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  1. #61
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    Quote Originally Posted by deano2099 View Post
    Right, but clearly all they proved is that you can't stop the 'pre-owned threat'.

    Also, had they 'won' and somehow stamped out pre-owned games throughout the market, we'd see Gamestop shutting down and one could say "aren't the sales they lost from the pre-owned market the reason they're closing stores?"

    The fact is, neither the publishers or the retail stores are doing well right now. And they're both being forced to try and cannibalize the other's profits in order to stay afloat. So you have publishers pushing stuff like Project $10, and retail stores charging prices for pre-owned stuff that's hardly discounted from new stock.

    Because they both know that they can't solve this by charging more for games as the consumer won't tolerate another price rise. But game development costs are still going up.
    They *will* stop the "pre-owned threat", it's just a matter of time and unlike "stopping piracy" they have the power and technology to do so by simply introducing one-time use keys and Digital Distribution platforms. Both the platform owners (Microsoft, SONY, Nintendo) and the publishers/developers have nothing to gain from the "Pre-Owned" business and everything to lose (licensing costs not being paid, no money going back to the creators, losing even more market share etc.)
    It's just a longer process as they have to get people used to the idea, which they started with things like Project 10$, Uplay Passport, SONY PSN Pass etc. and will increase their efforts once the next generation of consoles comes out.

    Personally I wouldn't care much if every big chain of retail game sellers would go down tomorrow, it would suck for the people employed but they'd likely get interchangable jobs again soon after. They have no place in the creative process and could aswell be entirely replaced with Digital Distribution. By eating the winnings of the publishers/studios (while those can be and are often-times "assholes" too) they're just acting like parasites.
    Last edited by Dexter; 16-01-2012 at 01:52 AM.

  2. #62
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    Quote Originally Posted by Dexter View Post
    Personally I wouldn't care much if every big chain of retail game sellers would go down tomorrow, it would suck for the people employed but they'd likely get interchangable jobs again soon after. They have no place in the creative process and could aswell be entirely replaced with Digital Distribution. By eating the winnings of the publishers/studios (while those can be and are often-times "assholes" too) they're just acting like parasites.
    Like so many dedicated 'gamers' that do all their shopping online and so, you completely underestimate how damn important it is for publishers to have visibility for their games on the high street. It's not even like music or film, where even if the high-street vanished, there would be visibility on TV and radio and so on. I'm with you as far as wanting it to happen, but only because I want to see bottom drop out of the entire twisted, broken industry and start again from scratch.

  3. #63
    Secondary Hivemind Nexus vinraith's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Wizardry View Post
    I'm wondering if I should have any interest in this story. Has THQ ever released an RPG? Do they own any RPG intellectual properties?
    Nothing that would qualify as relevant by your somewhat rarified standards. The closest two that pop up on a search are that South Park RPG coming out this year (maybe) and Titan Quest from poor, defunct Iron Lore.

  4. #64
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    Fucking balls of god, Metro 2033: Last Light was the only other game I was looking forward to other than Stalker 2.

  5. #65
    Secondary Hivemind Nexus soldant's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Lukasz View Post
    Should they?
    excluding inflation, I wonder would it be possible to make a game and profit from it by having a budget of 1993 game. Isn't the rising costs of development fault of the industry itself by trying to outdo each other by spending more and more on bigger projects?
    As Deano said you could do that quite easily. But at the same time if all we ever did was stick with 1993 standards and tiny development costs, gaming wouldn't be advancing much. For all the good things that have come out of the indie sector, there's a lot of fairly uninspired platformers and action games which don't do anything particularly new or entertaining. I mean you're not going to get Planescape: Torment, Morrowind, Deus Ex or anything like that from the indie community. The big budget games still have their place because they can be incredibly entertaining too and have the budget to do new things.

    The sad part is that a lot of devs are too content to make Call of Duty 20: North Korean Invasion. There's definitely a market for games that don't follow that kind of brain-dead formula (look at the success of Skyrim) but they're not bloody well doing it!

  6. #66
    Secondary Hivemind Nexus The JG Man's Avatar
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    Metro will be released. It's too close to release to cancel. What's unlikely though is seeing as much advertising for it as there might have been. Post-release support may only be within a short window, however.

    EDIT: That being said, they'll be wanting to make as much from sales as possible in the next 12-18 months to try and cut down on their debts and improve sale potential. Hence why games are still due to come out for a fair bit.
    Last edited by The JG Man; 16-01-2012 at 02:18 AM.
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  7. #67
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    Quote Originally Posted by Shane View Post
    Fucking balls of god, Metro 2033: Last Light was the only other game I was looking forward to other than Stalker 2.
    4A Games isn't owned by THQ, so besides a possible lack of promotion I can't see it being affected by this in any way.

  8. #68
    Secondary Hivemind Nexus somini's Avatar
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    Sad news indeed. Medium-size publishers are always needed to keep EA and Actiblizzard in check.
    Now, analysing what they have, does anyone knows anything about Patrice Desilets(designer of AC1 and 2) that left Ubisoft Montreal to create his own studio? he was working in a new IP, but with this I guess he is free. Any chance of him returning of AC3? One can dream.
    The Saint Row IP could perfectly be bought by Rockstar. uDraw is obsolete, now that WiiU is coming. Most big IP will be picked up by someone, and nearly finished games can perfectly be published by some other publisher, perhaps.
    Worst case scenario, EA or Activision just gobbles them up and rips them apart.
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  9. #69
    Secondary Hivemind Nexus sabrage's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by somini View Post
    The Saint Row IP could perfectly be bought by Rockstar. uDraw is obsolete, now that WiiU is coming. Most big IP will be picked up by someone, and nearly finished games can perfectly be published by some other publisher, perhaps.
    Worst case scenario, EA or Activision just gobbles them up and rips them apart.
    Our worlds are all mixed up! Here:
    Worst case scenario, the Saint Row IP could be bought by Rockstar.
    Last edited by sabrage; 16-01-2012 at 04:29 AM.

  10. #70
    Secondary Hivemind Nexus Voon's Avatar
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    ......fuck

  11. #71
    Secondary Hivemind Nexus The JG Man's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by somini View Post
    does anyone knows anything about Patrice Desilets
    As far as I'm aware from reading around, he left Ubisoft/the AC team due to personal differences. It's unlikely he'd return there. I believe the brand new studio opened up with him in charge though will be quite the sale, as it seems to have some decent talent in it. Otherwise, boned.

    Most big IP will be picked up by someone, and nearly finished games can perfectly be published by some other publisher, perhaps.
    Well the idea is that any titles released before 2014* will still be released by THQ in a bid to recoop as much as possible to pay off their debt. Whether that comes to be is another thing. Some of the IPs will definitely be going up for sale though.

    *None of this rumour-telling has said when in 2014; my money is on it being either the start of the calendar year or the end/start of the economic one. If it's the latter, that means some times due out before then in early 2014 may still go ahead, if they last that long.

    EDIT: Rockstar wouldn't pick up Volition/the Saints Row IP. They have no need for it, other than to destroy it as competition, which makes no sense because there are plenty other decent sandbox games.
    EDIT 2: uDraw was obsolete with the HD versions they did for the PS360. They bombed unbelievably hard and were a significant cost. As in, it alone cost THQ numerous $ in the stocks.
    Last edited by The JG Man; 16-01-2012 at 03:59 AM.
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  12. #72
    Secondary Hivemind Nexus somini's Avatar
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    Too bad, I was hoping for a return to the roots with AC3, now that they lost another Creative Director. Let's see if Ubi doesn't fuck up another series...
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  13. #73
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    http://gamingeverything.com/13920/th...utdown-rumors/

    Is this legit?

    Off-topic: somini, saudações Lusas :)

  14. #74
    Secondary Hivemind Nexus SirKicksalot's Avatar
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    Patrice Desilets' Montreal studio is in a good position. They have around 200 employees right now, the plan was to have 500 by 2015. They have major talent there and enjoy delicious Canadian tax breaks. Anyone would like to own a studio like this. Their game is in pre-production now.

    I'm quite sure the canceled games are from the 2014 fiscal year, which for THQ starts in July 2013. That would make most sense. I guess they'll keep running on fumes for a while and meanwhile axed every game still in early stages of production plus the giant, expensive MMO (which they may shop around instead of just killing). That doesn't mean they won't go tits up in a matter of months, of course.

    Edit: and even if it turns out they're not canceled, that doesn't mean much given their financial situation.
    Last edited by SirKicksalot; 16-01-2012 at 04:31 AM.

  15. #75
    Secondary Hivemind Nexus The JG Man's Avatar
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    Oh jeez, I made an error there with that. Q2/3 2013 makes that dramatically worse!

    Anyhow. Gamasutra posted on Twitter:
    THQ has not cancelled its 2014 lineup and has not made any decisions regarding the planned MMO.
    The phrasing on that is weird. Surely, if the MMO was fine, just say so? Maybe I'm reading too much into that?

    Kotaku have been given some PR spiel by THQ. Quoted:
    THQ has not cancelled its 2014 line-up, and has not made any decisions regarding the planned MMO. As part of the ongoing review of our business, we have made decisions to ensure that the company is strategically addressing the most attractive markets. As we have previously announced, we have dramatically reduced our commitment to the kids' boxed games sector which leads to a significantly more focused release schedule moving forward. Our slate for calendar 2012 and beyond is focused on high-quality core games and continues to build our digital platform and business. We are excited for our pipeline of original and high-quality content along with our relationships with some of the best talent in the industry.Additionally, we are thrilled with the great performance of Saints Row: The Third, which on a like for like period in North America has tripled in sell-through from Saints Row 2. In addition, WWE '12's worldwide sell-through sales are up almost 40% year-over-year for the same sales period with fewer platforms. According to NPD, for the month of December and the 2011 year, THQ was the #5 publisher overall, #4 third party, with reported sell through growing over 18% in a market that was down almost 6%. And coming up next, we have two great titles for the first half of the year including UFC Undisputed 3 and Darksiders 2.
    So perhaps this rumour was, just that. That being said, THQ are not out of the woods yet. They still have a shocking stock rating that needs to be addressed badly. This could simply be words to assuage investor fears whilst they shit bricks trying to work out what to do next.

    EDIT: Oh, and it seems like they may be trying to sell the WH MMO. Sources speaking to GamesIndustry.biz have suggested Dark Millennium Online, which was first announced in 2007, is currently being offered for sale to other companies.
    Last edited by The JG Man; 16-01-2012 at 04:40 AM.
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  16. #76
    Secondary Hivemind Nexus coldvvvave's Avatar
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    Isn't it a good time for Relic to buy the Homeworld ip? Unless they did already( I'm pretty sure I remember reading something about that last year).

  17. #77
    Secondary Hivemind Nexus Kadayi's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Wizardry View Post
    I do.10char
    *gets popcorn*
    *pulls up chair*

    Go ahead Steven Morrissey, tell us all about how Steam isn't profitable for Valve. I'm fascinated to hear.
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  18. #78
    Secondary Hivemind Nexus The JG Man's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by coldvvvave View Post
    Isn't it a good time for Relic to buy the Homeworld ip? Unless they did already( I'm pretty sure I remember reading something about that last year).
    Well I had another look around and...I can't tell. According to Wikipedia, Relic obtained the IP back from Vivendi, but all the sources for material I can find on that matter suggest that it was THQ who acquired it (pretty depressing that that was at least 4 years ago and nothing was done with it, but still) for Relic to use. From what I can tell, THQ still owns the IP, not Relic. That being said, if a sale did go ahead, it is not totally unreasonable to suggest that THQ could 'throw in' the IP with Relic.

    I'm not certain though. It is very possible the rights were given directly to Relic.
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  19. #79
    Network Hub thesisko's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Kadayi View Post
    *gets popcorn*
    *pulls up chair*

    Go ahead Steven Morrissey, tell us all about how Steam isn't profitable for Valve. I'm fascinated to hear.
    You used a double negative in your post. Wizardry doubts that Steam is losing money.

  20. #80
    Secondary Hivemind Nexus Althea's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Lukasz View Post
    Deep Silver and Kalypso are small guns compared to 2k, Ubi, EA, Activision. They do not have millions of dollars, very diverse range of products, capability to target every part of the market.
    Deep Silver do have a diverse range of products, and quite a lot of market prominence in the US and EU. Whilst only a very few titles (Dead Island) will get massive marketing campaigns, they generally enter the market with little fanfare. Koch Media, the company who owns Deep Silver, apparently had 337m Euros in 2009. As far as I'm aware, this has only gone up. I don't know how well Kalypso are doing, but I've not heard reports anything is amiss.

    Quote Originally Posted by Kadayi View Post
    Sony's game division is pretty much built around supporting their own hardware. There's little incentive for them to outlay for developers who atypically work on titles for other platforms, because the audience for those titles tends to lie outside of their PS3 user base (releasing Saints Row 4 exclusively on PS3 wins no one any favours).
    I'm not sure what you're trying to say here. Are you saying PS3 gamers are different to 360 gamers? Saints Row 4 exclusivity might not happen, but it happened for the first title on the 360. The PS3 is also getting an exclusive title from Rockstar (Agent). Still, they have SOE (Sony Online Entertainment) who deal with EverQuest, EverQuest 2, Free Realms, Clone Wars Adventures and some other MMO titles. They're not exactly doing badly there. Microsoft Game Studios is the exact same thing for the 360, but again, they hold parts of the market and get millions of sales from certain IPs.

    Quote Originally Posted by Kadayi View Post
    Valve are a developer, not a publisher (and have shown little inclination to become one despite the success of steam).
    Valve are a publisher - they self-publish all of their titles, with EA being the retail distributor (and had porting duties for the PS3 version of The Orange Box) through the EA Partners programme. Valve are simultaneously a publisher and a developer, but largely they only publish their own in-house titles or ones done in conjunction with the mod community.

    Quote Originally Posted by Kadayi View Post
    Also I'd go with Lukasz assessment of Paradox. I like me some M&B Warband as much as the next man, but they are a very small operationn that work within certain limitations catering to a particular end of the market. They've been very successful at it, but they're not in a position to bankroll any of THQs AAA studios through an 18 month cycle plus manage distribution and marketing without enormous financial risk of their own.
    I'm not suggesting they're going to bankroll anyone, simply that they're doing very well.

    My point was this - THQ dropping out of the market will make a few percent difference in the size of the market that publishers have at most. Even if EA and Activision ended up being the last two major AAA publishers, they still wouldn't have a 50/50 share of the market, or anything close to that, because of the sheer number of middle-list publishers around. Kalypso, Deep Silver, Paradox and so on - they will all have their share of the market, whether it's as broad as Deep Silver or as specialised and niche as Paradox.

    Quote Originally Posted by arathain View Post
    Althea, I'm a little confused about your stance on DoW2: Retribution; while there has been quite a bit of DLC it has been mostly cosmetic, entirely optional, and judging by the forums and the opponents I meet online, rather popular.

    I have purchased precisely none of it, and still play regularly. What is the issue?
    Only some of it is cosmetic - there's five £5 skin packs (Word Bearers, Death Korps, Ultramarines, Dark Angels, Craftworld Ulthwe), six wargear packs for The Last Stand, another six for campaign and there's also the Tau Commander for a whopping £6.50. Is it all entirely optional? Yes, like DLC generally is. I find the pricing absolutely abhorrent, though, considering what you get. £5 for a bunch of skins/tweaked models? Really, THQ? Really? £6.50 for a single commander for a single game mode, really? £1 for a couple of items for a single race for campaign mode? Jeez. The pricing is completely ridiculous, and there's a lot of it around. My problem is that THQ thought it a great idea to exploit the game for DLC and then give it an inflated price. According to Steam, the price for all of the DLC - if bought separately - is just shy of £50. £50 for one playable unit, some skins, and a host of weapons. Do you not see why it's so ridiculous?

    Space Marine is on £17.20 for a couple of skin packs, some weapons and a tweaked Exterminatus game mode, which itself is £6.50. Again, pretty much all optional, but still inflated for what it is.

    And then there's Saints Row the Third. £22 of DLC so far, still much, much more to come.


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