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    Secondary Hivemind Nexus Rii's Avatar
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    007

    This is the thread for all things 007. All things filmic, that is. I hear there are books (and even - eww - games) but I don't care about them and neither should you!

    Hmm, how about some (more) controversy to get us started? Most overrated film? Goldfinger. Yes, it's iconic, it's also terrible. Most underrated? Tomorrow Never Dies. China, the corporate media as a manipulative agent, and featuring the only Bond girl who's ever really managed to come across as Bond's equal. Sorry, Ms. Berry.
    Last edited by Rii; 22-12-2011 at 04:12 PM.

  2. #2
    You want controversy? How about the fact that I preferred Bond when he was a smooth talking, alcoholic, charming womaniser and I hate what they have done with the series since they tried to make it edgy and modern.

    Also, in an alternate universe Clive Owen was the new Bond, they stuck to the old formula and he was the smoothest, most badass Bond ever, only second to Sean Connery. And the universe would be a better place for it.
    "You go up to a man, and you say, "How are things going, Joe?" and he says, "Oh fine, fine couldn't be better." And you look into his eyes, and you see things really couldn't be much worse. When you get right down to it, everybody's having a perfectly lousy time of it, and I mean everybody. And the hell of it is, nothing seems to help much." - Kurt Vonnegut, Jr.

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    Quote Originally Posted by Wooly Wugga Wugga View Post
    You want controversy? How about the fact that I preferred Bond when he was a smooth talking, alcoholic, charming womaniser and I hate what they have done with the series since they tried to make it edgy and modern.
    Is this controversy? I thought general consensus was that Connery's Bond was > all. Also, I agree with this line of thinking.

    Worst Bond film? Toss up: License to Kill/Die Another Day.

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    Secondary Hivemind Nexus Rii's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Wooly Wugga Wugga View Post
    I hate what they have done with the series since they tried to make it edgy and modern.
    When was that, exactly? 1969 when Bond fell in love and suffered loss? 1974 when he starred in a comedy? 1995 when he became Sensitive New Age Bond or 2006 when he walked past the body of a woman whose painful death he'd been the indirect cause without flinching? The series has never stood still and wouldn't be nearly as interesting (or have lasted nearly so long, for that matter) if it had.

    Beyond the momentary thrills offered by each film, what's significant about 007 for me is that it's larger than the sum of its parts. Each film is, on its own merits, unremarkable, but taken together they weave a wonderfully rich tapestry that one can pore over endlessly. And its not merely their number, or even the decades over which the franchise has flourished. More than anything else it's the rigid structure and the plethora of familiar touchstones in each film that makes their dissection so rewarding.

    Some of the things I'm referring to here: the evolution of the depiction of Bond and, by extension, the masculine ideal. Similarly, the evolution of its depiction of women. Filmic evolutions and fads in style. The subjects of its plots and how they relate to real-world events, and so on. In this respect 1995's Goldeneye is probably the most fascinating of all 007 films.
    Last edited by Rii; 22-12-2011 at 05:07 PM.

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    Secondary Hivemind Nexus Tikey's Avatar
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    Tomorrow never dies is indeed quite a great film.

    I'm quite exited about the new film but I'm disappointed that it doesn't continue the story line from the previous films. I've found quite interesting that they tried to make a series of movies instead of some self contained ones.

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    Die Another Day is emperically the worst Bond film. Missed the mark in a massive way.

    Wasn't much of A View to a Kill fan either (though the theme tune was pretty good).

    Also I really enjoyed Tomorrow Never Dies and didn't realise it was considered a weaker film by many.

    As for modern edgy Bond, it worked fantastically in Casino Royale and I reckon it would have worked fine in Quantum of Solace too if they hadn't focused on the less interesting of the main Bond girls, had completely forgetable villains and had a stupid fucking hydrogen hotel in the middle of the fucking desert. If you're going for stupidity make it gloriously stupid (secret volcano base and spaceships!) not plain stupid.

    Speaking of Quantum of Solace:


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    Secondary Hivemind Nexus Voon's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Lambchops View Post
    Die Another Day is emperically the worst Bond film. Missed the mark in a massive way.

    Wasn't much of A View to a Kill fan either (though the theme tune was pretty good).

    Also I really enjoyed Tomorrow Never Dies and didn't realise it was considered a weaker film by many.

    As for modern edgy Bond, it worked fantastically in Casino Royale and I reckon it would have worked fine in Quantum of Solace too if they hadn't focused on the less interesting of the main Bond girls, had completely forgetable villains and had a stupid fucking hydrogen hotel in the middle of the fucking desert. If you're going for stupidity make it gloriously stupid (secret volcano base and spaceships!) not plain stupid.
    Though I didn't remember how good (or bad) Tomorrow Never Dies was, I agree with Casino Royale. One of the best Bond movies out there. Just not as good as From Russia with Love.

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    Secondary Hivemind Nexus Rii's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Lambchops View Post
    As for modern edgy Bond, it worked fantastically in Casino Royale and I reckon it would have worked fine in Quantum of Solace too if they hadn't focused on the less interesting of the main Bond girls, had completely forgetable villains and had a stupid fucking hydrogen hotel in the middle of the fucking desert. If you're going for stupidity make it gloriously stupid (secret volcano base and spaceships!) not plain stupid.
    I enjoyed Quantum of Solace for its post-Iraq cynicism regarding the west in general - and the United States in particular - and its role in the world. The following exchange is simply delightful:

    Bond: You know I was just wondering what South America would look like if nobody gave a damn about coke or communism. It always impressed me the way you boys would carve this place up.
    Felix:
    I'll take that as a compliment coming from a Brit.

    Bit of a change from Dr. No's "with your lack of regard for human life you must be an agent of the East!"

    But there's more to it than that. Yes, the villains and the evil that they do are prosaic, that's part of the 'grim realism' that the film aspires to. They don't make grandiose speeches from hi-tech mountain fortresses, their evil harms ordinary people and often invisibly, and they do rape women. The latter is something that crops up oddly infrequently considering the regularity with which women are held hostage by evil men in the 007 mythos. The explanation is simple enough: you can't have Bond seducing 'damaged women' - it risks coming off as exploitative. And so it had to be this film - where Bond was otherwise precluded from serious romantic dalliances by the plot - to explore previously verboten territory.

    And of course on the stylistic side there's the whole hiring-the-Bourne-guy thing, the gunbarrel sequence at the end rather than the beginning, the director's heavy-handed use of imagery, and numerous other touches of interest.
    Last edited by Rii; 23-12-2011 at 09:56 AM.

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    Secondary Hivemind Nexus Tikey's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Rii View Post
    I enjoyed Quantum of Solace for its post-Iraq cynicism regarding the west - with a double dose for America in particular - and its role in the world.
    The thought of Bond helping Evo Morales (even if it's indirectly) is still quite entertaining :D

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    Secondary Hivemind Nexus Lambchops's Avatar
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    Also I always think Adam's song is also rather excellent and only suffers from being slightly less excellent than Joe's


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    A View to a Kill isn't all terrible. I, for one, enjoyed Christopher Walken's Max Zoren, but he's involved in a plot that, frankly, is kind of a mess. Oh, and Roger Moore looks ancient throughout the entire film.

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    Tomorrow Never Dies is pretty much my least favourite Bond film. It's just the bad guy. He's a cackling, moustache twirling egomaniac, but all he does is write bad headlines? Oh no! It ruins the whole film for me. I just can't understand why Bond would be in the least bit bothered about a fucking newspaper editor when he's gone up against criminal masterminds.

    I realise that in the real world the media is extremely powerful, but as a Bond villain? I don't know about anybody else but I absolutely don't find Piers Morgan scary. Pathetic, but certainly not scary. The only saving grace in that entire film is Vincent Schiavelli's brilliant cameo. Really, he should have been the main villain.

    Having said all that, I think Timothy Dalton was a good Bond so what the fuck do I know.

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    Secondary Hivemind Nexus Xercies's Avatar
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    When I was a child I couldn't get enough of Bond, its probably every boys fantasy. Now a days I realise a lot of the early bonds don't really hold up that well, especially Roger Moores ones(They have really bad action, really bad storylines, and god awful comic release, yes southern police guy I'm looking at you) and yes I like what Casino Royale has done with it, though I do kind of want Bond to be a bit more like he used to be. Daniel Craig hasn't got enough charm or humour for me.

    Favourite one, Russia with Love, or the Ski bit from Her Majesties Secret Service I think, can't remember the rest of the film but the Ski bit is the most memorable thing.

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    Quote Originally Posted by DiamondDog View Post
    Tomorrow Never Dies is pretty much my least favourite Bond film. It's just the bad guy. He's a cackling, moustache twirling egomaniac, but all he does is write bad headlines? Oh no! It ruins the whole film for me. I just can't understand why Bond would be in the least bit bothered about a fucking newspaper editor when he's gone up against criminal masterminds.
    Did you forget all about him trying to start WW3?

    Quote Originally Posted by DiamondDog View Post
    I think Timothy Dalton was a good Bond so what the fuck do I know.
    Oh...

    Quote Originally Posted by Xercies View Post
    ...or the Ski bit from Her Majesties Secret Service I think, can't remember the rest of the film but the Ski bit is the most memorable thing.
    Honestly, for all the hate people love to give George Lazenby, On Her Majesty's Secret Service was a pretty decent Bond flick. Lazenby just had the unfortunate position of trying to follow Sean Connery's act.

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    Secondary Hivemind Nexus Rii's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Xercies View Post
    yes southern police guy I'm looking at you)
    I thought he was pretty good the second time around in The Man with the Golden Gun. Actually I thought that entire film was a rollicking barrel of fun. You just have to approach it with the right mindset. Candidate for 'most underrated' I think.
    Last edited by Rii; 22-12-2011 at 10:54 PM.

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    Agree with the earlier comment about Clive Owen was ideal for the part, however I don't think that Daniel Craig has done a bad job (my understanding is Owen turned down the role when it came his way). I thought that Casino Royale pretty entertaining for a post Bourne take on Bond. Quantum of Sausages was turgid, but mainly because the plot was all over the shop (and the finale at the Hotel was overboard). I'm sure the next film will get back on track.

    Also: -



    Great scene

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    Tomorrow Never Dies is my favourite Bond film. I'm slightly surprised someone agrees it's good!

    To me Bond is one of those things that depend on when you were born. Brosnan was the first Bond I saw, as he WAS Bond then and therefore is my favourite. Followed by Roger Moore, though Sean Connery is brilliant too. This may also be because I prefer modern films generally (the Bonds and The Italian Job are however exceptions) and thus Brosnan was the only Bond who had lots of funky gadgets yet was modern.

    Talking of gadgets, while it was nice to have a more serious Bond, the gadgets (and cars)
    a) aren't as funky and cool
    b) don't last more than a minute (seriously, destroying two Aston Martin's so quickly is heart rendering)

    As well as the poor gadgets, the new Bond doesn't have enough humour. It's there but Bond is just too hard and gritty. Bond is supposed to be suave, enticing and good with the ladies (yes, that's not in keeping with the books that much, but we're talking about the films here). That said Casino Royale was great film (though had nothing to do with the book if I recall correctly). Daniel Craig was great in it. Quantum of Solace was a bit meh.

    Die Another Day went too far though. The intro is promising, but it just goes downhill from there (with exception of Rosamund Pike, though she so should have been the Bond girl).
    Last edited by Tams80; 12-01-2012 at 08:47 PM.

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    My favourite Bond = Goldeneye, and not for the game either (I didn't own an N64). I'm not much of a fan of the series as a whole but I find Daniel Craig really hard to like, along with the new direction.

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    I love Brosnan. His first two outings were definitely his best. I loved the intro to Tomorrow Never Dies as well. It's probably my second favorite intro, after Casino Royale's.

    I love Craig as Bond as well. I have never been more pleasantly surprised with a film as I was with Casino. I went into it expecting it to suck, but feeling obligated to see it since I'm such a fan of the franchise. I was caught completely off guard by it. I loved it. On the other hand, QoS was one of the biggest letdowns of any film I've ever seen. I went into that one expecting it to be great, and it turns out it sucked worse than I had thought Casino Royale would. Honestly I could have done with only about the first and last 5 minutes of QoS (the opening car chase and Bond confronting Vesper's "boyfriend" at the end). The stuff in between was just horrible.

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    Secondary Hivemind Nexus Smashbox's Avatar
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    Best: From Russia with Love, The Spy Who Loved Me, Goldeneye, Casino Royale.

    Worst: Die Another Day, by a massive margin.

    I actually don't think Timothy Dalton was that bad, either.

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