Arkham Asylum and ill-concieved kleptomania in games

[sonson]

I started playing Arkham Asylum this weekend, was really enjoying the actual game itself but was being driven crazy by the amount of collectable ancillary shit floating around, found it to be tremendously immersion breaking.

There’s nothing so good at stopping plot momentum than these constant gimmicky reminders that you’re playing a game.

I’m playing a Batman game, I want to be Batman, I want to stomp heads, perch on Gargoyles, look broody and soak in the sumptuous atmosphere while navigating the Joker’s Labyrinthine schemes. If I wanted to collect floating markers I’d play Sonic the Hedgehog. And I like Sonic the Hedgehog, collecting flashy icons is great fun when you’re in the mood for that sort of thing, and I frequently am.

But in this context all it does is shatter the atmosphere and make the story feel like a weird abstract cleaning exercise. I’m going down corridors, breaking the narrative pace in fear of missing “content” that adds to the plot in terms of information but not in terms of how it is realised. It’s empty calories which make you feel like you’re missing out by virtue of ignoring them, but which don’t actually add anything by being there either. It’s not like Psychonauts where they were woven in the bigger picture. It’s just “Hey, Batman, I’m the Riddler, from the comics, collect my abstract canonicoal shit, videogames!”

If it were a Frank Miller page it would be two panels of Batman saving doctors and working out what was going on, three punching bad guys then another two just fucking running down identical corridors in order to pick up an incongruous flashing tape as big as Batman’s head, via a floating luminous question mark that does nothing, for no reason.


I’m all for things that feed kleptomania in games in which it either plays a key part, such as a platform game, or in Open world games such as Saints Row where plausibility is second to experimentation, but in something like AA it just ruins the spell for me time after time. Anyone else feel the same, or want to mention games that they feel are worth being aware of for this reason? AA is by far the most irritating example I’ve encountered so far, which is a shame because the actual being Batman stuff is superb.

[Poppis]

I didn't mind it at all. I played first playthrough without caring two shits about the collectables and then a second playthrough later where I 100%ed the game. Also it's been a while since I played AA but I'm pretty sure the collectables don't add in any way to the plot.

[Jesus_Phish]

Can't say I felt the same about it. I thought they were put in pretty well and added to the other aspect of being Batman, you know, the "Worlds Greatest Detective" part. And everything you found in that game added more information to it.

The history of Arkham Asylum and it's creation was very interesting. Solving The Riddlers riddles felt like a side story for the main plot of the game. If it was a comic, it would've been the mini-story at the back of the regular issues.

The tapes were great because they reviled information on the inmates of the asylum and how they ended up there.

None of these things added to the plot anyway. They were all just extras so people could learn more about the Batman universe. Finding Harley Quinns audio log didn't tell you anything else about the plot of what Joker was up to, but just tells you how she ended up going from being one of the employees of the Asylum to one of the inmates because of her obsession with The Joker.

The only ones I thought where in any way "gamey" where the teeth, but it's plausible that The Joker would have had people leave those around the place to tease and taunt at Batman.

[AshEnke]

The floating balloons were a little useless, but I liked the Riddler's enigmas. When I'm playing Batman I don't want to be stomping heads like the Hulk, perching on Gargoyles like Spider-Man. I want to be the best detective in the world, I want to solve puzzles and use my intelligence.

I played the game while stopping from time to time to solve a few puzzles, when nothing was too pressing, and when the game was over I got to business and solved them all. It was a nice compromise and a nice experience.

[sonson]

Can't say I felt the same about it. I thought they were put in pretty well and added to the other aspect of being Batman, you know, the "Worlds Greatest Detective" part. And everything you found in that game added more information to it.

The history of Arkham Asylum and it's creation was very interesting. Solving The Riddlers riddles felt like a side story for the main plot of the game. If it was a comic, it would've been the mini-story at the back of the regular issues.

The tapes were great because they reviled information on the inmates of the asylum and how they ended up there.

The only ones I thought where in any way "gamey" where the teeth, but it's plausible that The Joker would have had people leave those around the place to tease and taunt at Batman.

The teeth felt fine to me, The Joker does stuff like that. Likewise the Beetle Blocks, you discover them while floating around in places Batman would end up, so again no issue there, merges the Dynamic element and the detective element well. And I also like the Info on the tapes, just not the way that info was dispensed. That's my main complaint.

And the mini story at the back is at the back for the reason, rather than bled into the main story. If it had been at the back as it were, i.e a mini game or set apart from the main bit, or part of a + game once completed, no problem.

I get that Batman is a detective, but in that case-let me play as a detective. The Riddlers riddles don't require detective work, they require that you go to an obvious point in the room after following lame clues, and they have no purpose at all other than to be solved. What does Batman learn after solving them? What happens? Does the plot advance, does it give him any indication as to what to do next, any insight into the current situation? No, because they exist outside of the narrative. Something flashes on the screen and a Deus Ex Riddler says something. They're just gamification. Press the "Detective" button to be a detective basically.

[Jesus_Phish]

Well that's in how you play it then. None of this riddles are required are they? Except for one I think, the very first one where he introduces himself into the game? The rest I believe are totally optional?

Any other time you're using detective mode, it's for progression of the actual story line if I remember correctly. Stuff like seeing footprints and fingerprints on safes and avoiding clouds of poison. None of that's to do with the Riddler.

I didn't play Tomb Raider (newest one) but I've heard that has a lot of immersion breaking collectables in it.

[sonson]

Well that's in how you play it then. None of this riddles are required are they? Except for one I think, the very first one where he introduces himself into the game? The rest I believe are totally optional?

Any other time you're using detective mode, it's for progression of the actual story line if I remember correctly. Stuff like seeing footprints and fingerprints on safes and avoiding clouds of poison. None of that's to do with the Riddler.

I didn't play Tomb Raider (newest one) but I've heard that has a lot of immersion breaking collectables in it.

You have to use the Detective button to find most of the Riddler's clues in my experience so far, to scan potential riddles. I really like the detective button when it's used as part of the actual game stuff.

Don't get me wrong, if you can play it without getting irked at it then all power to you, I wish I could too! It's undoubtedly a very good game, I just wish it either hadn't been as excessively generous up front, or more nuanced in doing so. Or that I wasn't incapable of not compartmentalising things.

Is City just more of the same, out of interest? Given it's Open ended nature I think I could see past it easier there mind. Reading what I have of Tomb Raider I get the impression that it has a similar emphasis on collectables aye.

[Jesus_Phish]

City is more of the same, but it's easier to ignore everything you don't want to do. Because it's open world, all the stuff like the Riddler missions/puzzles, tracking down criminals like Bane and Deadshot are much easier to ignore. It wasn't until after I finished the game and went back to it that I even found out Deadshot was in the game.

The best way I think to describe them it that AA is like a graphic novel of Batman. It's one story, in a contained place. AC is like Batman: The Animated Series. You've got one main story that runs along through a whole series, but then you've got all these one off episodes used to break up that main story line. The side missions are those one off episodes.

[Henke]

If the core gameplay is fun enough on it's own, then collectables and the like are a good way to add extra gameplay cheaply. In games like the GTA's, Red Dead Redemption, Far Cry 3, and, yes, Batman:AA/AC I very much appreciate the extra stuff, because it gives me an excuse to keep playing after I've finished the main story.

The Riddler trophies are better integrated in AC, since collecting them actually unlocks further sidemissions. But I liked them in AA too.

[Sparkasaurusmex]

Personally I found the Riddler trophies more annoying in City. It's like a giant level you are in and whenever you glide around you see all these glowing green things everywhere.
It didn't frustrate me or anything, but I do recall thinking, "why do they put all that crap in this game?"
I think the answer is that this stuff is for a different type of gamer.

[Ninjafoodstuff]

It didn't frustrate me or anything, but I do recall thinking, "why do they put all that crap in this game?"
I think the answer is that this stuff is for a different type of gamer.

I realised a couple of years ago that adopting a completionist approach is detrimental to my gaming. Hence I'm now able to actually finish a game and move on with my life.

[Drinking with Skeletons]

I can definitely understand the frustration at this element of the game. I'm a bit of an obsessive, and tying an obsessive-minded task to defeating an iconic supervillain means that any replay of Arkham Asylum and Arkham City is defined by a tedious retread of collecting all of that stuff again.

I think the Riddler was done better in Arkham City. The challenges are much tougher, often requiring you to perform maneuvers that you frankly never have to do otherwise. Moreover, some of them have alternate methods of completing them (including one that seems to have been designed with a certain gadget in mind, but can be completed before obtaining it, making the Riddler's fury that you solved his "impossible" room all the sweeter). Finally, collecting all the clues actually does direct you to the aforementioned Riddler Rooms, where you have to rescue a hostage in peril. It's still very "gamey," but you do actually do something that kind of looks like detective and superhero work.

[Xercies]

I liked it it did make me addicted to trying to find the riddles and stuff and was a nice distraction sometimes to the main game and made it more feel like metroidvania. Though i do wish sometimes the designers would let me explore for exploration sakes to many designers think we want trinkets see Assasins creed and it just takes away from the exploration since you start to not care about the beutiful vista but the flag you need to get.

[lordcooper]

I despise almost all instances of collectable distractions in games. My assassin shouldn't care about collecting flags, my cyborg security chief dude shouldn't hug the left wall in every room to make sure he doesn't miss a chocolate bar, my murderous genetically manipulated self shouldn't have to scour every corner for audiologs. It's lazy design and a feeble attempt at extending playtime at the expense of immersion.

The Riddler stuff was handled fairly well though.

[Theblazeuk]

City is more of the same, but it's easier to ignore everything you don't want to do. Because it's open world, all the stuff like the Riddler missions/puzzles, tracking down criminals like Bane and Deadshot are much easier to ignore. It wasn't until after I finished the game and went back to it that I even found out Deadshot was in the game.

The way I see it? Batman would find Bane. And Deadshot. And the Riddler's Hostages.

He would not find all the little trophies though. Give me a meaning that matters and I'll find all the little toys, if I'm finding them for the sake of finding them - well, I'm out. I was a completionist in Baldurs Gate because having all the shineys (pack rat you is) made sense, made me stronger and gave me lots of money - and also provided me with lots more gameplay for my buck.

I did like the backstory stuff though so I don't think AA or City did this particularly badly, it just wasn't something that appealed to me. Though yes, their constant presence was a little distracting and broke the suspension of disbelief somewhat.

[Jesus_Phish]

Pretend that under the base of every little trophy is a letter or symbol and when he gets them all its a puzzle that he has to solve in order to defeat the Riddler. That's what I did.

[Hypernetic]

I've quit more than one game because of this. It's not that them being there bothers me so much as my OCD doesn't allow me to enjoy the game at all when they are there. The whole time I'm playing all I can think about is "Did I miss one? Should I go back and check? What if I can't go back after a certain point and I miss them forever?". I end up getting so frustrated with myself that I just stop playing the game.

[Rath]

I enjoyed the puzzle solving aspect of locating all the Riddler trophies, it gave me a satisfied "Got you" feeling every time. Collect 'em all quests in general usually aren't as well done though. The pigeons in GTA IV spring to mind.