According to CT magazine, Origin is not spyware.

[IDtenT]

Steam trolls not living up to their usual standards.

I'm curious though. All these accusations of a bad EA history where consumer rights are concerned - where does that come from? I'm sure a lot of you don't always like what they have done, but where exactly have they infringed upon your rights?

[FuriKuri!]

Perhaps the current controversy over forum comments preventing you accessing ANY of your origin EA games?

Historically I'd agree they're not really much worse or much better than any of the other big-name publishers. Though there was controversy over them axing online servers for some of their sport franchises as soon as the new version was released. Most rights issues are an EULA problem which, while perpetrated by EA, aren't explicitly caused by them.

[Kadayi]

If Battlefield 3 or The Old Republic was selling for a fiver on Origin a lot more people would be using it...

I picked up Batman:AC off origin for £25 recently which was pretty good. Where as on Steam it was £35. I think it's worth keeping an eye out with regard to their sales tbh.

Historically I'd agree they're not really much worse or much better than any of the other big-name publishers. Though there was controversy over them axing online servers for some of their sport franchises as soon as the new version was released. Most rights issues are an EULA problem which, while perpetrated by EA, aren't explicitly caused by them.

I think their axing of the sports servers was for titles that were a few years older, however the decision was based on user statistics. By on large the multi-player side of those titles was dead in terms of numbers. one should also note that taking the servers offline didn't mean you couldn't play the games single player though.

[Taidan]

Once again, prove that Origin is spyware. Innocent until proven guilty!

And once again:

Note: I can already tell that you either didn't read it, or that you did and you just didn't get it, and that you're itching to reply and quote, so I'll put it clearly: Yes, I didn't state in either this post or the first one that Origin is spyware.

Did you get it that time?

Note: I can already tell that you either didn't read it, or that you did and you just didn't get it, and that you're itching to reply and quote, so I'll put it clearly: Yes, I didn't state in either this post or the first one that Origin is spyware.

How about that time?

Note: I can already tell that you either didn't read it, or that you did and you just didn't get it, and that you're itching to reply and quote, so I'll put it clearly: Yes, I didn't state in either this post or the first one that Origin is spyware.

Better?

Maybe I should make a YouTube video with cats, and sing that over the top.

[Taidan]

I'm curious though. All these accusations of a bad EA history where consumer rights are concerned - where does that come from? I'm sure a lot of you don't always like what they have done, but where exactly have they infringed upon your rights?

Ahh, I get it. You've been asleep for a while, and missed all of the news...

Anyone want to dig up the relevant threads and RPS news items and link them?

[IDtenT]

Ahh, I get it. You've been asleep for a while, and missed all of the news...

Anyone want to dig up the relevant threads and RPS news items and link them?

:| That's not an argument.

[ReverendMoosey]

Actually, if you read the articles RPS has put up regarding EA's recent decisions, you'll understand why Taidan brought them up.
Incidentally, if you're debating something with someone and they point to some resources that back up their position, that is an argument.

[Kadayi]

Incidentally, if you're debating something with someone and they point to some resources that back up their position, that is an argument.

If they refer to something, they should directly link to it as a rule tbh.

[Grizzly]

It is an unwritten rule actually: The one who gives an argument should provide the evidence that underlies that argument.

[Nalano]

Problems people have had with EA before Origin:

- Buying up good developers and shutting them down (Origin, Bullfrog)
- Buying up good developers and laying off a lot of their staff (Dreamworks)
- Buying up good developers and turning them into one-trick ponies (Westwood, Maxis, DICE, Bioware)
- Attempting to buy up good developers (Take Two)
- Screwing gamers on prices and running afoul of anti-trust legislation
- Setting the standard for sweatshop practices and unpaid overtime
- Using SecuROM DRM, complete with rootkits, and setting up install limits
- Usage of dubious EULAs to block class action lawsuits after a string of them
- Usage of dubious ToSs to block customers from single-player games for online grievances

In this stead, people are inclined to see Origin as more of the same, and will comb over every minor detail to figure out just how EA will manage it this time.

[IDtenT]

It is an unwritten rule actually: The one who gives an argument should provide the evidence that underlies that argument.

Basically the scientific method. Anyways...

- Using SecuROM DRM, complete with rootkits, and setting up install limits
- Usage of dubious EULAs to block class action lawsuits after a string of them
- Usage of dubious ToSs to block customers from single-player games for online grievances

Standard legal and industry practices.

- Buying up good developers and shutting them down (Origin, Bullfrog)
- Buying up good developers and laying off a lot of their staff (Dreamworks)
- Buying up good developers and turning them into one-trick ponies (Westwood, Maxis, DICE, Bioware)
- Attempting to buy up good developers (Take Two)

This has got nothing to do with consumers.

- Screwing gamers on prices and running afoul of anti-trust legislation

Thank you. That's the only one that lists infringement on the rights of consumers. None of the others do. Not to say that other big software companies have not done the same thing - it comes with the territory. That is of course, if the case was won - which by the sounds of it, it wasn't.

EA might have done wrong by you on something, fine, but that doesn't not mean that they use illegal consumer practices to get there.

[Nalano]

Standard legal and industry practices.

If you dismiss "screwing customers" as standard legal and industry practices, then there is nothing we can discuss.

[Megagun]

CT magezine also noted that Origin does not automatically detect any EA games already installed on your computer, and the only way to add games to Origin is to enter their respective CD key. They subsequently cracked an EA game and luanched it trough Origin, which worked just fine.

You know, this seems rather odd to me. Back when I had a copy of Crysis 2 installed that didn't belong to me, and when I was in the process of buying it through another digital distributor for myself, Origin noticed that I had Crysis 2 installed before I attached the Crysis 2 key to my Origin account. This, to me, seems to discredit the research made by C'T Magazine, unless the inner workings of Origin have seen some changes lately. This was before the big scanning hoola-hoop, so it could be feasable that they changed it afterwards due to the bitching about it.

I guess this is why I prefer to do my own research, usually.

EDIT:

- Buying up good developers and shutting them down (Origin, Bullfrog)
- Buying up good developers and laying off a lot of their staff (Dreamworks)
- Buying up good developers and turning them into one-trick ponies (Westwood, Maxis, DICE, Bioware)
- Attempting to buy up good developers (Take Two)
- Screwing gamers on prices and running afoul of anti-trust legislation
- Setting the standard for sweatshop practices and unpaid overtime
- Using SecuROM DRM, complete with rootkits, and setting up install limits
- Usage of dubious EULAs to block class action lawsuits after a string of them
- Usage of dubious ToSs to block customers from single-player games for online grievances

This is a nice bridge towards my feelings regarding Origin and Steam. Although I admire Origin from a technical standpoint (XMPP, Akamai, Amazon EC2 and Qt seems like a great foundation to build software on!) and I like most of what it has to offer (a sane, single-window non-hideous UI unlike Steam's multiple-window monstrosity that I can never get used to!), I am not too fond about many practices of the company behind it. Although I can vaguely understand using SecuROM or any other form of DRM (SecuROM and StarForce were quite widespread a few years ago) and I don't think that their EULAs are legal in the EU or actually even worse than 99% of EULAs (they're all awful!), I think that some of the more recent stuff like banning people from playing because they made a stupid forum posts is going a tad too far. As such, I'd love to see Steam be more like Origin, and EA be more like Valve. Each of these two companies can learn from each other's actions, and each of their software distribution platforms can learn from the competitor's offerings.

[IDtenT]

If you dismiss "screwing customers" as standard legal and industry practices, then there is nothing we can discuss.

No. It was in defence of EA, not in defence of the practice. You can't single out EA if what they're doing is something everybody else are also doing.

[trjp]

Couple of quick things

Piracy is not 'theft' or 'stealing' - they are both crimes where someone takes someone's property with the intention of permanently depriving them of it and that's clearly not the case. Piracy is 'copyright infringement' - anyone using the other terms is scaremongering or attempting to make people look bad because 'copyright infringement' clearly isn't cutting it - next up it will be 'digital rape' perhaps...

Spyware hasn't been defined by anyone here and so it's really hard to know how that argument will end. For some people, spyware is clearly anything they don't really like the sound of wheras for other people it's software which contains a hidden/malicious code intended to record something about a PC/how it's used and report that back to the creator of the software (without the person installing it being aware that it's happening).

[Nalano]

You can't single out EA if what they're doing is something everybody else are also doing.

They're the largest PC publisher.

Therefore I can.

[soldant]

Maybe I should make a YouTube video with cats, and sing that over the top.

Yes, please do. Have it on my desk by 1400 tomorrow GMT+10, thanks!

But it's obvious that you believe that Origin is not harmless and "does not have your best interests at heart", also stating it's a marketing tool. So far the only marketing Origin seems to do is in its store page, which is in fact even less intrusive than Steam which starts a pop-up box advertising current deals. If you imply "marketing" by the simple fact that EA games now require Origin, then I can make the exact same argument for Valve's games, and therefore claim Steam is no better than EA. You might not have explicitly stated that Origin is spyware but it's obvious that the implication is there. Otherwise your opposition would not make mention of marketing because it's entirely irrelevant nor is it specific to Origin itself.

[Nalano]

and therefore claim Steam is no better than EA

Every time I read this - which is quite often nowadays, since it's apparently the second-most favored argument on RPS - it reminds me of the "lesser-evil" problem with voter enthusiasm in politics. Look, we're in a balls-to-the-wall race to the bottom and you're arguing over who's beating out the competition.

[Kadayi]

- Buying up good developers and shutting them down (Origin, Bullfrog)

I'm fairly sure EA has been through a few CEOs since then, so maybe (just maybe) it's high time you got over your baggage perhaps? Plus maybe a few of your other long term grievances as well? Just saying.

[Nalano]

I'm fairly sure EA has been through a few CEOs since then, so maybe time to get over your baggage perhaps? Maybe a few of your other long term grievances as well? Just saying.

There is no point in EA's history that they've slowed down in their insatiable acquisitions of developers.

Yes, Carmack said in 2008 that EA was no longer the 'Evil Empire' due to changed leadership, mainly in the form of Riccitiello. And then EA bought Playfish and laid off 1500 empoyees the same day.