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  1. #41
    Network Hub siegarettes's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Spacewalk View Post
    I've seen a few PC ports of arcade games on the shelves back in the nineties along with shareware standards like Tyrian which everyone mentions and the less mentioned Raptor and DemonStar. That's probably more along the lines that you want. Darius Gaiden, G. Darius, In the Hunt, Raiden II and Galactic Attack in some places for budget prices too but if you get interested in those now you're going to need a degree in archaeology if you're going to unearth any of them but there has to be a few copies left somewhere. If I had to make a choice I'd probably go for either of the Darius games because I get a raging stiffy whenever I look at the ship design. I guess it's emulation to the rescue again.


    This is solid advice. Don't be put off by all of those bullets it's an easier game than it looks, easier than Gigawing at least which is its closest neighbour.
    Demonstar and Raptor are both great. Demonstar gives off a bit of Raiden and the upgrade system of Raptor is quite compelling. As I said, I love the Darius games. The aquatic based ships are serious business. I'd actually take a look at Metal Black while you are at it, shares a lot of elements with the later games. Laser dueling with bosses and aquatic ships:



    Mars Matrix is also solid. Play it with a friend and you can cover each other's asses with the vortex bombs.

  2. #42
    Network Hub siegarettes's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Roufuss View Post

    The problem with Cave is every time they've built momentum in the west and introduced a new generation to shmups, they've dropped the ball keeping it rolling. They had the potential to reignite the genre and, imo, were the genre's last great hope, but they squandered it.
    I've gone to a few anime conventions and its really disappointing when they have import copies of CAVE shooters but they are region locked. In addition, I'd like to get Deathsmiles II, but the art style isn't as great as the first and I'm pretty sure its untranslated, at least dialogue-wise on the Games on Demand for the Xbox. I bought the first Deathsmiles for 30 and honestly I could buy a physical import copy for about the same price they are charging for GoD, which is really off putting.

    Hell, I'd love DoDonPachi on something other than my iPod. I mean, the port is good an all, but I prefer a big screen with a gamepad. That and the game always depletes my battery very fast.

  3. #43
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    This information is really useful..

  4. #44
    Secondary Hivemind Nexus DaftPunk's Avatar
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    Ah i though we're going to talk about pc shooters,as FPS/TPS.. xP

  5. #45
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    WUT! No Jets'n'Guns Gold? It has everything: good graphics, fast gameplay, a bazillion weapons, HUGE laser beams, and a kickass soundtrack.

  6. #46
    Network Hub Memph's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Birdman Tribe Leader View Post
    This is how I feel about shmups as well. I also find having a million pink bullets on the screen really aesthetically displeasing and not fun.

    Can anyone recommend shmups not of the "bullet hell" variety? Ones from the 90s, especially.
    Yup, same thing here. To me it feels like i'm playing more defensively than offensively, having to cower in a corner and hit my special whenever the screen got too full of crap. This is the only way i could get anywhere in Jamestown's hard mode and it got old fast.

    Really good shmups i can recommend not of the trillion pink dot variety:

    Blazing Star
    Pulstar
    Biohazard Battle - megadrive/genesis title. available on steam. the other 2 are neogeo titles so you'd need some Rod/m and Emu. (sod it i can't do strikethroughs)

    Bytheby, how in blazes did a shmup thread get to 3 pages with no mention of Metal Slug? Sure it's not all shaceshippery, but I don't think much pixel art and animation has ever been more beautifully done than in that series. It just drips with style and character. And RAWKET LAWNCHER!
    Last edited by Memph; 23-01-2012 at 01:30 PM.

  7. #47
    Secondary Hivemind Nexus sabrage's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Memph View Post
    Bytheby, how in blazes did a shmup thread get to 3 pages with no mention of Metal Slug? Sure it's not all shaceshippery, but I don't think much pixel art and animation has ever been more beautifully done than in that series. It just drips with style and character. And RAWKET LAWNCHER!
    Well, it did start as a PC shmupdiscussion, but I think we pretty much covered everything of note and moved on to MAME/Console shmups. And I hate talking about Neo-Geo games because it reminds me of how damn badly I want a CMVS, and that abominable price makes me sad..

    Anyways, I just downloaded Exed Exes/Attack of the Savage Bees. Just listen to that soundtrack!
    Last edited by sabrage; 25-01-2012 at 07:34 AM.

  8. #48
    Lesser Hivemind Node TailSwallower's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by siegarettes View Post
    Demonstar and Raptor are both great.
    I grabbed Raptor from GOG as soon as they released it because I had fond memories of playing the shareware section as a kid. Found it too hard though, and not in a fun way - got to the point where I just couldn't make enough money on the missions to kit myself out well enough to be able to defeat the bosses at the end.

    Any tips for me?

    Other than that, really enjoyed Jamestown, thought Really Big Sky was beautiful and great fun, got Tyrion 2000 free from GOG too, but tired of it after a couple of hours, and... that about sums up my SHMUP experience I think.

    Where do games like Geometry Wars and Scoregasm come into it? They play like shmups in a lot of ways, but the limited arenas also mean they play very differently.

    Are the 3D-graphics shmups taking off in a big way? Seems to me that if RBS is anything to go by, they need better systems to run on than you would expect, and I wouldn't be surprised if a lot of people got put off by the lag when there are a lot of things going on on screen. RBS had major performance issues - this was on a laptop that runs New Vegas, Starcraft II, Deus Ex: HR, etc at medium-to-high settings just fine. Could be the fact that it's an indie game though, and might not be optimized as much as a game from a bigger/more-experienced team.
    Last edited by TailSwallower; 23-01-2012 at 03:44 PM.
    weekendwarrio.rs - We've got more games than time...

  9. #49
    Secondary Hivemind Nexus sabrage's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by TailSwallower View Post
    Are the 3D-graphics shmups taking off in a big way?
    There's always Einhander, the best game Square ever made. Guaranteed not to tax your system.

    Here's the first half of a great (if somewhat indulgent) review:
    Last edited by sabrage; 23-01-2012 at 03:52 PM.

  10. #50
    Lesser Hivemind Node squareking's Avatar
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    Glad to see this thread's taking off. BulletMagnet's racketboy post is super comprehensive; I don't think I'll finish the OP the way I wanted, so just refer to his post.

    @ siegarettes: Hitogata Happa is an odd one. Each character or "doll" has a radically different playstyle/mechanic for earning max points. Confusing but a blast to figure out. Also, if you're a fan of Metal Black, check out Border Down on the Dreamcast.

    @ Caleb: Euroshmup alert! Nah, it's not bad at all. I wouldn't go out of my way to play it, but it's decent.

    @ Memph: MS is technically a run & gun and/or platformer, similar to Contra or Turrican or what have you, though there are very similar mechanics in the end. MS is one of my favorite series ever.

    @ TailSwallower: Geometry Wars and Scoregasm are shooters of the twin-stick or arena variety, a la Robotron and others. It's kind of a shmup and kind of not, similar in my mind to Tempest.

    As for 3D graphics shmups, they're certainly out there, though bullets are generally rendered in 2D and made to fit within the style, as in Ikaruga. I'm trying to think of a fully-polygonal shooter and I'm coming up blank, but I know some exist. I think RBS has some additional and procedural eyecandy effects going on, which might explain the slowdown. Another thing to mention -- many of these games will simulate hardware slowdown in rough/bullet-heavy areas. Arcade PCBs of old often couldn't do the calculations quickly enough for so much crap on-screen at once. The slowdown actually helps the player navigate through the bullet torrent, so it's a pretty neat mechanic.

    @ Sabrage: Exed Exes!
    Last edited by squareking; 23-01-2012 at 06:43 PM.
    steam


  11. #51
    Lesser Hivemind Node TailSwallower's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by squareking View Post
    Another thing to mention -- many of these games will simulate hardware slowdown in rough/bullet-heavy areas. Arcade PCBs of old often couldn't do the calculations quickly enough for so much crap on-screen at once. The slowdown actually helps the player navigate through the bullet torrent, so it's a pretty neat mechanic.
    Whilst it certainly makes sense (and has even helped me pull through some tough fights [including in Jamestown on my little netbook]), it still seems strange, and I can't help but be irked by it. Seems like there should be better or more elegant ways to deal with, either by reducing the amount of stuff allowed on screen at one time, or having the slowdown be a power-up or special weapon.
    But, I'm not a hardcore and/or oldschool SHMUPER and never would have even thought the slow down was deliberate and also a reference to "Arcade PCBs of old", so I'm not the right person to be listening to.
    Last edited by TailSwallower; 23-01-2012 at 09:52 PM.
    weekendwarrio.rs - We've got more games than time...

  12. #52
    Lesser Hivemind Node Spacewalk's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by siegarettes View Post
    I'd actually take a look at Metal Black while you are at it, shares a lot of elements with the later games. Laser dueling with bosses and aquatic ships:

    It's on Taito Legends 2 (also on PC!). It's pretty swell though I wish that there was a way to skip those awkward bonus stages. They are just awkward. Darius Gaiden and Galactic Attack (as RayForce) are on there too although if you've only got it on the PS2 like I do the latter is replaced by Ray Storm. At least we got G Darius as a bonus to make up for it.

  13. #53
    Lesser Hivemind Node squareking's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Birdman Tribe Leader View Post
    This is how I feel about shmups as well. I also find having a million pink bullets on the screen really aesthetically displeasing and not fun. But I do love intricate pixel art of space and I enjoy upgrading a ship.

    Can anyone recommend shmups not of the "bullet hell" variety? Ones from the 90s, especially.
    The majority of shooters in this era you'll find in arcades or consoles, so if you're OK with emulation or consolification, I have some recs.

    Arcade:

    Twin Cobra II
    V-V -- aka V-Five or Grind Stormer (although this is more proto-modern bullet hell, it doesn't get too wild)
    Truxton -- not many bullets on screen, but enemies and projectiles are fast
    Raiden series -- snipers!
    Air Gallet
    Star Soldier series
    Sexy Parodius
    Xexex

    PS2/PS1:

    Gradius V
    R-Type Delta and Final
    Einhander
    Darius series (via Taito collections) and Darius G
    In The Hunt
    steam


  14. #54
    Network Hub siegarettes's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Memph View Post
    Bytheby, how in blazes did a shmup thread get to 3 pages with no mention of Metal Slug? Sure it's not all shaceshippery, but I don't think much pixel art and animation has ever been more beautifully done than in that series. It just drips with style and character. And RAWKET LAWNCHER!
    I guess its more of the run n gun variety and doesn't immediately spring to mind in this context. But the game is gold. Detailed pixel art, expressive animation, and gun crates full of humor.

    HEAVY MACHINE GUN! ION LIZARD!

    Don't forget about the part where you turn into a zombie and your grenades become streams of bloody projectile vomit.

    Quote Originally Posted by Spacewalk View Post
    It's on Taito Legends 2 (also on PC!). It's pretty swell though I wish that there was a way to skip those awkward bonus stages. They are just awkward. Darius Gaiden and Galactic Attack (as RayForce) are on there too although if you've only got it on the PS2 like I do the latter is replaced by Ray Storm. At least we got G Darius as a bonus to make up for it.
    That's actually how I've played it! You have no idea how jealous I am that the PS2 has G Darius. Contemplating buying another copy just because of that. Its not the same as playing it on an emulator (okay technically its exactly the same, but you get what I mean.)

    Scoregasm, Jamestown and Hirogatta Happa all have incredibly scoring systems. Once you realize how awesome the insane risk taking is rewarded you can't help but take stupid risks and get yourself killed in the process.

    For example, in Hirogatta Happa there is a "zone of control" around every enemy, even bosses. If you get in close it activates and slows down all bullets in the area. Then when the enemy is destroyed all the bullets become gems that reward you with score. So basically, by getting in point blank range you can cripple opponents and score big.

  15. #55
    Secondary Hivemind Nexus sabrage's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by squareking View Post
    @ Sabrage: Exed Exes!
    Oops, fixed it now.

  16. #56
    Lesser Hivemind Node squareking's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by sabrage View Post
    Oops, fixed it now.
    Did I point out something wrong? I didn't even notice. I was just exclaiming the name of an indisputably bonkers-awesome game.
    steam


  17. #57
    Secondary Hivemind Nexus sabrage's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by squareking View Post
    Did I point out something wrong? I didn't even notice. I was just exclaiming the name of an indisputably bonkers-awesome game.
    I originally put "Exed Eyes." Awesome game indeed though.

  18. #58
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    Quote Originally Posted by siegarettes View Post
    I've gone to a few anime conventions and its really disappointing when they have import copies of CAVE shooters but they are region locked. In addition, I'd like to get Deathsmiles II, but the art style isn't as great as the first and I'm pretty sure its untranslated, at least dialogue-wise on the Games on Demand for the Xbox. I bought the first Deathsmiles for 30 and honestly I could buy a physical import copy for about the same price they are charging for GoD, which is really off putting.

    Hell, I'd love DoDonPachi on something other than my iPod. I mean, the port is good an all, but I prefer a big screen with a gamepad. That and the game always depletes my battery very fast.
    I don't know which region you're in, but if you're in the US those Cave shooters they are selling might be region free. Here is the whole list of region free shooters for the 360:

    ESPGaluda 2
    Mushihimesame Futari
    Mochi Mochi Pork / Pink Sweets
    Dodonpachi Resurrection -- But you need to get the European one by Rising Star games. Its only like $30 if you buy it from a European website as its a budget release. Don't get it from an import store like NCSX as they are overcharging a ton for it.

    Other than Mochi Mochi, all of the other games are $30 in Japan (er... but prices seem to be going up, upon double checking, as a lot of them are now going out of print) as they have been re-released as a Platinum Hits.

    And to contribute to the thread, while its not on the PC Rayman Origins had some pretty awesome shmup levels... entire levels dedicated to flying on a mosquito's back in levels patterned a lot like Gradius.
    Last edited by Roufuss; 25-01-2012 at 05:43 PM.

  19. #59
    Network Hub siegarettes's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Roufuss View Post
    I don't know which region you're in, but if you're in the US those Cave shooters they are selling might be region free. Here is the whole list of region free shooters for the 360:

    ESPGaluda 2
    Mushihimesame Futari
    Mochi Mochi Pork / Pink Sweets
    Dodonpachi Resurrection -- But you need to get the European one by Rising Star games. Its only like $30 if you buy it from a European website as its a budget release. Don't get it from an import store like NCSX as they are overcharging a ton for it.

    Other than Mochi Mochi, all of the other games are $30 in Japan (er... but prices seem to be going up, upon double checking, as a lot of them are now going out of print) as they have been re-released as a Platinum Hits.

    And to contribute to the thread, while its not on the PC Rayman Origins had some pretty awesome shmup levels... entire levels dedicated to flying on a mosquito's back in levels patterned a lot like Gradius.
    That's pretty cool. With shipping however the cost does get up there.

    And yea, I played the Rayman demo and the shooting sections were pretty Gradius, right down to bonuses coming out with you shoot a row of enemies.

  20. #60
    Secondary Hivemind Nexus sabrage's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Roufuss View Post
    And to contribute to the thread, while its not on the PC Rayman Origins had some pretty awesome shmup levels... entire levels dedicated to flying on a mosquito's back in levels patterned a lot like Gradius.
    Wow, next time I see this game at $20 I might not be able to resist.

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