Page 536 of 594 FirstFirst ... 36436486526534535536537538546586 ... LastLast
Results 10,701 to 10,720 of 11863

Thread: PC Bargains

  1. #10701
    Secondary Hivemind Nexus gwathdring's Avatar
    Join Date
    Aug 2011
    Location
    Washington State, USA
    Posts
    3,757
    Quote Originally Posted by Eight Rooks View Post
    I didn't mind the ending per se, just I'm not ashamed to admit my first thought was "Well, surely the right thing to do would be to let her stay dead?" and then I was furious to discover that this wasn't an option. Guys! You're making me walk right past lava pits which I could happily jump straight into before, only now they've all got invisible walls around them! Do you honestly not think someone might find that absolutely maddening?
    I think you misunderstood the ending, then. You had a choice. Have you ever seen the movie war-games? Now, normally I'm not on board with that sort of explain-away of a game's inability to produce favorable results or real choices. Except, here that was very much and incredibly explicitly the point. I thought it was one of the more intelligently designed endings I've ever encountered.

    I mean ... MAJOR SPOILERS of the worst kind (i.e. man-behind-the-curtain stuff rather than mere plot spoilers) the credits were even rolling. The game just didn't tell you "Good job, you're done." It didn't do that because it wanted to put the player into the Prince's head. It wanted you to feel "Crap ... is that it? Should I ... ooh, I can do this!" and do it. It wanted you to experience the imp of the perverse ... except it understood that your perversity needed mechanical prodding because you didn't feel the same way about the character as the Prince did. It understood that to emulate the Prince's emotions, it needed to create a different circumstance for you and it chose brilliantly, to do so with an intimate understanding of how gamers are used to being rewarded. The game tricks you. Frankly, if you don't like that you were tricked that's fine but don't pretend letting her stay dead wasn't an option. It so was. The ending is supposed to make you feel like the jerk who destroyed the world just because he was selfish and couldn't leave well enough alone--that's not a fun feeling nor are it's approximants. We're getting into some complicated design territory, now, and the question of how to judge the merits of a design that wants you to be uncomfortable. But I think the game deserves to be engaged at that level--not at the level of complaint that the choice is fake. That feels like it's missing the point by a mile It used your need for a very specific kind of closure to evoke the Prince's need to bring her back to life and his inability to leave well enough alone--damn the consequences. That, I feel, is inspired design. It's gorgeous. It's artful. It's exactly what I want my games to be doing. That's pushing the medium. It saddens me that something so finely crafted would be dismissed as not being interactive enough because it didn't give you what you wanted--good signposting a clear instruction set You might think tha's not what you want because you might associate sign-posting with quest arrows or what have you. But from a design point of view, it's exactly what you're asking for. It's the same thing. And that stuff has a place, but it's not at the narrative culmination of the game.Come on, are we mad as Deus Ex and Mass Effect for their push-to-end cop outs or are we mad at POP 2008 for doing something genuinely crafty and innovative that not only doesn't hold you by the hand but manipulates you in a way that evokes the emotional state of the characters?End Spoilers.

    The ending is the one thing POP tries that very few games do. It's the most unique feature of the game. It makes me sad that it would be the one part of the otherwise not-all-that-unusual game that you dislike. :(
    Last edited by gwathdring; 22-03-2014 at 08:24 AM.
    I think of [the Internet] as a grisly raw steak laid out on a porcelain benchtop in the sun, covered in chocolate hazelnut sauce. In the background plays Stardustís Music Sounds Better With You. Thereís lots of fog. --tomeoftom

    You ruined his point by putting it in context thatís cheating -bull0

  2. #10702
    Secondary Hivemind Nexus
    Join Date
    Jul 2012
    Location
    UK, Derby
    Posts
    1,576
    Quote Originally Posted by gwathdring View Post
    I think you misunderstood the ending, then. You had a choice. Have you ever seen the movie war-games? Now, normally I'm not on board with that sort of explain-away of a game's inability to produce favorable results or real choices. Except, here that was very much and incredibly explicitly the point. I thought it was one of the more intelligently designed endings I've ever encountered.
    Yeah, just no. No. Never, never, never, never, NEVER design any videogame with any situation where you are explicitly offering the player a choice between A and B (or C, or D, or whatever) and put in obvious, transparent, artificial barriers to stop them taking that choice where you have no reason to do so other than lazy design shortcuts. Invisible walls as a means to shepherd the player along are bad. They are a crutch, there is no excuse for using them, ever, and I say that as someone who has played, and loved, multiple games which do just that (the Yakuza series, say) - they are a blight on the landscape however they are employed. If you cannot figure out a way to allow the player a natural choice, no matter what you as the designer think of whatever options would be available, then don't pretend to offer them a choice at all, in any fashion, for any reason.

    EDIT: Just in case it's not clear, of course I'm aware that a ton of games break this rule. And yes, I would say that it's always a black mark against any game, at least to some extent. It's just that, like Yakuza, most of them don't do it so blatantly or jarringly.

    I read your spoilers, basically, I just don't agree. The game purports to offer you a choice, then removes that choice, not because of any clever narrative device, but because of dumb design issues. End of story. Make it a cutscene, or re-write that ending entirely. I was going to go into more detail about how I felt, but I was getting really angry over it, and I've learnt I don't do so well with anger on this forum. It isn't about being denied what I want; it's simply bad writing.

    Double EDIT: Uh, completely forgot this was in the Bargains thread. Whoops. Sorry to other forum people. :( Mods, by all means delete or edit this if you feel it's getting too far off topic again, etc. I'm leaving it for now just so it doesn't look as if I had a hissy fit then ran away.
    Last edited by Eight Rooks; 22-03-2014 at 11:07 AM.

  3. #10703
    Secondary Hivemind Nexus
    Join Date
    Jun 2011
    Posts
    5,348
    Quote Originally Posted by Rauten View Post
    The SSL certificate is issued to G2A.COM Sp. z.o.o.[PL] so I'm guessing it is a polish site, which would mean it's likely one of those grey market oopsthisgamejustfelloffatruck//oopsthisgameis70%cheaperinrussia sites.

    And no, I did not make up the "z.o.o." part.
    Yeah, they're Polish - details on their Facebook page (which contains the usual mix of happy plants and angry raging customers of course!)

    https://www.facebook.com/G2Acom

    I suspect your biggest risk is that UBI take umbrage at adding Asian keys to your Euro/US account and/or block that somehow - otherwise if you pay using a proper Credit Card (even if it's via PayPal) you have some fallback.

    That said - chargebacking something paid by PayPal is a fast track to getting banned from PayPal so hmmmmm

    p.s. you could just make a new UBI account for this I guess - it's not exactly complex...

  4. #10704
    Secondary Hivemind Nexus gwathdring's Avatar
    Join Date
    Aug 2011
    Location
    Washington State, USA
    Posts
    3,757
    Quote Originally Posted by Eight Rooks View Post
    Yeah, just no. No. Never, never, never, never, NEVER design any videogame with any situation where you are explicitly offering the player a choice between A and B (or C, or D, or whatever) and put in obvious, transparent, artificial barriers to stop them taking that choice where you have no reason to do so other than lazy design shortcuts. Invisible walls as a means to shepherd the player along are bad.
    You're kidding. First off, in PoP ... what does the ending have to do with invisible walls? You are given two choices: do a thing (that takes a while, you have time to think about it) or leave well enough alone.The choice is not explicit. You're just left standing there. The credits roll. The climax passes. You are given plenty of reason so say "That's the end then." You can CHOOSE to proceed and then you get a different ending. A less pleasant ending, but one with more closure. That is not lazy design. You don't have to like it but calling it lazy is itself incredibly lazy criticism. Lazy design is the ending of Deus Ex where they couldn't find a better way to show you choosing between three paths other than choosing between three buttons. THAT'S lazy. That's the most simplistic, reductive, unimaginative way to do what they wanted. That's what confuses me so much, here. PoP did something rather cool. It used experiential metaphor. It matched it's mechanical structure to it's narrative theme. What would you have rather it done? Given you a button prompt so you could press the "leave well enough alone" button and have the game go back to the main menu? Give you a cutscene that doesn't involve the player and doesn't make use of any of the interactive tools gaming has at it's disposal? You would really rather it do that then use game mechanics to tell a story?

    That's ... really disappointing to me. Not that you don't like the ending. Everyone has different tastes. But that you propose it would be better if it was more "Choose Your Own Adventure: A or B" and/or if it was just a cut-scene. That your alternative proposals are so boring. That disappoints me.


    I read your spoilers, basically, I just don't agree. The game purports to offer you a choice, then removes that choice, not because of any clever narrative device, but because of dumb design issues.
    What choice does it pretend to give you that you can't follow through on?

    They are a crutch, there is no excuse for using them, ever, and I say that as someone who has played, and loved, multiple games which do just that (the Yakuza series, say) - they are a blight on the landscape however they are employed. If you cannot figure out a way to allow the player a natural choice, no matter what you as the designer think of whatever options would be available, then don't pretend to offer them a choice at all, in any fashion, for any reason.
    How is ANY choice you make in a game not limited by artificial choices and invisible walls? That's such bullcrap. Games are all about manufacturing experiences. They don't grow on friggin' trees.

    Your argument here smacks of the "games should just be FUN get your stories out of my games" arguments people bring up when game narrative is criticized. Not because it's the same argument (it quite obviously isn't) but because to me it comes from the same sort of place. A place that isn't interested in games pushing the medium or playing with expectation or making us feel anything other than superficially engaged. A place that isn't interested in assessing games the way we do films and books but with nothing more than a heart-rate monitor, a stopwatch and a dopamine-probe. In short, it comes from a place that seems deeply disinterested in design. That doesn't mean you personally are deeply disinterested in design ... but I can't imagine someone saying that invisible walls and artificial choices are never a tool you can use positively without being deeply disinterested in design. Maybe that's my failing and not yours, but there it is.

    What would you have us do? Make every game an open world game? Make every corridor shooter literally take place in corridors? Make every story choose-your-own-adventure and/or cut-scene-o-rama? Never provide players with meaningful consequences without giving them heavily telegraphed "THIS WAY TO THE GOOD ENDING" signs?
    Last edited by gwathdring; 22-03-2014 at 07:43 PM.
    I think of [the Internet] as a grisly raw steak laid out on a porcelain benchtop in the sun, covered in chocolate hazelnut sauce. In the background plays Stardustís Music Sounds Better With You. Thereís lots of fog. --tomeoftom

    You ruined his point by putting it in context thatís cheating -bull0

  5. #10705
    Secondary Hivemind Nexus gwathdring's Avatar
    Join Date
    Aug 2011
    Location
    Washington State, USA
    Posts
    3,757
    I'm sorry for coming off so belligerent. I don't like design being called lazy. It's very uninformative. It's not a very useful distinction. And it's incredibly insulting to creators. The easiest route is sometimes the best route. It's not lazy to design a knife that has a narrow, beveled edge. That's practical. So what then IS lazy design? Lazy design is something you can't measure from the outside--lazy design is something we have to watch the designers while they work to see. At best, we can sometimes call obviously sloppy or careless work lazy ... but even then design is the product of a bajillion people over a bajillion hours. Sloppy and lazy don't necessarily go together in the game design environment. Even in Deus Ex's ending, my overly-casual example of a lazy ending, it's not so straightforward. They wrote themselves into a hole; what I feel they should have done was preference telling the story at the end over building the game--they preferenced the mechanical mission of giving players narrative choices over the narrative mission of making those choices have meaningful consequences and then did their best to split the difference. It's hard to call that lazy, for all that I wished they had preferenced meaningful consequences and not given you a in-the-moment choice over your ending but rather structuring it from the events that occurred throughout the game.

    Anyway.

    When you then go on to propose alternatives to supposedly lazy design that are not particularly interesting or inspired it just smacks of not caring. Cut-scenes are all about artificial narrative. I love cut-scenes. They have a place. There are cut-scene heavy games I find effective. But to say the mechanical narrative was overly artificial but say it would be better in a cut-scene which is the penultimate in spoon-fed, artificial game-event design? That seems really odd and, in the context of calling the original design lazy, somewhat aggravating. When you THEN go on to make ultimatums like "NEVER DO THIS AS A DESIGNER" it gets under my skin. Point out examples where it doesn't work, sure, but where do you get off saying a particular design tool never works as a net positive? For a brief second I thought you were saying "Of course there are exceptions" in which case fair game because we've all got different tastes but you then specified that the exceptions succeed in spite of that relatively objective design error. That gets under my skin. Especially since, again, games are wholly artificial constructs. We speak of mechanics for a reason! These are highly structured experiences. To criticize a game for it's ineffective structures as one thing. To criticize the use of structure and artificial path-making is just mind-blowing to me. That's so central to gaming. I don't understand how you could say that.

    I'm not normally belligerent when people don't like things that I like, is the thing. And I wanted to be clear that it was the attitude I perceive in your text that bugged me so much not the idea that you thought the ending I loved from one game was crap. That doesn't necessarily excuse me being rude if you feel I have been rude, but I wanted you to understand that nonetheless.
    I think of [the Internet] as a grisly raw steak laid out on a porcelain benchtop in the sun, covered in chocolate hazelnut sauce. In the background plays Stardustís Music Sounds Better With You. Thereís lots of fog. --tomeoftom

    You ruined his point by putting it in context thatís cheating -bull0

  6. #10706
    Secondary Hivemind Nexus
    Join Date
    Jun 2011
    Posts
    5,348
    Quote Originally Posted by Rauten View Post
    And no, I did not make up the "z.o.o." part.
    I forgot to pick that one up earlier - z.o.o. in Polish is 'Ltd' or "LLC" or "BV' (Dutch) etc. - it means "Limited Liability Company"

    They also have Zoos of course - some of which will be Zoo z.o.o. ;0

  7. #10707
    Lesser Hivemind Node Kodeen's Avatar
    Join Date
    Jun 2011
    Location
    USA
    Posts
    968
    The Gothic series is on sale again. I advise the Gothic Universe pack, which has the first three games, and not the rubbish that came afterwords. $5.

    http://store.steampowered.com/sub/6375/

  8. #10708
    Secondary Hivemind Nexus alms's Avatar
    Join Date
    Dec 2011
    Posts
    4,121
    Tales of Maj'Eyal is the new deal on DailyRoyale.

    http://www.dailyroyale.com
    Looking for you daily bundle fix? Join us on The onward march of bundles
    Stalk my Steam profile, or follow my fight against the backlog on HowLongToBeat.

    "You take the Klingon's detached hand"

  9. #10709
    Lesser Hivemind Node Bobtree's Avatar
    Join Date
    Sep 2011
    Posts
    591
    Dark Souls 2 preorder for $32: https://www.g2a.com/dark-souls-2-cd-...er-global.html

    Almost too good to be true, but the site checked out. My US credit card often doesn't work on EU sites, but charging it through Paypal worked. Reply email was in German, but signup is optional (the site FAQ is good). Release date is 4/25 for all regions.

  10. #10710
    Lesser Hivemind Node TheDreamlord's Avatar
    Join Date
    Dec 2011
    Location
    London
    Posts
    568
    Quote Originally Posted by Bobtree View Post
    Dark Souls 2 preorder for $32: https://www.g2a.com/dark-souls-2-cd-...er-global.html

    Almost too good to be true, but the site checked out. My US credit card often doesn't work on EU sites, but charging it through Paypal worked. Reply email was in German, but signup is optional (the site FAQ is good). Release date is 4/25 for all regions.
    Did you receive a steam key immediately, or is it supposed to be sent on release date??

  11. #10711
    Secondary Hivemind Nexus sabrage's Avatar
    Join Date
    Jun 2011
    Location
    GMT-7
    Posts
    3,323
    Quote Originally Posted by TheDreamlord View Post
    Did you receive a steam key immediately, or is it supposed to be sent on release date??
    The pre-order key is due to be shipped on the official release date of the product. Untill then the status of the transaction will remain "processing".
    Didn't stop them from charging me, mind.

  12. #10712
    Lesser Hivemind Node TheDreamlord's Avatar
    Join Date
    Dec 2011
    Location
    London
    Posts
    568
    Quote Originally Posted by sabrage View Post
    Didn't stop them from charging me, mind.
    Yeah, no thanks, esp from untrustworthy sites.
    Thanks for letting me know.

  13. #10713
    Secondary Hivemind Nexus
    Join Date
    Jun 2011
    Posts
    5,348
    Quote Originally Posted by sabrage View Post
    Didn't stop them from charging me, mind.
    You can't "pay in advance" with PayPal unless you want to setup a payment agreement with the vendor (which gives them ongoing access to your account which I'm not sure you'd want to do) can you?

    Gamefly use that approach and people have grumbled about it in the past (because it leaves a payment agreement open they can reuse in future)?

    I always assume that pre-orders through PayPal will be "instant charged" - thus I'd never pre-order from a site I didn't trust.

    That all said, I looked into G2A and they seem OK. There are complaints but they mostly seem to focus on people who've ordered keys which don't work in their country or they relate to various top-up card codes which weren't valid (and their support seems middling)

    There's a key comparison website here which has a feedback system for shops (including G2A) which might be handy in future?

    http://www.allkeyshop.com/blog/
    Last edited by trjp; 25-03-2014 at 10:08 AM.

  14. #10714
    Network Hub
    Join Date
    Jan 2013
    Location
    Belgium
    Posts
    353
    PSA: steam keys for Tales of Maj'Eyal are currently available for 2.04 euro on dailyroyale. It has been cheaper before, but only on Shinyloot, or as part of a bundle.

  15. #10715
    Lesser Hivemind Node Winged Nazgul's Avatar
    Join Date
    Feb 2012
    Posts
    620
    Titanfall Origin Keys for $45. This is a key for the multi-region version and this is where I got my copy so I can vouch for the guy.

    http://www.gamedealdaily.com/store/p...kTTHp3tyQ4AQg0

  16. #10716
    Activated Node Fireflower's Avatar
    Join Date
    Apr 2013
    Location
    MalmŲ, Sweden
    Posts
    79
    DRM-free Retro Bundle on FireFlower Games.
    It includes the Gobliiins Trilogy, Little Big Adventure 1 & 2, Raiden Legacy and Raptor - Call of the Shadows. 50% off all - €14.5 / $16.
    Carefully selected DRM-free games for Windows, Mac and Linux for direct download - http://fireflowergames.com/
    At least half the profit goes to projects that benefit the environment and game related projects.

  17. #10717
    Secondary Hivemind Nexus Similar's Avatar
    Join Date
    Jul 2011
    Posts
    1,024
    Fable: The Lost Chapters on Steam for 1.34 Euro. It's certainly worth that.

  18. #10718
    Secondary Hivemind Nexus somini's Avatar
    Join Date
    Jun 2011
    Location
    NEuro Troika Franchulate #3
    Posts
    3,428
    Quote Originally Posted by Winged Nazgul View Post
    Titanfall Origin Keys for $45. This is a key for the multi-region version and this is where I got my copy so I can vouch for the guy.

    http://www.gamedealdaily.com/store/p...kTTHp3tyQ4AQg0
    I thought this was the Bargains thread!
    :D
    Steam(shots), Imgur, Flickr, Bak'laag, why do you forsake me?

  19. #10719
    Secondary Hivemind Nexus
    Join Date
    Jun 2011
    Posts
    5,348
    Not your usual bargain but after that £11-odd AC4: Black Flag deal expired, I took a peek on eBay to see if those nVidia in-box codes were still knocking around - and there are loads still on there.

    Starting at £7.50 for a copy of AC4 Black Flag - given that it's £23+ everywhere else, that's VERY cheap!

    I won't link - you can find em easily enough. I seem to remember the redemption process is a bit of a pain-in-the-arse but that game hasn't been below £20 (with the exception of one glitch) anywhere else thusfar.

    p.s. to quantify 'pain in the arse' you have to goto nVidia and register your code which gives you another code - you then goto uPlay and 'buy' the game, entering the code you just got from nVidia to discount it to 'free' - and it will appear in your uPlay account and you can playzit...

  20. #10720
    Secondary Hivemind Nexus
    Join Date
    Jun 2011
    Posts
    5,348
    p.s. it's notable that most of the online 'codes' or 'keys' for AC4 will probably be either the nVidia code or the uPlay discount code from those cards anyway I guess - so chop-out that middleman ;0

Tags for this Thread

Posting Permissions

  • You may not post new threads
  • You may not post replies
  • You may not post attachments
  • You may not edit your posts
  •