View Poll Results: Is SWTOR any good?

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  1. #41
    Network Hub Taidan's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Moleman View Post
    2. The one flashpoint (Esseles) I did raised a few questions. I'm not quite sure how the light/dark side choice works in there- I'm assuming the points are awarded based on what you choose, but the instance continues on based on how the person who wins the role chose, but that's just from the UI showing light side point gains on a per person basis- no one picked dark side in my group, so I don't know how that went. It also seems like a dedicated healer or even tank isn't strictly necessary (we were playing pretty recklessly and were never really challenged), but I don't know how that's going to scale to the higher levels.
    From what I saw, it's pretty much how you think it is. The action itself follows the choice of whoever wins the conversation roll, but it's your own choice that awards you Light/Dark points. In otherwords, it's perfectly possible to be in a group with people who take all of the Dark Side actions, but you won't personally be affected by their choices. Even if you're grouped with evil doers and they win every single conversation roll, your own reputation remains untarnished, no matter how bad things get.

    Quote Originally Posted by Moleman View Post
    3. Related, I think that the basic skills that allow you to heal/tank aren't subclass specific, with each subclass getting you improved heals and tanking skills. But I can't be certain- and something bugged last night so my inquisitor didn't get to train a healing skill even though he was the healing sub specialization, so God knows what's going on there.
    That had me confused for a couple of minutes. There's a second tab at the top of the skill trainer's window that contains all of your sub-class skills, which are sub-class specific. It doesn't go out of it's way to call attention to itself, I never noticed it was there untill I realized I was missing a bunch of skills, and started hunting.

  2. #42
    Network Hub Ninjafoodstuff's Avatar
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    Seems to me the people who are commenting that they're enjoying it, like it for the MMO aspects, but the people that don't are looking at it as a successor to KOTOR.
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  3. #43
    Lesser Hivemind Node TillEulenspiegel's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Ninjafoodstuff View Post
    Seems to me the people who are commenting that they're enjoying it, like it for the MMO aspects
    If you like WoW-ish MMOs, SWTOR is a good game in that vein. Absolutely. As I said in another thread, I think it's better than Rift.

    If you think there's more to be done with the greater MMO genre than WoW-alikes, well...

  4. #44
    Secondary Hivemind Nexus Smashbox's Avatar
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    Disclaimer: I have not played it.

    It seems like EA's playing a dangerous game here, much like swoop-bike riders threading the needle in Beggar's Canyon. If what we've heard is true, this is the most expensive video game ever made, aka the Death Star of video games, yet it seems to be part of a waning subgenre (albeit a damn huge one). Are people burned out on this type of game from Wow, or is a change of scenery enough of a new hope to reinvigorate the genre? If it isn't, will this go down as an Executor-class failure?

  5. #45
    Network Hub Taidan's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Ninjafoodstuff View Post
    Seems to me the people who are commenting that they're enjoying it, like it for the MMO aspects, but the people that don't are looking at it as a successor to KOTOR.
    As a veteran of various text-based MUDs, Ultima Online, EverQuest 1&2, (only a month of the latter, bad timing!) Star Wars Galaxies, WoW, (from launch day until a couple of months into Cataclysm) Eve, LOTRO, Rift, and at least a month of almost every other MMO, and yes, KOTOR, throw me in with the people who are disappointed with the game as it stands.

    To be fair, it's not all SWTOR's fault. I'm sure if I was new to the genre, the staple addictive qualities of the theme-park MMO would have grabbed me by the balls and not let me go for a while, regardless of the game's relative quality.

    As it is though, I can honestly say I'd rather go back to another month of WoW or Rift than play SWTOR. Forgetting all talk of the relative innovations that these games are bringing, (At which point SWTOR loses out anyway) I found the stories and core gameplay mechanics of most of SWTOR to be just... plain boring. There's no other way of putting it. Even WoW has moved waaaaay past the bits of WoW that SWTOR is faithfully emulating.

    Apart from the Smuggler, that is. Did I mention I enjoyed the Smuggler stuff yet? I really should write that down at some point ;)

  6. #46
    Network Hub Dubbill's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Taidan View Post
    Even if you're grouped with evil doers and they win every single conversation roll, your own reputation remains untarnished, no matter how bad things get.
    Yes, you earn dark/light side points based on your intentions, not the outcome.

    The whole dark/light system is flawed. Earning enough points allows you to buy light/dark items but there are no rewards for having a neutral score (at least last time I played. I haven't got that far in this beta session). This leads to players choosing based on the gear they can unlock, instead of making the correct choice for their character. If you want access to the most best items you need to decide to be dark or light and then stick with it rigidly through every conversation.
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  7. #47
    Secondary Hivemind Nexus Skalpadda's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Dubbill View Post
    Earning enough points allows you to buy light/dark items but there are no rewards for having a neutral score (at least last time I played.
    So just a set of points to grind for gear rewards, like a rep faction in WoW? Not that good/bad alignments have ever been handled in a great way in Bioware games, but that's a real shame.

  8. #48
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    For those who got further than me in their characters, do your light/dark choices do anything other than give you points? Like for example as a Jedi Consular I chose to let that one couple carry on that relationship in an early quest, which is apparently evil as fuck to do, yet there wasn't any repercussion for lying to the questgiver about it. I think if that sort of thing actually happened then it would be a pretty cool step for mmos.

  9. #49
    Secondary Hivemind Nexus Ravelle's Avatar
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    I have a level 15 dark character that got to Tier 1 Dark which gives you the ability to wear special armor that requires the wearer to be Tier 1, same goes for light. I've read also you get additional conversation options though I have not encountered them yet.
    Your appearance will also change much like the KOTOR games, though I have to admit I didn't see much change since I had a Zabrak with facial tattoos so couldn't really see if anything had changed.

    I have no idea if light sided character will also have appearance changes, did they the good side have feature changes in the KOTOR games?

  10. #50
    Secondary Hivemind Nexus Berzee's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Ravelle View Post
    I have no idea if light sided character will also have appearance changes, did they the good side have feature changes in the KOTOR games?
    They started to glow with a beautiful aura =P
    (for realz)

  11. #51
    Secondary Hivemind Nexus Berzee's Avatar
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    Though that might have been limited to portrait only, I can't remember.

  12. #52
    Secondary Hivemind Nexus Skalpadda's Avatar
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    Only on the character screen.

    Quote Originally Posted by Ninjafoodstuff View Post
    Seems to me the people who are commenting that they're enjoying it, like it for the MMO aspects, but the people that don't are looking at it as a successor to KOTOR.
    I'm a big fan of KotOR and I also played and enjoyed WoW for ages, played a fair bit of LotRO and I've poked my head in the door of some other MMOs as well. When TOR was announced I thought it might be great as a mix of two things I really like; a big massive MMO world + Bioware stories and characters. After playing it though, it seems like it doesn't manage to capture the great bits of either, which is disappointing.

  13. #53
    Secondary Hivemind Nexus Jockie's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Skalpadda View Post
    So just a set of points to grind for gear rewards, like a rep faction in WoW? Not that good/bad alignments have ever been handled in a great way in Bioware games, but that's a real shame.
    TBF, the Dark/Side light side thing might be a mechanic first and foremost, but it also allows the kinds of situation you absolutely never see in an MMO - let me elaborate (minimal spoilers - how many mmos actually have spoilers for a start).

    There is a questline on the First post-newbie Imperial planet, where you are tasked with investigating a Revanite cult, and the responses you give there are not just, click for faction gain responses, they get to to the core of what kind of Imperial you are. Are you the type who blindly, cruelly follows orders? Or are you interested in exploring other paths, that aren't necessarily good or evil? I can't say much without ruining it, but it was pretty well written and delved into the mythos of both Kotor games in a really engaging way.

    It went beyond a lightside/darkside alignment bar on the character sheet for me (perhaps because I'm invested in the franchise).
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  14. #54
    Network Hub Dubbill's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Jockie View Post
    It went beyond a lightside/darkside alignment bar on the character sheet for me (perhaps because I'm invested in the franchise).
    It would be great if everyone played like this but the whole alignment system is far too transparent in its approach. I think that most players will choose the option they feel is right for their character during their starter planet quests but once they see the rewards available on the vendors and notice the titles other players are sporting that will soon change. It's also far too easy to play the system - you can mouse-over dialogue options to see their dark/light impact and you can hit escape to cancel out of any conversation and restart it if you make the wrong choice. Any notion of roleplaying will be discarded by the average player in favour of gear and titles.

    Maybe I'm overly cynical after min-maxing my way through WoW but I'd be much happier with the system if it was invisible to players until each quest is completed. At least then you'd have to think about your conversation choices.
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  15. #55
    Secondary Hivemind Nexus Jockie's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Dubbill View Post
    It would be great if everyone played like this but the whole alignment system is far too transparent in its approach. I think that most players will choose the option they feel is right for their character during their starter planet quests but once they see the rewards available on the vendors and notice the titles other players are sporting that will soon change. It's also far too easy to play the system - you can mouse-over dialogue options to see their dark/light impact and you can hit escape to cancel out of any conversation and restart it if you make the wrong choice. Any notion of roleplaying will be discarded by the average player in favour of gear and titles.

    Maybe I'm overly cynical after min-maxing my way through WoW but I'd be much happier with the system if it was invisible to players until each quest is completed. At least then you'd have to think about your conversation choices.
    True, it's entirely possible I considered my options because I knew being in a beta that my character was essentially disposable (and that whatever alignment grinding choices I made were kind of pointless)
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  16. #56
    Secondary Hivemind Nexus Skalpadda's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Dubbill View Post
    Maybe I'm overly cynical after min-maxing my way through WoW but I'd be much happier with the system if it was invisible to players until each quest is completed. At least then you'd have to think about your conversation choices.
    If there's anything the daily quest and badges systems in WoW have shown, it's that players will almost universally opt for repetitive grind for rewards rather than doing something they find fun for the sake of fun.

  17. #57
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    What if the light/dark side stuff was purely a role-playing thing and had no gear rewarded for itself whatsoever, so it just affected the story? Although I suppose you'd hit the problem of where players are supposed to get higher-tier gear from.

  18. #58
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    Personally I was INSANELY exited when BioWare told us on that E3 that they where going to make a Star Wars MMO. At that time my eye where still hurting every night from playing WOW until 3 AM. Yeah I loved the game that much.

    Then a few months ago there was that clip of actual beta gameplay and after 60 seconds of it I was like "Oh, dam... WOW in Star Wars skin'', even the dam XP gain from the mob kill was the SAME EXACT purple color. But I still had my hopes.

    Then when I finally got into that Beta weekend my hopes where finally and utterly destroyed. Seriously after playing WOW for literally thousands of hours, playing SWTOR was the same thing all over again. And I have no need or wish to play that same gameplay again for the rest of my life.

    I know they made it a WOW clone so players could come over from WOW more easily, but lets face it its a full on clone with upgrades unique to BioWare.

  19. #59
    Activated Node Stormbane's Avatar
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    I tried the beta and canceled my amazon preorder. I'm not too keen to pay $20 shipping on that. I think I can wait till they bring it to the red zone.

    Here's hoping GW2 lives up to expectations.

  20. #60
    Secondary Hivemind Nexus Ravelle's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Jockie View Post
    TBF, the Dark/Side light side thing might be a mechanic first and foremost, but it also allows the kinds of situation you absolutely never see in an MMO - let me elaborate (minimal spoilers - how many mmos actually have spoilers for a start).

    There is a questline on the First post-newbie Imperial planet, where you are tasked with investigating a Revanite cult, and the responses you give there are not just, click for faction gain responses, they get to to the core of what kind of Imperial you are. Are you the type who blindly, cruelly follows orders? Or are you interested in exploring other paths, that aren't necessarily good or evil? I can't say much without ruining it, but it was pretty well written and delved into the mythos of both Kotor games in a really engaging way.

    It went beyond a lightside/darkside alignment bar on the character sheet for me (perhaps because I'm invested in the franchise).
    They could have improved the alignment if they went with converations, like they did with Mass Effect, where you're not able to see what the moral of your choice is. Mass effect had also those grey area of good and bad and answers that you thought were good but gave you dark points instead, it's dialogue reponses were also better written out which made you think for a moment of what answer you should pick, it was more based on your actions and personality than choose dark or good.

    In TOR you can clearly see what option is dark or good with most of the time simple responses such Kill this guy Dark and let him live and walk away good. including the red and blue alignment maker next to it.

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