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  1. #1
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    Minecraft's "Release"

    So, uhh...

    Why is Minecraft supposedly in a state fit for release after that terribad and anaemic "adventure expansion"?

    Is anyone else suspicious that Notch is just trying to find an excuse to release the cape / "premium map" DLC he's been talking about for months?

  2. #2
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    Or just being able to charge $20 instead of $15. :P

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    What "cape / premium map" DLC is this that he's apparently been talking about for months?

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    Quote Originally Posted by Mistabashi View Post
    What "cape / premium map" DLC is this that he's apparently been talking about for months?
    I'd find it but I'm lazy. It was in one of his blog posts about Steam, and in a few interviews too.

    Just him saying he'd like to sell capes or hand made maps, basically.

  5. #5
    Network Hub Taidan's Avatar
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    Defending Minecraft:

    Basically, the most recent patch added a bunch more nice stuff, a lot of which being stuff that Notch has saying for a while needed to be in the game before it was considered "A Full Game". (An "Endgame" with a "Boss", for example, as well as a few other bits.) Also, it seems to be pretty stable.

    Given "The Plan", they were always going to have to "Release" Minecraft one day, (And put that price up) and the completion of the most recent pair of patches (1.8 and 1.9/1.0.0 being two halves of what was supposed to be a single, final beta patch) seem as good a place as any to do it.

    In my humble opinion, I think it's a very fine game as it stands right now.

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    Quote Originally Posted by Taidan View Post
    Basically, the most recent patch added a bunch more nice stuff, a lot of which being stuff that Notch has saying for a while needed to be in the game before it was considered "A Full Game". (An "Endgame" with a "Boss", for example, as well as a few other bits.) Also, it seems to be pretty stable.
    The most recent patch is pathetic, to be perfectly frank. All it did was add about three enemies, a few more black types and a crappy dragon-boss thing.

    I'd go so far as to say that the most recent patch made the game feel MORE incomplete through the sheer lack of real addition. It's been the same from the past few patches (which were, I think, done completely by Notch's second in command, Notch has actually done very little lately), but I wasn't expecting for it to end up "complete".

    Quote Originally Posted by Taidan View Post
    Given "The Plan", they were always going to have to "Release" Minecraft one day, (And put that price up) and the completion of the most recent pair of patches (1.8 and 1.9/1.0.0 being two halves of what was supposed to be a single, final beta patch) seem as good a place as any to do it.

    In my humble opinion, I think it's a very fine game as it stands right now.
    Not to me. The game is not complete. If this was released as a full game right now with no promise of non-paid patches in the future, people would demand a refund. The "adventure mode" isn't fleshed out, the building is half-fleshed out and everything else is pretty much missing.

    EDIT: Compare this with the vampires that're coming into Dwarf Fortress next patch. Toady has worked quite a great deal on them, but admits that adventure-mode side stuff "is a bit lacking" due to the fact that it's currrently not possible to handle the concept of a vampire leading a nation - or at least not the concept of them handling it then being called out by an adventurer. Toady hasn't, however, claimed that his game is suddenly complete through this addition of a minor side feature.

    Nevermind the fact that patch is adding REAL undead (as in, necromancers, undead armies, if you lop off a hand it will come scurrying back to you and try to strangle you to death etc), massive sewer systems to computer generated towns, complex city plans... And don't forget more complex poisons, curses, improved invasions and 40~ animals requested by people with NEW TAGS (imagine new animal behaviours in Minecraft) added.

    THAT'S a real patch.
    Last edited by R-F; 21-11-2011 at 08:49 AM.

  7. #7
    Lesser Hivemind Node Juan Carlo's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by R-F View Post
    Nevermind the fact that patch is adding REAL undead (as in, necromancers, undead armies, if you lop off a hand it will come scurrying back to you and try to strangle you to death etc), massive sewer systems to computer generated towns, complex city plans... And don't forget more complex poisons, curses, improved invasions and 40~ animals requested by people with NEW TAGS (imagine new animal behaviours in Minecraft) added.
    Unrelated, but I completely don't understand why that Dwarf Fortress dude hasn't been awarded a MacArthur Genius grant yet. The whole purpose of the award is to support/shine a light on people toiling away at brilliant bits of cultural esoterica which otherwise might not be supported. Dwarf Fortress seems perfect for that.

    I've never actually played Minecraft, though. I guess I'm the only one left.
    Last edited by Juan Carlo; 21-11-2011 at 07:40 PM.

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    IMHO Minecraft hasn't had a 'full' release until Bukkit is update to handle all the new features.

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    Activated Node Matzerath's Avatar
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    There's an 'Endgame' now?! I had no idea!

  10. #10
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    I think the problem is that everyone saw Minecraft as an investment; you paid for the game during development with the understanding that it'd get better and see new features. Early on in the project the risk was that the game would go bust and you'd get a half-finished buggy mess, but after Minecraft achieved critical mass it was obvious that there was pretty much no risk at all and you'd get a good, playable game. Now it's finished, and people aren't happy with the recent updates, and the "finished" title implies (for most) that this is it and you're not going to get anything else unless it's through DLC.

    The problem is that Minecraft never really ended up including any real progression, which is something I was hoping it'd learn from Terraria. Even with stone equipment I can take down Endermen and Creepers and after the first night nothing is a threat unless I'm not paying attention. So your only real goals are: Go to Nether, go to The End. And then... build? Which would be fine because Minecraft excels as a building and exploration game, but I think everyone was expecting the Survival Mode to be expanded a lot more to keep it challenging. As it stands, spending about 10 minutes after learning the basics is enough to handle pretty much anything except The End. And after The End nothing important happens, so who cares?

    Terraria had more boss characters and pre-requisite equipment progression for resource gathering, which kept pushing you towards the goal, which could last quite a while. Minecraft completely lacks this. The End just seems tacked on, like something they threw in simply to say "Minecraft has a final goal for players so now it's obviously finished." Ultimately nothing in the final patch radically changed Survival gameplay, which is probably what people were expecting.

  11. #11
    Lesser Hivemind Node Kaira-'s Avatar
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    Haven't really tried MC after the 1.8.x-patches, since I couldn't be arsed to fix "Minecraft has run out of memory"-problem which came with the patches, so I can't really comment about the state of the game as it is. However, what's the state of modding API? Has it been released already?

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    Quote Originally Posted by Kaira- View Post
    Haven't really tried MC after the 1.8.x-patches, since I couldn't be arsed to fix "Minecraft has run out of memory"-problem which came with the patches, so I can't really comment about the state of the game as it is. However, what's the state of modding API? Has it been released already?
    Hahahahah.
    Hahahahahahahahah.
    Hahahahahahahahahahahah.

    Oh, that was a GOOD ONE.

    Wait, you mean you're serious? You don't know?

    Notch said, "Screw modding API, that's too much work for a man who eats as much steak for breakfast as me! I'll just release the source code to certain trustworthy modders because that'll never have issues." or something along those lines.

    Quote Originally Posted by Taidan View Post
    Well, each to their own, I guess.

    I too would love to see more and more directed content thrown into the game, and I would love for the Mojang team to get off their collective arses and start adding weekly updates to the game again, but as it stands the core of the game is still more about the "Toybox" side than the "Game" side and thus is not going to appeal to everybody.
    Uhh, what.

  13. #13
    Lesser Hivemind Node Kaira-'s Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by R-F View Post
    Hahahahah.
    Hahahahahahahahah.
    Hahahahahahahahahahahah.

    Oh, that was a GOOD ONE.

    Wait, you mean you're serious? You don't know?

    Notch said, "Screw modding API, that's too much work for a man who eats as much steak for breakfast as me! I'll just release the source code to certain trustworthy modders because that'll never have issues." or something along those lines.
    Yeah, I remembered that much that he'd throw the source code to modders. Badly worded from my part though. Um, so, I guess this means that there are no other ways to get access to source code now other than decompiling, or is there somewhere where one can sign up as modder? Would be curious to see what one could do in a small time-frame.

  14. #14
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    Quote Originally Posted by Kaira- View Post
    Yeah, I remembered that much that he'd throw the source code to modders. Badly worded from my part though. Um, so, I guess this means that there are no other ways to get access to source code now other than decompiling, or is there somewhere where one can sign up as modder? Would be curious to see what one could do in a small time-frame.
    I don't think he's even done that yet, to be honest.

  15. #15
    Secondary Hivemind Nexus soldant's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Kaira- View Post
    Haven't really tried MC after the 1.8.x-patches, since I couldn't be arsed to fix "Minecraft has run out of memory"-problem which came with the patches, so I can't really comment about the state of the game as it is. However, what's the state of modding API? Has it been released already?
    The out of memory errors are fixed by installing Java 7. I didn't know this until someone specifically pointed it out to me. Fun fact: they're on the Oracle website, the Java website has a little link in the sidebar or something pointing you to Java 7's beta page on Oracle's website.

  16. #16
    Network Hub Taidan's Avatar
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    Well, each to their own, I guess.

    I too would love to see more and more directed content thrown into the game, and I would love for the Mojang team to get off their collective arses and start adding weekly updates to the game again, but as it stands the core of the game is still more about the "Toybox" side than the "Game" side and thus is not going to appeal to everybody.

  17. #17
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    I'm disappointed with the half-arsed approach Notch took. Release 1.7.3 was great. As a framework for the modders. Minecraft was a nice vanillia blank slate, where you could play in and the mods would give you everything you'd want (guns, airships, the technic pack, 'better than wolves') It really is the modding community who made Minecraft shine and that community could have taken Minecraft to the next level(s) if they had a proper SDK or something to work with.

    Instead, Notch injected a less then mediocre 'game' into Minecraft. No story, no content, no goals (well, an Ender Dragon, and I found the tech-demo dragon that flew around in the normal world to be more impressive). I wonder if Notch ever played vanilla Minecraft...

    Really Notch, release a SDK, less work for you as you don't have to create subpar content anymore. Actually, revealing the SDK at Minecon would have made that event interesting at all. Minecon seems to me as a mere egoboost for Notch...

  18. #18
    Secondary Hivemind Nexus Rii's Avatar
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    Minecraft was released the day they started charging money for it. This practice of media outlets waiting to review the game until The Man sez it's ok is vomit-inducing obsequiousness.
    Last edited by Rii; 21-11-2011 at 07:33 PM.

  19. #19
    Secondary Hivemind Nexus pakoito's Avatar
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    The problem is the java 3D engine doesn't allow for much to be added without a toll of computer, time and more than a 3-4 man team.

    Look at Terraria's next patch. It's the first real content (non fix) patch since release in May (Pre Minecraft's Adventure Patch):
    There are 39 new monsters, including 4 brand new bosses. We've got three new NPCs, all waiting to be rescued. And for the loot obsessed, there are 222 new items, including 4 sets of armor, and 21 accessories.
    Also Notch stated in his blog that he blamed only himself for the state of modding and API, but "but when it comes to the new launcher, it got folded into a new exciting project I won’t talk about yet.". So it's not going to be any modding API for a while.
    Last edited by pakoito; 21-11-2011 at 08:13 PM.

  20. #20
    Secondary Hivemind Nexus sabrage's Avatar
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    I can't believe the sense of entitlement R-F is effusing here. It's not like Minecraft is in an incomplete state; it's a finely polished game that has received more content since its inception two years ago than almost any other game. The design principle that drives Dwarf Fortress (content and complexity over all else) renders it an exceedingly poor point of comparison to other games. Dwarf Fortress is legendary for it. Regardless of what Notch has "promised," as if any development update has ever been an indication of what you'll actually get, Minecraft is a limitless and massive game and everything to come is just icing on the cake.

    If I ever had customers that behaved the way you do, I wonder why I'd bother at all. You're acting like a child that didn't get all the toys he wanted at the store.

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