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  1. #1
    Secondary Hivemind Nexus coldvvvave's Avatar
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    Dawn of War: Retribution - Multiplayer

    So, anyone plays Retribution?

    If yes than what faction? What hero? Whats your opinion on balance?

    Maybe even throw your Steam username here.

    Some useless text below contains my experience with DoW2.

    I wonder if spoiler tag works.

    [spoiler]
    Ok, I've been playing DoW 2 since first beta and Multiplayer balance kept bothering me, not that I disliked it or game itself, but there were some issues in this field, Relic kept rolling out patches and hotfixes evry now and then, pressured by vocal community. So, in the beginning, I decided to read up some DoW 2 Community forums and some DoW2 Gamereplays forum, shortly I learned that every race and hero is overpowered ( they call it OP) and deserve to be nerfed. Most terribly OP race was Tyranids, or at least most people who didn't play Tyranids agreed on that. Ravener Alpha was everywhere. At the time I played Ork Mekboy mostly 1v1 against other DoW2 noobs in closed beta, my w/l ratio was roughly 1 to 1. It was fun, but then everyone said Mekboy was OP ( mostly because of his godly mines) so I switched to Kommando Nob. It was fun too, but then everyone said Stikbommas were OP ( they were) so Relic decided to overhaul the whole balance. THE WHOLE BALANCE. That was already after release. There Is Only War Patch changed everything. I don't know for better or worse, but Stikbommas were still considered OP or worthless by people who actually used this unit. Wartrukk stopped stuttering in every bush. Kommandos recieved a Kommando Nob with a hammer ( ranged unit with a melee leader, pretty cool, huh?), and Stormboyz were still pretty weak and expensive. And then Relic decided to add a Race. Symbolically, it was called Chaos. But Relic didn't stop on that, they added another race - Imperial Guard. Now, everyone bash IG for being overpowered. I play IG. I can't move to anything less overpowered. I miss Kommando Nob. Balance is really something that doesn't belong in DoW2 but i still like it.[/spoiler]

  2. #2
    Obscure Node jackspade's Avatar
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    Play a lot of MP and last stand. There's an RPS group for this game actually, where you might be able to find people to play with. I play with Adeste quite a lot in ranked but haven't really played with anyone else yet :).

    And for the record, DOW2 balance is pretty damn good. The only thing I would say is that Orks need a slight buff because they simply can't hold their own against SM and Chaos atm, but other than that it mostly boils down to skill and unit selection.

  3. #3
    The most sigh-inducing thing about DoW2 is the fact that while it's based on the same sort of gameplay as Company of Heroes, the latter is still a much better and more interesting game.

    It certainly isn't because of the setting, because I love the WH40k setting.

    Still, I be getting Retribution soon and I look forward to giving multiplayer a go... though I'm slightly worried there won't be anyone around on automatch.

  4. #4
    Obscure Node jackspade's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by lunarplasma View Post
    The most sigh-inducing thing about DoW2 is the fact that while it's based on the same sort of gameplay as Company of Heroes, the latter is still a much better and more interesting game.
    I think that's pretty subjective :). Loads of people I play with much prefer DOW2 over CoH. In fact, I do too. More varied units make for more interesting tactics and gameplay imo.

  5. #5
    Quote Originally Posted by jackspade View Post
    I think that's pretty subjective :). Loads of people I play with much prefer DOW2 over CoH. In fact, I do too. More varied units make for more interesting tactics and gameplay imo.
    True, true. I should have added a 'this is just my opinion on this game' disclaimer to my original quote. :)

    I also failed to mention The Last Stand. That's nice, and suits me better than Operation: Stonewall from CoH.

  6. #6
    Secondary Hivemind Nexus The JG Man's Avatar
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    I've never been a big fan of DoW MP unless I was playing with friends against bots. Last Stand is a good mode for that, but at times can become by-the-numbers. I'd certainly like to give DoW 2's MP a proper go, but I'm one of those people who when it comes to RTS', likes to be slow and build up. I used to give CnC3's MP a whirl, but meh, always someone quicker. Name's Joelteon7 on Steam, so feel free to add me and if you feel like it, annihilating me at Retribution :)

  7. #7
    Obscure Node Toamouse's Avatar
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    I only played Last Stand on the DoW2 games myself but generally speaking it was good fun, people exploiting the maps etc didn't ruin the game (hopefully most have been fixed by now!). Like others I tend to always be slow at building in RTS games so I get wiped out usually! :P

  8. #8
    Obscure Node Mr. Icarus's Avatar
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    I opted for the Last Standalone, being as I haven't worked through DoW2 & Chaos Yet. LOVE the Last Stand though. If anyone cares to group up, my Steam tag is Mr. Icarus, shoot me a message and let's play :)

  9. #9
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    I've been learning to play DoW2 MP and I'm really enjoying it. I'm mostly playing Ork Mekboy. I keep meaning to spend more time learning other races, but the joy of the Ork voice acting keeps bringing me back. I'm not nearly skilled enough for balance issues to affect me much at all- I pick a race based on what I enjoy playing. I do tend to stay away from really popular stuff.

    The critical part of my brain tells me that CoH is probably the better game, but I do love the colour and bombastic joy of all those wonderfully realised 40K models.

  10. #10
    DoW2: Retribution is my first DoW game and really my first RTS game that isn't StarCraft. At first playing the singleplayer I didn't like the game at all. I was very confused, I was thinking "where's the base building, isn't this supposed to be an RTS?!" I continued to play it and gradually got more used to it but never loved it.

    Then I tried the multiplayer. Wow, did I like that a lot more. The more I played it the more I enjoyed it. It's such a great change from StarCraft. I think DoW2 definitely deserves more praise than it gets. After playing Retribution I must say StarCraft is overrated, it's definitely not a bad game, just hyped up too much.

    Now I definitely don't think base building RTS's should be done away with, it's always to nice to have a good selection of different types of RTS games. However, maybe Blizzard should learn a few things from Relic and make their games better from it.
    Last edited by wazups2x; 04-06-2011 at 04:20 AM.

  11. #11
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    I have all of the DOW II variants, and am currently playing Retribution. I've played Chaos since Chaos Rising, simply because I find them the easiest to play well. I focus on Chaos Lord and Khorne units/upgrades, although I was thoroughly beaten by a Plague Champion setup a while back which involved spamming of plague-related effects to the point where my fully upgraded Chaos Lord was taken out in <10 seconds purely from effect damage.

    The single player isn't really my thing but the multiplayer is amazing. Starcraft 2 is the reverse for me - I liked the varied and interesting single player but the multiplayer was confusing and every match seemed to go the same way. Rushing to build buildings and upgrades isn't really my thing, which is why DOW II appeals so much I think.

    Of all the races to play against, I have the most trouble fighting against my own race (if you can believe it). I don't know if it's my setup or my play style but it doesn't lend itself well to fighting guys who pump heretics and suicide rush them.

  12. #12
    Secondary Hivemind Nexus coldvvvave's Avatar
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    [rant]

    Quote Originally Posted by am138 View Post
    've played Chaos since Chaos Rising, simply because I find them the easiest to play well. I focus on Chaos Lord and Khorne units/upgrades, although I was thoroughly beaten by a Plague Champion setup a while back which involved spamming of plague-related effects to the point where my fully upgraded Chaos Lord was taken out in <10 seconds purely from effect damage.
    Ah, yes, Chaos, words cannot describe how I hate Chaos.

    Every single Chaos hero has an effective T1 AOE attack, one hero is unstoppable and completely unkillable, other can destroy your powerfarm in three seconds and the other one teleports and bash my ranged units to death. Plague Cloud is ridiculous, Bloodcrusher is dirt-cheap, combine that and lol baserapegg. Or if its not a PC, then Dark Flames. Or Chaos Lord inurbase, because he just don't care about turrets. It was painfull enough to 'counter' crusher with Tankbustas. Now I have to struggle with Stormtroopers, their imbecile AI and their bugged meltabomb. And then they die. All in all, balance in 1v1, guy who kills first entire enemy unit in T1 wins, but of course, IG cant kill retreating units like every single other race can until Ogryns. So, I have to go two Sentinels and push from the beginning. Thats frustrating.

    Sometimes. I hate Relic.

    [/rant]

  13. #13
    Obscure Node jackspade's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by coldvvvave View Post
    [rant]


    Ah, yes, Chaos, words cannot describe how I hate Chaos.

    Every single Chaos hero has an effective T1 AOE attack, one hero is unstoppable and completely unkillable, other can destroy your powerfarm in three seconds and the other one teleports and bash my ranged units to death. Plague Cloud is ridiculous, Bloodcrusher is dirt-cheap, combine that and lol baserapegg. Or if its not a PC, then Dark Flames. Or Chaos Lord inurbase, because he just don't care about turrets. It was painfull enough to 'counter' crusher with Tankbustas. Now I have to struggle with Stormtroopers, their imbecile AI and their bugged meltabomb. And then they die. All in all, balance in 1v1, guy who kills first entire enemy unit in T1 wins, but of course, IG cant kill retreating units like every single other race can until Ogryns. So, I have to go two Sentinels and push from the beginning. Thats frustrating.

    Sometimes. I hate Relic.

    [/rant]
    Don't complain about Chaos if you play as IG...a good player who goes double sentinel is virtually uncounterable in T1. Strongest T3 in the game too :).

  14. #14
    Secondary Hivemind Nexus coldvvvave's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by jackspade View Post
    Don't complain about Chaos if you play as IG...a good player who goes double sentinel is virtually uncounterable in T1. Strongest T3 in the game too :).
    So, I have to use a risky all-or-nothing build with godlike micro to counter no-brainer builds with no micro at all required.

    Right, I totally have no right to complain.

    Sentinel has a 12 popcap, if both manage to survive into T2, you have a 24 popcap dead weight and then they die fast to improved ranged fire, thats losing 660 req, you need to kill more than 30 heretics or 10 CSM to justify that purchase which is not going to happen if Chaos player knows what he is doing. Upgrading sent is most of the time waste of resources. Also, you probably know that Sentinel has problems with pathing, ever saw those long U-turns towards enemy? That wasn't supposed to happen, Sent just failed to backpedal, happens no matter how good your micro is, maps are just too small. now think about microing two at once as they stuck in each other. By the way, you'll be a Guard squad short for a time and your starting squad is going to be a strictly repair unit that i going to be focus fired and forced from the field. Than your Sents are worthless. And you lose all map control.

    Quote Originally Posted by jackspade View Post
    Strongest T3 in the game too
    I now have doubts you ever played IG, maybe you did in 3v3, but not 1v1.

    In more than 300 1v1 games I learned that going to t3 is a mistake as I never have enough red to use a nuke and I never have enough req to even go T3. Anyway, Leman Russ is not the strongest tank in the game, it's plasma upgrade is worthless, Armor Upgrade doesnt work( at least not in 3.14, I think), Baneblade is great, sure, but you'll never have enough resources to buy that thing unless you are winning really, really hard.

    Sure, Chaos has a weaker T3( GUO is probably worst superunit in whole game), but who needs T3 when upgraded T1 units are good enough?

  15. #15
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    I was really looking forward to DOW2 Retribution, but ended up only playing it for about 3-4 hours. I think it was mainly down to me having just finished off the single player of the original, so I was a little worn out by it. I also struggled getting a handle on the multiplayer, probably after far too much SC2 drilling a different play style into me, and the single player campaigns seemed very mediocre compared to the original (I didn't get round to Chaos Rising before Retribution arrived, so can't compare.)

    I think I might try giving it another go when I finish off with The Witcher 2. Any handy hints for newbies to the multiplayer? I only played about 10 games of the original and Retribution combined. If there are any good casts of DoW2 games that would be helpful too. I've learned so much about SC2 from watching HDStarcraft and Day9, so something similar would probably be really beneficial.

  16. #16
    Quote Originally Posted by Vandelay View Post
    I think I might try giving it another go when I finish off with The Witcher 2. Any handy hints for newbies to the multiplayer? I only played about 10 games of the original and Retribution combined. If there are any good casts of DoW2 games that would be helpful too. I've learned so much about SC2 from watching HDStarcraft and Day9, so something similar would probably be really beneficial.
    Harlequin Casts is the best place I know of to find great DoW2 casts.

  17. #17
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    I can also recommend Harlequin as a caster. He's very personable, and I've learned a ton from watching. He does some Newbie Tuesday casts that are a great start. They'll give you a great sense of the ebb and flow of a match.

    General advice from my still learning perspective? Keep your squads alive- if you're losing, or even if you know you're about to lose, hit that retreat button (X). Early on, err on the side of retreating a little too much or too early. It's much cheaper to reinforce a squad than to build a new one, and experienced squads can win you the game.

    I had some trouble early on with focusing too much on early capping, and tended to spread my squads out amongst all the points. Defeat in detail would result. You do need to do a lot of capping early, but plan a capping order for your first few squads that will allow them to come together in a short time when you encounter the enemy.

    Early game depends heavily on race and opponent, but tends to go like this: bring out 2 extra squads quickly, grab your closest power node and get 1 or 2 generators down. Get important squad upgrades and usually a piece of wargear for your hero. Get a squad with a power cost if necessary, then hit Tier 2. From there, what you get is mostly situational. You never want to delay Tier 2 too long, because all your vehicle counters are there. A fast tech by your opponent can be literally uncounterable from Tier 1.

    Oh, and don't forget your global abilities. I always do. Spend that red resource.

  18. #18
    Secondary Hivemind Nexus coldvvvave's Avatar
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    You know the community is small when you get to play against people from top-10 more or less every 10-15 games.

    Lost a game against Holyhammer( currently top guy at 1v1 ladder) as an Ork Kommando, he rolled IG Inq 2-sentinels( which is considered MOST OP THING EVER nowadays, not without a reason, when I played as Inq my stats went up significantly, now I'm somewhere in top-200), I lost one upgraded Shoota early which pretty much sealed the deal, but still I had a fighting chance, looks like he wasn't very serious( probably just decided to try this build for the lulz) and I took down both his sentinels before T2. Still I lost my powerfarm and got outteched. Only after playing against Inq I realised how OP she is and how inefficiently did I use her. Well, at least Holyhammer was nice enough not to drop a Flamestrike on my powerfarm. I'll never use Inq untill balance patch.

    Lost against Soom( second guy in Top-10 1v1), he was a ravener Alpha and killed everything with his ranged blob, I never had a chance.

    Won against SRFF( he was in top-50 before losing to me), saved replay, felt good whole day( even though I lost to him later as Knob). I was IG Commissar( yep, I do play as IG when I'm not an Ork Knob), he was a Warpspider. Managed to caught his hero while he capped a far Vpoint with me Commissar, got a pretty sync-kill. He was low on health since I booby-trapped point with catachans IED and he was paying attention elsewhere.

    Also, pretty much why I play DoW2:


  19. #19
    I wish there were more people to play with. :(

  20. #20
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    Been playing The Last Stand past couple of days and is the first time I've enjoyed a multiplayer RTS.

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