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  1. #1

    Microsoft Flight

    Yep, flight simulator as we know it now dead, died in January 2009. But today is officially dead with Flight.


    FSX(Flight Simulator X) had the entire world, of course, not in full on detail on everything, but major airports had more detail, and only certain cities were done in full on detail. But you could expand with payware or freeware content, you could, for example, fly from say New York to Chicago and see all the airfields, and airports and cities, or say from London to Lisbon and have the same feeling, not an empty terrain devoid of anything, or just water.
    Now, if we want to do that is not possible anymore, even if they release 5 new "terrains". No more community made planes as there is no SDK. This is speculative at this point: according to leaked videos(taken down by microsoft) and community comment from beta testers, it has no ATC nor AI

    No thrid party developer with the same quality as say, LEvel-D or PMDG( http://www.precisionmanuals.com/)


    The game will be free, and will offer more content to those that use the Games for Windows Live feature, and those willing to pay small fees for new aircraft, mission packs etc...

    ...The game will feature its own marketplace, with content regulated by Microsoft. There will be no software development kit and hence no user created content. ...

    ... At launch, not everyone will have the opportunity to fly where they are. The team has decided to not try and make the whole world this time. They feel that doing smaller areas at greater quality is more worth while. As such, the current game world is just the Island of Hawaii. ...
    Source: http://flyawaysimulation.com/news/43...osoft-studios/


    Long story short, we spent a lot of time working with MS on white papers and looked at the code, gave them copies of all our products, told them how to do it right. They even used screenshots of our 1S2 Darrington in their mission dialog boxes, so they must have installed our scenery into Flight at some point, LOL!

    About March 2010 everything went quiet despite promises of new builds. Later in 2010 we were told to go away, no SDK will be shipped.

    Thanks MS, for all the fish.
    From: Thread made by ORBX developer(Highly realistic scenery, one of the best in FSX)
    http://forum.avsim.net/topic/358739-...ag/page__st__0
    http://www.orbxsystems.com/forum/top...-on-ms-flight/



    thread made by the big honcho of PMDG
    PMDG: http://forum.avsim.net/topic/358874-...hts-on-flight/

  2. #2
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    In the Beta so can't really say much, suffice it to say the response over on AVsim and Flightsim.com is almost universally unfavourable.

  3. #3
    yeah... i was reading the flyaway article, as quite happy with what I was reading until I read "the game will be free..." ... I froze, and thought "... this does NOT bode well for FS... "
    Guess what, my thought was right :(

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    This is just another part of MS's plan to destroy PC gaming. IMO they will eventually start sending out "updates" to Windows that wreck games, DirectX, etc...

    It's plainly obvious they want PC gaming gone, everything they've done over the last half decade has been essentially a kick in the nards to PC gamers. Windows 8 being a cross platform OS which is probably more focused on tablets will possibly be worse for gaming than Win 7.

    GFWL = FAIL

    MS Flight = massive FAIL - the flight sim community is the last people you want to mess with on the PC.

  5. #5
    Secondary Hivemind Nexus soldant's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by metalangel View Post
    In the Beta so can't really say much, suffice it to say the response over on AVsim and Flightsim.com is almost universally unfavourable.
    I also am in the beta, but due to some screwup with my gamer tag, I can't actually play anything. So I'm already fairly unimpressed! As a fan of MS Flight Simulator, I'm pretty disappointed with the fact that it focuses on a tiny area of the world. I've preferred MSFS to X-Plane because X-Plane's presentation is sloppy, even if it is more realistic. X-Plane's user interface is a mess, and it's more focused towards people who want a hardcore simulation or designing aircraft, MSFS was better suited to being a game that you could play for enjoyment.

    Long story short, pretty unhappy, guess my only option now is X-Plane 10.

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    If and when you manage to get it going, let me know.

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    On the beta as well and while I am bound by the nda I can say a few things about it.

    Its not a flight sim, its more like an old fashioned arcade game.
    It looks like its going have a lot of dlc for different islands and flight paths.
    It needs a gamer-tag with a gold subscription for on-line play( thought they stopped that with pc?)
    Graphics are ok to good in places.
    Sound is just awful, really awful, you will be turning the sound off with that annoying woman giving orders every few seconds ( talk about back seat drivers)

    This may be inadvertently giving a glimpse of the game for windows live future, subscription based for on-line play, plus lots of dlc.

  8. #8
    Secondary Hivemind Nexus Grizzly's Avatar
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    it has no ATC nor AI
    It is a beta.

    Anyway, I don't really understand the complaining yet. Microsoft Flight is taking the route other flight sims like Take on Helicopters are doing. And no, it is not Flight Simulator XI. But Flight Simulator X itself is already extremely good. Why create a FSXI when you can instead do this and try to innovate?

    This is just another part of MS's plan to destroy PC gaming. IMO they will eventually start sending out "updates" to Windows that wreck games, DirectX, etc...

    It's plainly obvious they want PC gaming gone, everything they've done over the last half decade has been essentially a kick in the nards to PC gamers. Windows 8 being a cross platform OS which is probably more focused on tablets will possibly be worse for gaming than Win 7.

    GFWL = FAIL

    MS Flight = massive FAIL - the flight sim community is the last people you want to mess with on the PC.
    1) If MS plan is to destroy PC gaming, why bother with Flight in the first place? Why release DX10 and DX11? Why make the XBOX 360 controller PC combatible? Your wording appears to suggest that Windows 7 was bad for gaming, but I haven't really noticed flaws with it. How would Windows 8 being more focussed on tablets ensure that PC gaming dies, especially since the Windows OS on PCs is Microsoft's major source of income (along with office)? They would be shooting themselves in the foot.
    Last edited by Grizzly; 07-01-2012 at 02:23 PM.

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    Quote Originally Posted by Grizzly View Post
    It is a beta.

    Anyway, I don't really understand the complaining yet. Microsoft Flight is taking the route other flight sims like Take on Helicopters are doing. And no, it is not Flight Simulator XI. But Flight Simulator X itself is already extremely good. Why create a FSXI when you can instead do this and try to innovate?



    1) If MS plan is to destroy PC gaming, why bother with Flight in the first place? Why release DX10 and DX11? Why make the XBOX 360 controller PC combatible? Your wording appears to suggest that Windows 7 was bad for gaming, but I haven't really noticed flaws with it. How would Windows 8 being more focussed on tablets ensure that PC gaming dies, especially since the Windows OS on PCs is Microsoft's major source of income (along with office)? They would be shooting themselves in the foot.
    Some good points there.

    Having said that I disagree on windows 8, have it installed on another system to learn it for work ( do tec support and will need to know it well)
    Windows 8 is very streamlined, to the point it feels like your on the xbox360. In fact boot up your xbox with the latest dashboard, look familiar?
    It is still beta though so nobody knows for sure how it will turn out, right now it makes vista look like a god of an operating system.

    Regarding pc gaming: Microsoft could do a lot more for pc gaming, maybe they will in the future but right now it feels like they do next to nothing. They try ideas out like aoe online, which is pretty good in my opinion. This latest flight sim could turn out to be very good, it is playable and I like it in places. Still it is beta so it is bound to change a lot. I for one hope they get rid of that annoying woman commentating and that is really my only gripe right now.

    Regarding dx10 and 11. 10 was meant to be the next big thing. Vista brought it in and due to the operating system being not the best, it didnt really take off. Plus it alienated everyone on xp.
    DX11 has a lot of cool features and while everyone goes on about tessellation there is a lot more to it than that, mostly its just far faster than dx10 at doing dx10 stuff.
    I feel that microsoft are testing out the graphics tec on dx (pc) for there next console right now and with there neglect for pc gaming it may show on there next console.

  10. #10
    Obscure Node dancanman's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by fearlessgoat View Post
    On the beta as well and while I am bound by the nda I can say a few things about it.
    Its not like "previous Microsoft" flight sims, its more like an old fashioned arcade game.
    Fixed that for you.


    Quote Originally Posted by fearlessgoat View Post
    It looks like its going have a lot of dlc for different islands and flight paths.
    ok....

    Quote Originally Posted by fearlessgoat View Post
    It needs a gamer-tag with a gold subscription for on-line play( thought they stopped that with pc?)
    Absolutely 100% incorrect. You need a basic gamertag, similar to GTA IV. It's still just as big of pain in the ass as GTA IV too. But if your going to try and skirt an NDA, you might as well tell the truth.

    Quote Originally Posted by fearlessgoat View Post
    Graphics are ok to good in places.
    Without going into detail, on most levels, it's a regression from vanilla FSX.

    Quote Originally Posted by fearlessgoat View Post
    Sound is just awful, really awful, you will be turning the sound off with that annoying woman giving orders every few seconds ( talk about back seat drivers)
    And I was thinking how nice she was to me compared to the brutal flight instructors in flight simulator 98'. Oh well. I'm quite frankly not sure what you expected from tutorial missions. Believe it or not, once you get to free flight (which you can do at any time, btw), there's not more "annoying lady"

    Quote Originally Posted by fearlessgoat View Post
    This may be inadvertently giving a glimpse of the game for windows live future, subscription based for on-line play, plus lots of dlc.
    *rolls eyes*

    Sorry for calling you out, but c'mon.
    Last edited by dancanman; 07-01-2012 at 03:40 PM. Reason: fixed quote tags

  11. #11
    The problem is that FSX uses to generate the graphics the CPU instead of GPU, when they made FSX, they predicted we would be on the 10Ghz area, so it uses multicore processors quite badly. So much so that today there are still issues in running FSX well. Other problems include tons of bugs that never got corrected, and uses preview mode of DX10, so, lots more bugs on that.
    Forgot to add: It also has issues using 64bits system, thanks to a community found fix it manages to work. It is horrible, in the middle of the flight, and you get "out of memory" message and CTD



    We were expecting a more open product, and something that could solve, at least 50% of FSX problems. But instead, we got, that...

    This is different from Take on Helicopters, because planes, by essence fly much further, and can be flown higher. Whilst Helicopters do not. They essentially fly lower, and short distances, so Take on Helicopters is right in creating a detailed city and stay there for a while.

    I couldnt do a international flight or even a regional flight in MSF.
    Last edited by talimorrigan; 07-01-2012 at 03:47 PM.

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    Quote Originally Posted by dancanman View Post
    Fixed that for you.



    ok....


    Absolutely 100% incorrect. You need a basic gamertag, similar to GTA IV. It's still just as big of pain in the ass as GTA IV too. But if your going to try and skirt an NDA, you might as well tell the truth.


    Without going into detail, on most levels, it's a regression from vanilla FSX.


    And I was thinking how nice she was to me compared to the brutal flight instructors in flight simulator 98'. Oh well. I'm quite frankly not sure what you expected from tutorial missions. Believe it or not, once you get to free flight (which you can do at any time, btw), there's not more "annoying lady"


    *rolls eyes*

    Sorry for calling you out, but c'mon.
    Dont be sorry :D

    Its just my opinion. Yes tried the free flight but had turned the sound off by that point so didn't know if she was talking or not.
    I admire you defending this game and whilst you seem to be looking for points to be argumentative, it just isn't my thing. However I will stress that I was always a gold member for xbox live and it lapsed as I was playing funny enough, otherwise I wouldn't have noticed.
    The game looks like it will have very heavy downloadable content packs, which isn't a bad thing if you want to fly around a certain location. That brings up my next point which is something you passed over, its an arcade game, not a sim. The voice acting also reflects this ( as far as I can tell as I turned it off during the tutorials). Also I must stress this is a beta not the full game, so god knows how it will turn out. For all I know I could be testing out the arcadey part of the game.
    Finally it is a good game, if you want an arcade style flyer. If you want a sim, there's other, better stuff out there, including other entry's in that very series.

    Feel free to fix any grammar errors btw ;)
    For example I am not sure if arcadey is a real word, if not I have now invented it :P

  13. #13
    Obscure Node dancanman's Avatar
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    re-reading my post, that came out way more argumentative than I meant it too, blah. Don't get me wrong, I'd much prefer a more stable version of FSX with higher max settings for monster rigs, but it seems microsoft is done with the hardcore crowd. The problem is, I really don't see flight sims as a good way to cater to the casual crowd, given the entry requirements (joystick, decent pc, etc) And to be honest, I don't know what they were thinking with some of their in-game decisions.

    RE: XBL Weird, I was able to join and host, and i've never payed for live in my life.
    So I'm not really disagreeing, just saying that anyone who honestly thought Microsoft was going to do another large-scope game was kidding themselves.

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    Secondary Hivemind Nexus Grizzly's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by fearlessgoat View Post
    Some good points there.

    Having said that I disagree on windows 8, have it installed on another system to learn it for work ( do tec support and will need to know it well)
    Windows 8 is very streamlined, to the point it feels like your on the xbox360. In fact boot up your xbox with the latest dashboard, look familiar?
    It is still beta though so nobody knows for sure how it will turn out, right now it makes vista look like a god of an operating system.
    Right. THere is one thing: The Windows 8 beta currently only includes their new interface. The retail version will contain the 'classic' (Win 7 with upgrades) interface as well.

    I did not know much about the FSX problems... It was working quite well on my 64 bit win 7 rig last time I played it.

    Also, it is worthy to note that apperently, the Flight Simulator sims were not really making a profit for microsoft (or indeed, they were not making any profit at all), but were purely made to push the limits.

  15. #15
    As soon as you add some heavy addons, like say Coolsky's MD80, to PMDG MD11, you will get a OOM status :/

    You need to be careful as well, when modding, because FSX is so sensitive that anything can cause it to crash, and finding the problem is really difficult!

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    AOE Online is a pretty good game, but the DLC is priced ridiculously and the way it has been implemented means you probably will want DLC pretty early on.

    As for Windows 8? Well as it isn't even in beta yet, conclusions can't really be drawn. At the moment it is basically Windows 7 with the Metro interface thrown in and the more advanced system operations even more hidden.

  17. #17
    Secondary Hivemind Nexus
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    Quote Originally Posted by Grizzly View Post
    Why make the XBOX 360 controller PC combatible?
    No. Why windows default controller is the XBox, and must be a XBox-like controller? I think is very mean for microsoft to push any other controller, and force XBox as the controller "we want". What If we want a generic one with more buttons, or maybe the PS3?. Microsoft abused of his position to force one controller over all the one possible. Even if you like or agree with his decission, is a abuse of position.

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    Network Hub FuriKuri!'s Avatar
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    I don't think that's quite true. They do push gamepad inputs being in the XBOX style (Green A, Red B, Blue X, Yellow Y button prompts for example) but there's nothing stopping a 3rd party controller making their buttons follow this convention.

    I've played a few games which have XBOX prompts for buttons while using a PS3 pad (and the lack of out-of-the-box support for PC on PS3 pads is solely Sony's fault, not Microsoft's). I have absolutely nothing against some much needed standardisation for this sort of thing on PC. And if a game is lacking the option to rebind gamepad buttons then that's the fault of the game, not GfWL or Microsoft.

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    Quote Originally Posted by soldant View Post
    Long story short, pretty unhappy, guess my only option now is X-Plane 10.
    What about FSX?

    I'm not sure about the finances and what the reasoning behind abandoning the FS series was, but if they had come out with FSXI I'm not sure anyone would have bought it. By FSX, the quality in playing the sim came entirely from add-ons - you basically throw out all the default content (and a good deal of the default mechanics). Unlike X-Plane where the engine works out everything from the physical model of the aircraft, most of an aircraft's flight dynamics are written into the aircraft itself - the game doesn't actually do an awful lot. If FSXI was released, would it have been worth everyone's while migrating all their content over to a marginal, incremental improvement of an engine when that engine doesn't actually do that much to the key content in the add-ons?

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    Quote Originally Posted by Capt. Eduardo del Mango View Post
    What about FSX?

    I'm not sure about the finances and what the reasoning behind abandoning the FS series was, but if they had come out with FSXI I'm not sure anyone would have bought it. By FSX, the quality in playing the sim came entirely from add-ons - you basically throw out all the default content (and a good deal of the default mechanics). Unlike X-Plane where the engine works out everything from the physical model of the aircraft, most of an aircraft's flight dynamics are written into the aircraft itself - the game doesn't actually do an awful lot. If FSXI was released, would it have been worth everyone's while migrating all their content over to a marginal, incremental improvement of an engine when that engine doesn't actually do that much to the key content in the add-ons?
    FSX was there to provide a solid framework. I bought Cardiff Airport as add-on scenery, everywhere else I depended on the included stuff. I felt like flying to Dubai - the included stuff let me. I feel like tackling VATSIM (which I haven't yet), they have a standard world with which to direct people in.

    Apart from tweaking FSX to properly work with modern systems (and the accompanying performance boost), I don't know what more they could add, but they could sure refine it! Let us get out of the aircraft and walk around! Better ground vehicles at airports! Fight against the various (or even provide support for) the AI traffic addons!

    Or they could just pull a Railworks and force everyone to update to a newer, crappier version using Steam... ;)

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