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  1. #1
    Moderator QuantaCat's Avatar
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    Wasteland 2 : Reviews & Reception

    Discuss!

    Ill start by saying this is one of the shittiest reviews ive ever read:

    http://www.pcgamer.com/review/wastel...ame=0&ns_fee=0

    these are adams thoughts on W2, havent read it through yet:
    http://www.rockpapershotgun.com/2014...land-2-review/

    as for me, I want to hold out on playing it until the first patch.
    Last edited by QuantaCat; Yesterday at 08:34 AM.
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  2. #2
    Activated Node Maritz's Avatar
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    I'm downloading it now. Apparently downloading the 5GB beta yesterday hasn't prevented me from having to download the 8GB full release today, and there was me thinking I'd be prepared.

  3. #3
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    pcgamer review seemed ok to me.
    I'm getting the impression it's good but not great, and a bit clunky. Leaving reviewers with not much exciting to write about.

  4. #4
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    Adams "review" is kind of missing a lot of stuff. But it seems that today a review should be some sort of meta comentary that never mentions actual gameplay or specifics of a game.

    The most one can figure out from this wot i think is that there is a lot of clicking....
    And he mentioned writing isnt exspecially good - without explaining why or providing any examples at all.

    There is no mention that any ranger party made by any player will have ALL skills available, there is no mention of false choices like those between AG center and Highpool, no mention of NPCs supposedly being killed by mutated vines but happily dishing out exposition for half an hour...

    Thats considered spoiling the game now?

    So... PR has won completely?

    And those are just two small examples. There is lots more to talk about.


    -
    And NO Adam, this is not the real Fallout 3.
    It tried to be but ... nein.

    Definitely and irrevocably - no.

  5. #5
    Secondary Hivemind Nexus Lukasz's Avatar
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    whatever is wrong with this game hopefully will be fixed for Torment and for Pillars. Those two (with torment the most) i am really excited about.

    downloading it at the moment. will write few words after i put at least a couple of hours.

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    Torment is actually done by a different team of Lead developers and writers, which are all excellent people and masters of the craft, so im not worried that bad design and writing of W2 will impact Torment at all,... baring some CEO "swooping down" to streamline stuff... but i believe/hope/think that wont happen that much in this case.


    In PC gamer review they mention that you can brute force a safe that you failed to "safecrack" (lockpicking is a different separate skill in W2,btw). In the beta content you could do that only on a few specific safes or loot lockers where the game allowed it specifically. Not on all of them.

    If they changed that to "all" then it devalues and makes dump skills from both falsely split lockpicking and safecracking.
    Last edited by Surface; Yesterday at 11:14 AM.

  7. #7
    Secondary Hivemind Nexus somini's Avatar
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    Richard Cobbett's review is more in-depth
    http://www.eurogamer.net/articles/20...eland-2-review
    But it reaches mostly the same conclusions.
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  8. #8
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    Quote Originally Posted by Surface View Post
    But it seems that today a review should be some sort of meta comentary that never mentions actual gameplay or specifics of a game.
    Unfortunately it seems a fact of life that reviewers are never going to have the time, the inclination, or the expertise to do good analysis of game mechanics and systems. That's what game forums and wikis will have to do, but it is annoying because there's a lot to sift through in such places to find good stuff.
    Irrelevant on further examination of the rest of the thread.

  9. #9
    Secondary Hivemind Nexus somini's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by NathanH View Post
    Unfortunately it seems a fact of life that reviewers are never going to have the time, the inclination, or the expertise to do good analysis of game mechanics and systems. That's what game forums and wikis will have to do, but it is annoying because there's a lot to sift through in such places to find good stuff.
    Don't feed the troll.
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  10. #10
    Secondary Hivemind Nexus b0rsuk's Avatar
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    Unfortunately it seems a fact of life that reviewers are never going to have the time, the inclination, or the expertise to do good analysis of game mechanics and systems. That's what game forums and wikis will have to do, but it is annoying because there's a lot to sift through in such places to find good stuff.
    Which begs the question why are they reviewers in the first place if a youtuber can do their job better. I'm pretty sure the better youtubers will eventually replace traditional reviewers, especially that you can make a decent profit that way.My opinion though is that the RPS reviewer struggled to say something meaningful without spoiling. It's the nature of the (classic) cRPG games that they're very vulnerable to spoilers.I kickstarted this game and will play it no matter what, but it is worrying metacritic user scores so far are in the 60s. I hope it's just the high percentage of couch gamers these days.
    pass

  11. #11
    Secondary Hivemind Nexus Wenz's Avatar
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    There isn't such thing as a youtuber worth your gaming time be it reading reviews or watching gaming stuff etc.
    post in progress

  12. #12
    Secondary Hivemind Nexus b0rsuk's Avatar
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    There isn't such thing as a youtuber worth your gaming time be it reading reviews or watching gaming stuff etc.
    Yes, there is.You can write several pages of text and not give the reader an idea how a game plays. This is much harder if you're talking about a game while playing it. It depends on genre, of course, but in some of those I play (for example 2D shooters) a minute can be enough to judge a game as trash.Case in point: Nuclear Throne vs Risk of Rain. For an experienced player the first immediately appears to be visceral, skill-based and fast-paced. In contrast, RoR looks more like a MMO. Combat is anemic and focused on cooldowns, not aiming and doging. Strategic layer of the game (long term) is "how do I best stack damage and defense modifiers".Another game I have absolutely no intention of playing is Awesomenauts, for very similar reasons. After playing the heck out of Teeworlds, it just looks boring.With turn-based games this is harder, because they take a while to appreciate and evaluate. Latest Heroes of Might and Magic, Age of Wonders III look quite similar but the latter has much more depth, with possibly the only downside that it's not as good for a quickie and hot seat (AoW III takes approx 50% more time).
    pass

  13. #13
    Secondary Hivemind Nexus Wenz's Avatar
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    I guess there might be an analysis part but then again they' ll end the review with "who's this game for? Casuals? Hardcores? Is it good enough for *insert whatever you choose*? Here, have an 8.7". Otherwise titanfall would be around 6 or something
    Last edited by Wenz; Yesterday at 12:38 PM.
    post in progress

  14. #14
    RPS post seemed quite positive to me with only a few minor nitpicks. I'm looking forward to enjoying it myself.


    Quote Originally Posted by b0rsuk View Post
    Which begs the question why are they reviewers in the first place if a youtuber can do their job better. I'm pretty sure the better youtubers will eventually replace traditional reviewers, especially that you can make a decent profit that way.
    There will likely always be an majority place for written articles when it comes to real world news with the exception of headlines and interviews. I hope it will remain the same for all topics. I find it much easier to assimilate large amounts of detailed information from text rather than recorded voice.

  15. #15
    Secondary Hivemind Nexus Drake Sigar's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by b0rsuk View Post
    Which begs the question why are they reviewers in the first place if a youtuber can do their job better. I'm pretty sure the better youtubers will eventually replace traditional reviewers, especially that you can make a decent profit that way.
    I reckon the video format will become more dominant (they've been heading that way these past few years), and written reviews will take a backseat, but they'll always be around. I'm not going to actively cheer on the death of written reviews.

  16. #16
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    Certainly an RPG of this particular style demands a person knowledgeable about this specific kinds of RPGs to fully present whats good or not. Im usually very satisfied with how Adam writes and how he critiques games, but lately he also went too much into meta commentary.

    I have made two reviews of the beta, going into much more actual details and how things actually work, but i cannot claim its a review of the full game. (havent downloaded the update to full version yet) - and it will take me some time to check the California part too. Which i hope will be better then the first half... but i dont put much stock into such hopes.

    Still, betas really dont change significantly for the final release...

    anyway, Corbet:

    Your badge is both a symbol of hope - albeit one tarnished of late by the Rangers' less-than-stellar ability to get things done - and a target on your chest guaranteed to draw the worst of the Wastes' attention. In Arizona, your job is largely to make it mean something again while repairing radio towers to get a fix on an incoming threat with a personal grudge against the Rangers.
    This is just a meta commentary. There is no actual such feeling of tension in the game. Nobody is hunting you, you have all the time in the world to go from one place to another.

    Worst of Wastes attention sounds so romantic - but its just some easy to kill raiders in random encounters that keep bringing you however much XP and loot you want and a few basic types of "mutated" animals which are more funny then dangerous.
    You have your wasteland wolves, frogs, small worms and flies and some bunnies.

    "worst of wasteland attention" braaaaaahhh....braaaaaaahhhh...

    Needless to say, you have to fight a lot of people, and many factions are hostile to the Rangers by default.
    Not true. There isnt a single faction in Arizona that is hostile by default. - random enemies and robots dont count since they are not residents of anything -

    There are, however, often diplomatic solutions to problems, from paying a toll to simply doing someone a favour, with a number of quests having knock-on effects.
    Not really true.
    - Or... well, it is true in some places, in others there are just some text tweaks that pretend to be consequences.

    Save some travellers and they'll probably show up later;
    yes... end?

    fail to stop a man's house burning down, and he's not going to support a pro-Rangers Mayor in a later vote.
    Which has zero relevance on anything except a small change in text for that location.

    Combat is ultimately unavoidable, though, and it's one of Wasteland 2's least interesting things (the least interesting of all being how often you have to scour the maps looking for tiny objects and objectives). Combat is turn-based, and fine, but limited to ducking behind cover, switching on overwatch to get pot-shots when enemies get close, and only occasionally breaking things up by landing an opening hit or throwing a grenade. There's no locational targeting save a double-or-nothing headshot option, and your guys are each going to be using their specialist weapon most of the time, upgrading it when the next tier appears. There's really not much to it and it quickly becomes more a chore than a challenge.
    Thats not really how things go but i guess it depends from a player to player.

    All about combat in W2 is depending on the encounter design.

    Irf you are fighting stronger enemies with better weapons, some armor and a lot of HP, the combat as it is comes into its own kind of style.

    And it can be entertaining - since situation like that force you to use a bit more tactics, then just shooting from cover - which in the case of W2 means choices on how to combine and position your different characters with their different combat skills. You will have one sniper at least, one or two melee fighters and the others will sport automatic weapons, pistols, heavy weapons where various bombs also belong, or energy weapons (every character can easily have two kinds of weapons skills on high).

    This is especially notable coming to Wasteland 2 from Divinity: Original Sin - which, admittedly, has it a bit easier by being able to splash magic and monsters around, but still set a standard by which this game feels distinctly weak.
    True but maybe worded too strongly.... OS turn based combat is evolved, improved TB combat. W2 is somewhere bellow what original Fallouts presented but its faster, more actiony and punchy in good combat encounters.

    There's no saving in fights - which can be very long indeed, especially if you make enemies of a whole faction - and your party members can die for real, after which it's reload time.
    And thats one of the good things about w2.

    There aren't enough recruitable NPCs to fill their slots
    Yes there is. Angie at the citadel, apparently one ranger too if you loose one memeber of the team, Scotchmo the hobo in Rail Nomads, Ralphie the idiot too, Rose in Ag center and Vulture Cries in Highpool (the two mutually exclusive), one Mad Monk, one paramilitary trooper from another faction in that area, and one or two smaller NPCs from some smaller additional sub quests which are all exceedingly horribly designed.


    and you need a full team to handle the number of enemies around, as well as for skills like lock picking, surgery, and toaster repair.
    Nope, you can do it with just four rangers if you want. You wont have all the skills immediately with a team of four but you dont really need all of them. For example, putting various non combat skills at just a few points is enough for the half of the Arizona and you dont need several types of weapons skills per ranger anyway.

    Later, you will easily have all skills that are in the game.

    There's much more guidance and direction given than in the RPGs it harks back to,
    True, the dialogue box on the right side of the Ui is actually serving as a quest compass and hand holder for the ... 95 - 99% of the time of content i played.

    there's an economy in which you're never poor as long as you've got a bag of dildos, old game consoles and empty cat litter bags... which is all the time,
    True. No scarcity anywhere in sight here.

    Several different ways to earn a lot of money. They are funny but... post apocylpse 80s - 90s america is not scarce in anything. There is so much stuff to carry around that it makes investing a point or two in Str a kind of necessity, which otherwise is a dump stat for any except melee characters.

    the necessity of creeping around the map to avoid a bad combat initiation.
    Wut?

    That often makes exploration a real slog, especially when you start coming across enemies like sharpshooters and distance-closing robot drones.
    Those are the only interesting encounters...

    These mostly minor issues aside, Wasteland 2 is a great sequel.
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    Last edited by Surface; Yesterday at 12:49 PM.

  17. #17
    Moderator Anthile's Avatar
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    The problem is that videos often turn (perhaps unintentionally) into highlight reels, showing only the best or most noteworthy sections of a game. On the other hand you have games that are played by entertaining youtube personalities that make them look funnier or more interesting than they actually are, i.e. Goat Simulator or Surgeon Simulator. Then you still have the problem that video creators are even more vulnerable to "sponsorship" deals due to nonexistent supervision.
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  18. #18
    Secondary Hivemind Nexus somini's Avatar
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    Serioulsy, Surface, goddamn it! Good lord.
    "fail to stop a man's house burning down, and he's not going to support a pro-Rangers Mayor in a later vote."
    Which has zero relevance on anything except a small change in text for that location.
    What you are arguing is "It's a videogame! Of course people don't die for realz". The other criticisms you make are RPGCodex-level of nitpicking that really just piss people off. I also have irrational hatred for a lot of videogames, but writing thousand and thousand of words about how UTTERLY SHITE things are doesn't convince anyone. Go outside, it's probably sunny.
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  19. #19
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    Quote Originally Posted by Drake Sigar View Post
    I reckon the video format will become more dominant (they've been heading that way these past few years), and written reviews will take a backseat, but they'll always be around. I'm not going to actively cheer on the death of written reviews.
    If it happens, it happens. I'll probably stop paying any attention to reviewers then, much as I'd hate that. I read many, many times faster than any video can show me information, and I can gloss over any bits I don't like much quicker and more efficiently. Given I don't really share the sense of humour of most streamers and don't find most of the ones I've seen have a particularly interesting personality then the majority of YouTube, Twitch etc. is useless to me. Forum posts I like up to a point, but even the better ones can't replace a good critic, and the worst are just page after page of incoherent ranting which I'm not going to pay any attention to no matter how good the points within might be.
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  20. #20
    Secondary Hivemind Nexus Skalpadda's Avatar
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    Haven't played it yet, but Adam's Wot I Think didn't tell me much beyond him overall having fun but being annoyed by UI tedium. I've played a tiny bit of the beta and seen a bunch of preview stuff but I can't imagine someone not familiar with the game - or even new to the genre - taking all that much away from it.

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