The final drive of the game is a bit of a blur to me. The numbers were firmly in the flings favor by this point, so I tried to pin the diving tacklers with non-skilled gobbos leaving Walt, the trolls and my two diving tacklers free to do something. Unfortunately within a couple of turns one of the trolls got isolated and I could never spare a gobbo to run back and remind her why she was there, though both the trees took root quite early on. Ultimately I never quite had the numbers to press home the attack - if I got the ball free I couldn't pick it up, and my fate was sealed when Mother Theresa failed the break tackle I needed to push a fling onto the ball and hopefully knock it out of the tackle zones.

    It was indeed a magnificent match, thanks to El Cubo for being a great opponent. Honestly I think the result was the right one, his use of Zara in particular was exemplary. Runners up for the second season in a row - forever the bridesmaid, never the bride, but there's always next season to put that right!
    Last edited by NieA7; 11-07-2012 at 11:31 AM.

  17. #697
    Secondary Hivemind Nexus Screwie's Avatar
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    Amazing. Congrats to El Cubo and commiserations to NieA7 for coming so close once again. A Halfling team wins the Gauntlin Goblet!

    ---

    I will get started on the season 3 spreadsheet this weekend. As before, the final format of the league will depend on the number of applicants and returning versus new teams.

    In the meantime we will decide on the new rosters to be included. So a quick straw poll follows. I'm only looking for yes/no answers, please no maybes - although you are free to add further comments or explain your decision.

    In all cases, the team's Star Players are allowed but mercenary options are confined to those positions on the below rosters.

    So please, give your opinion on the following three teams:

    1. Skinks Team in Season 3 - Yes or No?
    • Based on Lizardmen
    • 0-16 Skink
    • 0-1 Kroxigor


    2. Walking Dead Team in Season 3 - Yes or No?
    • Based on Undead
    • 0-16 Skeleton
    • 0-16 Zombie
    • (Feel free to go pure Zombie if you wish)


    3. Rotters Team in Season 3 - Yes or No?
    • Based on Nurgle
    • 0-16 Rotters


    I'll take a final tally on Monday night, and then the new spreadsheet will be opened for applications.

    We'll ignore Underworld and Chaos Edition for this season, even if it suddenly materialises before the season begins (just so people don't have to rush and buy it).
    Last edited by Screwie; 12-07-2012 at 10:40 PM.

  18. #698
    Secondary Hivemind Nexus groovychainsaw's Avatar
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    I'm going to regret this, but as an ogre coach, i think I have the strength to deal with str 3 players, and my snots rarely if ever block anyway (might get more guard, nonetheless). It's movement I'm concerned about and I think the skinks will prove unbeatable, but lets's try it anyway:

    1. Yes
    2. Yes
    3. Yes
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  19. #699
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    1. Skinks: Yes
    2. Walking Dead: Maybe/yes
    3. Rotters: Maybe/yes

    I don't think that non-stunty teams fit into the theme of this league, but then again I guess they would make the league more varied. I got a lot of practice in playing against goblin teams this season.

  20. #700
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    Hey guys, just to give a voice of experience on the Lizard issue my TT league has tried various forms of stunty tourney over the years and the conclusion we’ve come too is the best handicap for a Lizard team is actually making a full set of Saurus compulsory. Standard build Lizards have a horror match up against ‘flings, often struggle against Ogres and live nervously until the weapons are gone against Gobbos. Any half decent Lizard coach goes virtually all Skink in a Stunty environment by choice.

    In a Stunty league all Skink teams are dominant as speed rules while the big fellahs just get screened out of play and/or bloat the TV sitting on the bench giving up lots of lovely inducements for no on-pitch value. It is the number of skinks you need to limit.

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