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Thread: PC Bargains

  1. #9461
    Secondary Hivemind Nexus LTK's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by sonson View Post
    Quite frankly-you don't know that. Because unless you have read the terms and conditions of the specific lunch deal that has been mentioned, you can't be sure. For all we know, there might be such stipulations.

    I actually think it's a very good analogy because there is no obvious reason to not be generous with the components of the lunch deal if you don't want them, and the likelihood that very few people, yourself included, have consulted the Ts and Cs to see if they corroborate with that obvious conclusion.

    I missed how I did the latter part., the car thing.
    While pontificating on about the value of morals-what are your thoughts on patronising people for no good reason as you did just now?
    There's just one other thing you should remember. If your lunch bundle came from KFC, I won't care if you give a random person your soda. If it came from an artsy lunchroom that only uses organic and free-range products, keeps their recipes open and free, and donates to food charities, I'm gonna tell you to get your own soda because those people need it and deserve it and we should encourage them to keep doing it.

  2. #9462
    Quote Originally Posted by trjp View Post
    Well - when you post your spare keys, the person who gets one just MIGHT have bought the bundle otherwise (or just might sell or trade it for personal gain). It's actually more likely to "kill a sale" than any form of piracy because one 'free and legal' key is one person NEVER buying that game - wheras pirated copies must sometimes turn into 'bought' copies even if just by chance!!
    Wait, so now it's wrong to convince someone to not buy something?

    Thank you, corporate culture, for creating the idea that it's immoral to do something which might prevent potential sales. This is the same logic that means parcel companies are allowed to sue national postal services because their government monopoly interferes with potential profits (or gas companies suing governments for health regulations, etc, etc.)

    trjp, I respect where you're coming from, but this is lazy thinking, and it's dangerous thinking. I don't give away my keys (though I'm tempted with SR3, because fuck Deep Silver), but come on. You're making piracy sound sensible by comparison.

  3. #9463
    Secondary Hivemind Nexus sonson's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by LTK View Post
    There's just one other thing you should remember. If your lunch bundle came from KFC, I won't care if you give a random person your soda. If it came from an artsy lunchroom that only uses organic and free-range products, keeps their recipes open and free, and donates to food charities, I'm gonna tell you to get your own soda because those people need it and deserve it and we should encourage them to keep doing it.
    If they made it CLEAR that that's what they wanted, then I would/will. As I have stated I will now do with the Humble Bundle, having discovered the fact.

    But it is far from obvious that is the case with the current arrangement other than if one is inclined to check the Ts&Cs; and indeed a positive element of human nature, generosity, would deter many from doing so in the understandable belief that, given the set up of the deal, there was nothing that should deter them from pursuing a course of logic which is usually seen as being a pretty good thing in daily life.
    Further, those who have checked the Ts & Cs should not go on at those who haven't as if their entirely understandable behaviour is somehow exotic or an attempt to justify bad behaviour

  4. #9464
    Secondary Hivemind Nexus alms's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by trjp View Post
    It's not a 'tune' - they get to make the rules, you get to abide by them. If you choose not to, you're the one who is morally wrong (and quite possibly legally wrong).
    Not sure how the word "moral" is used in the context of the UK legal system, where I live what's moral or not is down to personal beliefs for the most part, and not legally binding.

    From a legal standpoint, Humble can write whatever they want in their ToS - that does not make it legally actionable (in fact there's plenty of contracts that are null and void, often because their terms are in contrast with existing laws), let alone morally right or wrong.

    With that out of the way, if they ask to not share spare keys, they should avoid repeats in their bundles, and that's obviously not the case. Morally right or wrong?

    I am not any better and do not know any better than the average bear, yet I reserve the right to apply my own critical sense to statements I read on the Internet. I can see Humble has changed their mind about sharing keys, while at the same time, they keep stuffing me with repeats. Let's say I'm hardly impressed?

    Quote Originally Posted by trjp View Post
    You seem to think having a 'code' gives you the right to do anything you like with it - but that code came with some conditions and ignoring those isn't really any different to ignoring the 'games from the Pirate Bay are not like games from a shop' rule.
    The difference is that a shared extra bundle key has been bought and paid for, hence devs receive money from the sale (assuming the bundle organizers are not scum and there's no foul play on the publisher's part), which is clearly not the case for piracy.

    Quote Originally Posted by trjp View Post
    I have some DRM-free games I've acquired more-than-once - can I just send the 'spare' executables to anyone I like? How does that person know I'm not just 'pirating the game for them??'

    If you think of 'code' as 'game installer' does it become any clearer - because there's really no difference between those things.
    It's already been pointed out that most of us can't produce or even reproduce keys at will, so there's your difference. As for DRM-Free, I personally have no problem sharing an installer if I have a basic level of trust in the receiver and I happen to have acquired multiple licenses.

    If that makes a pirate of me in somebody's eyes, heh, I've been called worse and usually just as baselessly. It's kind of ironic when there's people posting on a regular basis about games they don't own, and I'm hardly the one throwing extra keys left and right - guess I will live anyway.
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  5. #9465
    Secondary Hivemind Nexus sonson's Avatar
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    Great post alms, methodically, eloquently and clearly expressed!

    Makes my responses look rubbish and inelegant too though so screw you!

  6. #9466
    Secondary Hivemind Nexus LTK's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by alms View Post
    With that out of the way, if they ask to not share spare keys, they should avoid repeats in their bundles, and that's obviously not the case. Morally right or wrong?

    I am not any better and do not know any better than the average bear, yet I reserve the right to apply my own critical sense to statements I read on the Internet. I can see Humble has changed their mind about sharing keys, while at the same time, they keep stuffing me with repeats. Let's say I'm hardly impressed?
    Their customers are obviously not limited to the people who have bought every single previous bundle. It's a bit weird to say "Well, I bought all these boxes of shoes at this one shop, and they keep offering to sell me a box with one or two particular pairs of shoes I already have, so of course I bought them, but what do they expect me to do with more of these shoes?"

  7. #9467
    Moderator Anthile's Avatar
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    What's the verdict on Anno 1404 Gold?
    to wound the autumnal city.

  8. #9468
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    Quote Originally Posted by GunnerMcCaffrey View Post
    Wait, so now it's wrong to convince someone to not buy something?

    Thank you, corporate culture, for creating the idea that it's immoral to do something which might prevent potential sales. This is the same logic that means parcel companies are allowed to sue national postal services because their government monopoly interferes with potential profits (or gas companies suing governments for health regulations, etc, etc.)

    trjp, I respect where you're coming from, but this is lazy thinking, and it's dangerous thinking. I don't give away my keys (though I'm tempted with SR3, because fuck Deep Silver), but come on. You're making piracy sound sensible by comparison.
    More than once on the RPS comments threads I've been called immoral or stupid for refusing to buy a game because it made decisions I found objectionable. It's amazing how corporations have convinced people they're entitled to our money, and how others will line up to defend them for it.

  9. #9469
    Secondary Hivemind Nexus Heliocentric's Avatar
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    You don't need to buy it, but you shouldn't give it to people that didn't.
    I'm failing to writing a blog, specifically about playing games the wrong way
    http://playingitwrong.wordpress.com/

  10. #9470
    Secondary Hivemind Nexus Sketch's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Anthile View Post
    What's the verdict on Anno 1404 Gold?
    Have you got any experience with the Anno games? Great game if you're in to strategy.
    steam: sketch

  11. #9471
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    Quote Originally Posted by Anthile View Post
    What's the verdict on Anno 1404 Gold?
    I liked what I've played of it so far (most of a weekend, in terms of hours). Don't install the Venice expansion without playing through the base game first unless you know what you're doing, as the expansion substantially alters the game content and seems to take away the tutorial levels, among other things.

    It seems to have a reputation of being one of the best Anno games, but I've not played the others. In terms of strategy, I found it a bit micro-manage-y, but very engrossing and with an appealing theme and good graphics.
    "Harry uses the One Ring to defeat Magneto and save the Rebellion!"
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  12. #9472
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    Quote Originally Posted by Heliocentric View Post
    You don't need to buy it, but you shouldn't give it to people that didn't.
    How videogames stole christmas.

  13. #9473
    Secondary Hivemind Nexus Heliocentric's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Serenegoose View Post
    How videogames stole christmas.
    There is a gift option at the checkout. Why don't people use that.
    I'm failing to writing a blog, specifically about playing games the wrong way
    http://playingitwrong.wordpress.com/

  14. #9474
    Moderator Anthile's Avatar
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    Thanks for your reviews. Almost forgot to mention the bargain itself! Getgamesgo are having a small Ubi sale, mostly strategy games. It wouldn't let me check out with my German address so I quickly changed it to UK and that did the trick.
    Also, the Getgames download manager is terrible.
    to wound the autumnal city.

  15. #9475
    Network Hub Choca's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Anthile View Post
    What's the verdict on Anno 1404 Gold?
    It's great, my favorite amongst the modern Anno games.

    Anno 2070 is a better game from a features standpoint but 1404 is just so adorably charming.

  16. #9476
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    Quote Originally Posted by sonson View Post
    Quite frankly-you don't know that. Because unless you have read the terms and conditions of the specific lunch deal that has been mentioned, you can't be sure.
    I'd expect such a stipulation to be quite prominent - (in the way they put "NOT FOR SALE SEPARATELY" on multipack cans they could put "DO NOT GIVE TO PEOPLE" on these cans!? :)

    Sort of the same way that Humble made their position on the bundle being a single purchase quite clear to me the last time I bought from them, during the checkout process and I believe in the follow-up email too.
    Last edited by trjp; 13-09-2013 at 07:35 PM.

  17. #9477
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    Quote Originally Posted by GunnerMcCaffrey View Post
    Wait, so now it's wrong to convince someone to not buy something?
    Eh? I said that if you GIVE SOMEONE A GAME they are unlikely to then buy that game again.

    How has that got anything to do with what you said (or thought I'd said?) :)

    As for calling people pirates - I didn't do that and don't want to encourage it. What I said was that handing-out codes from bundles which ask you not-to is the same as handing out copies of a game which asks you not-to, MORALLY speaking.

    In both cases you are ignoring the terms which someone asked you to abide by when you bought it - they may or may not be legally enforceable terms and you will probably draw your own line on what is and isn't acceptable but morally speaking, you're ignoring the seller's intent either way.
    Last edited by trjp; 13-09-2013 at 07:36 PM.

  18. #9478
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    BARGAINS!

    GMG have some weekend deals up - most notable is Expeditions: Conquistador at 50% off with GMG20-8MUTY-M21VN knocking-off another 20% of the remainder to make it a cheapest-yet 7.19 in UK moneys (and unlike the cheap GoG deal it's a Steam Key).

    Sang Froid is in there too - and Skyward Collapse for anyone who didn't jump at the Humble deal (incl the DLC)

  19. #9479
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    Quote Originally Posted by trjp View Post
    Eh? I said that if you GIVE SOMEONE A GAME they are unlikely to then buy that game again.

    How has that got anything to do with what you said (or thought I'd said?) :)

    As for calling people pirates - I didn't do that and don't want to encourage it. What I said was that handing-out codes from bundles which ask you not-to is the same as handing out copies of a game which asks you not-to, MORALLY speaking.

    In both cases you are ignoring the terms which someone asked you to abide by when you bought it - they may or may not be legally enforceable terms and you will probably draw your own line on what is and isn't acceptable but morally speaking, you're ignoring the seller's intent either way.
    I agree. I'd use my own standards to judge whether to ignore their request or not. If someone who I know doesn't sleep on a gold yacht in a bed of money asks me to perhaps recommend the bundle instead of giving away the bits I don't want, I'll consider it, and frankly I'll be a lot more inclined to respect their request, especially since they asked and didn't go 'we've got chained lawyers who only eat when they win a case.'

    If activision asked, I'd laugh myself a little hoarse, and then give away the keys as I saw fit.

  20. #9480
    Quote Originally Posted by trjp View Post
    Eh? I said that if you GIVE SOMEONE A GAME they are unlikely to then buy that game again.
    And I'm still struggling to see what's morally wrong about that. It's not my responsibility to make sure people buy things.

    How has that got anything to do with what you said (or thought I'd said?) :)
    Not sure how else to put it, to be honest. I object to the idea that giving is stealing, I especially object to the idea that it's stealing because it stops something from maybe being bought in the future, and I pointed out then when the same idea becomes generally acceptable, it results in edge cases like governments being sued for simply having health regulations on the books.

    In both cases you are ignoring the terms which someone asked you to abide by when you bought it
    They're free to ask, and I'm free to not agree. Our contractual relationship begins and ends when goods are exchanged. Why does the whole "free market" thing only ever seem to apply to rich people?

    Anyway, I think we're just going to keep talking past each other at this point, and I don't want to get shrill. Agreeing to disagree and all that, I'll go back on topic:

    THIS IS YOUR CUSTOMARY NOTICE THAT STARTOPIA IS ON SALE AT GOG AND YOU SHOULD BUY IT

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